-and even though you often fall-back on this,
It turns-out that others value lower non-linear distortion and IMD.
So yeah, got it. ..and clearly I don't agree.
Besides, Earl's study on this wasn't exactly varied.
Moreover, when he dismisses this aspect - it's usually in context with his own designs (efficient with waveguides and compression drivers) that have overall low non-linear distortion and IMD: particularly with advancing spl.
and more recent:
Note that all are on test baffles that are overall much larger and not prone to diffraction problems typical for common monitor boxes. This is where the excellent linearity of the driver can be disadvantageous when looking for a driver that will have a flat response on a more common loudspeaker baffle when used broad-band and specifically NOT wanting electronic compensation.
ScanSpeak 10F/8424G00 | HiFiCompass
ScanSpeak 10F/4424G00 | HiFiCompass
5F8422T01-10F8414G10
Note that all are on test baffles that are overall much larger and not prone to diffraction problems typical for common monitor boxes. This is where the excellent linearity of the driver can be disadvantageous when looking for a driver that will have a flat response on a more common loudspeaker baffle when used broad-band and specifically NOT wanting electronic compensation.
ScanSpeak 10F/8424G00 | HiFiCompass
ScanSpeak 10F/4424G00 | HiFiCompass
5F8422T01-10F8414G10
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Since my previous post was removed.
It's worth the time.
Posts claiming that it is not worth the time - really don't respect the time others go into posting.
You've said the driver was "quite colored" (linearity deviation) and that they aren't "matched well" (ie. they suffer from poor manufacturing quality and are unusable as a stereo pair). These are both reasonably objective qualities that could easily be verified with proper measurements.
I've provided at least some evidence of their linearity (even if it was a cherry-picked source), and that at least their 3" measures well from an independent source. This is contrary to "quite colored".
..and let's add to that:
Here is a similar TB 4" but with an inferior motor:
TB SPEAKERS W4-2142 (Full-range 4", 8 Ohm, 50 Wmax)
Again, pretty linear up to almost 4 kHz, and not bad up to 6.5 kHz. Any given axis above this will determine if linearity continues. (..presumably 10 degrees of-axis will give a better response at higher freq.s.)
Moreover when someone claims a driver is colored, it's rarely at the highest octaves as we have here, instead a coloration suggests substantially inferior linearity within most reproduced source's fundamental bandwidth: as in 100 Hz to 3 kHz.
HOWEVER, you have noted that you used them on a Decware DNA horn, and presumably without any filter to correct for the non-linearity of the that particular cabinet (which wasn't designed for the TB driver).
I'd consider a result in a similar cabinet to in fact: be colored, lacking good linearity. Maybe that's what has given you this impression?
We don't know though, because you simply can't spend the time while spending a comparatively prodigious amount of time posting on this forum.
So then, is this post more to your (or some other mod's) liking?
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It may be worth your time, send me the token i am asking and you can test them. With all the rehab i am doing i am not getting my work done in a timely manner, to waste something i have already set aside is just stupid. I did measure the T/S which are not that close. That alone is enuff for me to rejectthem from consideration.
My opinion, take it for what it is worth.
And trying to pigeon hole “coloured” into a metric based on linearity (i assume you essentially mean FR) is very short-sighted.
You are making a whole lot of assumptions there that would mean you have access to what that listener’s ear/brain perceives.
You have said a lot of words, but not said much.
dave
It seems soBut measurements could be misinterpreted ....
So much easier to just talk about it without anything to back it up.
Hmm, I'd say you've just said a "lot of words": spending a fair amount of time on this post alone.
This isn't a matter dredging-up something you've set aside, rather it's providing some objective evidence to your claims. If you really didn't want to discuss something you've set aside, you shouldn't have made the comment.
The T/S parameters being not "close"? In what respect, and how?
I've tested drivers with Dayton's DAT's over the years and they rarely test as described in the spec. sheet - usually Fs (being higher), Qe (being higher), Sensitivity (being lower), and Qm (being lower); in that order of typical results even after some "burn-in". Not close in that respect?
Or perhaps it's that they didn't have similar spec.s between drivers? If so, what was at least the single-most prominent glaring fault between the driver's results? ..and yes, with just a modicum of detail that anyone can say "sure, that's a problem".
Or maybe in some other respect?
..and now you want to debate the general meaning of colored sound?
I'm not short-sighted on this, it's far-and-away describing non-linearity of the driver's freq. response. IF that's not the intent, surely the person describing it as "colored" would at least take a very brief amount of time to describe this novel new definition and how it applies to the discussed driver. But no, apparently you'd rather obfuscate what you exactly mean by suggesting I'm a fool for making such an absurdly reasonable assumption.
