Help on Karlsonator resize
I'd like to ask for recommendation on Karlsonator resize. The task is to build speakers for a small rectangular library room (ca 12qm ~ 130sqft) fitted all around the walls with Ikea Billy bookcases. The boxes should neatly fit into two narrow corner bookcases directed 45degrees to the center. Preferred music genre is jazz, vocal, instrumental with low to moderate SPL.
The available space in each corner bookcase is W=360mm(14 1/8''), D=260mm (10 1/4''), H is flexible as the shelves can be moved. The boxes could be placed on ear level while sitting. Currently there are MAGNAT Monitor Supreme 200s lying down in the shelves which are not bad but I wonder if better result could be achieved with mini Karlsonator with appropriate full range driver(s)? Or would some folded TABAQ be a better option? Foam core built is possible.
The idea is to use the available space for BEST POSSIBLE sound quality and bass extension, no sub, enough amp power is available (IcePower 125ASX2). It should be a definitive solution so the driver cost (to reasonable extent ;-) is a no brainer, high sound quality is priority. Non-exotic EU available drivers (Fostex, Peerless, Monacor, Visaton, ...) are preferred ;-). Any ideas?
I'd like to ask for recommendation on Karlsonator resize. The task is to build speakers for a small rectangular library room (ca 12qm ~ 130sqft) fitted all around the walls with Ikea Billy bookcases. The boxes should neatly fit into two narrow corner bookcases directed 45degrees to the center. Preferred music genre is jazz, vocal, instrumental with low to moderate SPL.
The available space in each corner bookcase is W=360mm(14 1/8''), D=260mm (10 1/4''), H is flexible as the shelves can be moved. The boxes could be placed on ear level while sitting. Currently there are MAGNAT Monitor Supreme 200s lying down in the shelves which are not bad but I wonder if better result could be achieved with mini Karlsonator with appropriate full range driver(s)? Or would some folded TABAQ be a better option? Foam core built is possible.
The idea is to use the available space for BEST POSSIBLE sound quality and bass extension, no sub, enough amp power is available (IcePower 125ASX2). It should be a definitive solution so the driver cost (to reasonable extent ;-) is a no brainer, high sound quality is priority. Non-exotic EU available drivers (Fostex, Peerless, Monacor, Visaton, ...) are preferred ;-). Any ideas?
Attachments
Thanks, xrk971 - this was exactly the box that brought me to that idea ;-))). Would it harm to let the front aperture overlap the box on the sides in order to match the width of the furniture? I mean to make the front 36cm wide while keeping the box behind it 0.53x Karlsonator? Or I can make separate cloth frame to cover the opening in the bookcase neatly...
Yep...but I am friend of protected speakers anyway. Too many times I have seen eager fingers exploring attractive cones in move with sad outcomes...
gee X, that is really nice work. I've got a Karlsonator question-
Some time ago a diyAudio member sent the picture below along with a hornresp sim which I could not understand. The original picture showed a waveguide mounted in the upper baffle area.
Those dimensions are eyeballed assuming a 12 inch driver with 12.75" diameter frame.
If workable, then would be around Karlson's K12 size.
Might such a cabinet 26" or so x 15" x15" make it solid to 70Hz with some 12 and 10"? -- guessing it could go a few notes lower than K12, but not have as much "hit". Shorter internal height such as 21" would be interestimg.
GregB's Karlsonator(12) is tuned `37Hz. Something this small might be tuned around 60Hz (?)
Def_Driver ‘Kappa 12A’ | Eminence 12” speaker 3.2mm xmax
Sd=519,5
Fs=46Hz
Mms=42g
Qms=7.76
Qes=0.28
Re=5.41ohm
Le=0.77mH
Vas=112.1L
Some time ago a diyAudio member sent the picture below along with a hornresp sim which I could not understand. The original picture showed a waveguide mounted in the upper baffle area.
Those dimensions are eyeballed assuming a 12 inch driver with 12.75" diameter frame.
If workable, then would be around Karlson's K12 size.
Might such a cabinet 26" or so x 15" x15" make it solid to 70Hz with some 12 and 10"? -- guessing it could go a few notes lower than K12, but not have as much "hit". Shorter internal height such as 21" would be interestimg.
GregB's