As, for what I've said:
1. I'm asking for some sort of reasonable objective evidence to your claims.
2. I've provided some evidence of the alternative. I'm not saying it's great evidence, but at least it's something.
BTW, though utterly subjective evidence: there didn't seem to be a lot of buyer's remorse in the comments section for that driver at Partsexpress. Usually you'll find more negative comments for any given driver. I rather liked the "pretentiously expensive" comment, given the price for the 3" is half that of the 4" I'd say it was spot-on. The "initial distort when playing loud" comment could suggest a problem (with perhaps the listener just becoming accustomed to it to some degree), or it could have some basis in reality with a spider that needs a lot of work-in (..I actually experienced something similar to that with the Fostex ESR's, both lower freq. compression from near zero excursion (very stiff spider initially) and a whizer that was so stiff that the treble response exhibited more bandwidth-exaggerated-hash (broader band peaks and nulls) - almost as if it was coated with some sort of "stiff" compound, and that aspect took a LOT more time to settle-out to a more averaged response, though it's still pretty "ragged" on the top).
Tang Band W4-1879 4" Full-Range Driver
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I am really late into conversation, but RS100-8 especially and Founteks with the alluminum cone by its sound is very very different from the other drivers. It may be because the ringing of the cone or by metal material properties. My small suggestion would be to divide speaker into paper/metal/other by their cone material - the sound differs a lot.
The others which may be of some interrest: FRS8-8 - the sound somehow reminds cheap BT boomboxes..., PS95-8 - very pronounced highs, crisp and detailed, both FaitalPRO 3'' - they have much much more punch than its written in their specification.
The others which may be of some interrest: FRS8-8 - the sound somehow reminds cheap BT boomboxes..., PS95-8 - very pronounced highs, crisp and detailed, both FaitalPRO 3'' - they have much much more punch than its written in their specification.
Exactly.
My vote would be for paper/coated paper. And... the sound should be "cheap" if the task is to replicate everyone listenning setup. 90% of the music listenning folks for everyday use simple BT speakers with 2W chineese designed driver. The drivers mentioned in this thread are 10x head and shoulders above them.
Another thing: also not forget people who listen music in cars - you would not believe how much sound differs between different OEM setups. From my current experience 2017 and 2018 Volvo and VW, both in the same car size class, with basic audio setup, sound so SO much different.
It’s a strange process for we mix engineers and Mastering engineers have it tough too.....they have to Master the tracks with multiple versions for all the different Codecs used by the streaming services.....a relatively recent but profound change in how we receive music.
For mix engineers, the mix has to translate to as many different systems and devices as possible as well as mono. Of course, how we approach it is also dependent on the genre and where sonic sacrifices can be made from one device to another. But yes, every track has to pass the ‘drive to work’ test for me.....that’s fresh ears and a deep listen, then into the studio for any changes while the experience is still fresh in my mind.
For mix engineers, the mix has to translate to as many different systems and devices as possible as well as mono. Of course, how we approach it is also dependent on the genre and where sonic sacrifices can be made from one device to another. But yes, every track has to pass the ‘drive to work’ test for me.....that’s fresh ears and a deep listen, then into the studio for any changes while the experience is still fresh in my mind.
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Thanks.
Something objectively useful that shows variance and quality control problems.
It could be that there were two different "runs" in the production. The tested 82 Hz is remarkably similar to the W4-2142's tested 85 Hz vs 60 Hz spec..
TB SPEAKERS W4-2142 (Full-range 4", 8 Ohm, 50 Wmax)
I'd have sent that one back to the supplier (..but I'm guessing return-shipping is a problem in this case, and also a problem with trying to resell them).
So I went off the reservation a bit and ordered a set of Tang Band W5-2143 Saturday. They should be here tomorrow and i’ll run them through a breakin cycle and post measurements afterwards.
I’m gonna start with the stand alone Auratone mixcube format.....small sealed box. May go with an IKEA bowl sphere if the edge diffraction looks rough.
I’m gonna start with the stand alone Auratone mixcube format.....small sealed box. May go with an IKEA bowl sphere if the edge diffraction looks rough.
Agreed .........the response on that driver of exceptional for the money and Visaton has a keen ear for developing full range drivers....the B200 is a legend across the pond.
User testimonials, 3rd Party measures and Tang Band pedigree were enough to give the 2143 a spin. If they loose, I’m sure I can recoup enough of the initial investment with a member here or over on Tech Talk.
VISATON B80-8 (Extended-range 3.3", 8 Ohm, 50 Wmax)
It's not great as far as low freq. extension is concerned, so best above 600 Hz and not bad above 300 Hz. It's also got a fair bit of pressure loss off-axis in those last 2 octaves at the top.
On the other hand it does have that increase in pressure 1-2.5 kHz that makes it much easier to get a flat response on-baffle.
It's not great as far as low freq. extension is concerned, so best above 600 Hz and not bad above 300 Hz. It's also got a fair bit of pressure loss off-axis in those last 2 octaves at the top.
On the other hand it does have that increase in pressure 1-2.5 kHz that makes it much easier to get a flat response on-baffle.
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..apparently they still sell them (..though I'm sure at quite a price-hike):
a3 -
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/296-220-audience-a3-specifications-46291.pdf
https://hfc-fs.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/audience-a3s2-16-performance_-graph.jpg
a3 -
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/296-220-audience-a3-specifications-46291.pdf
https://hfc-fs.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/audience-a3s2-16-performance_-graph.jpg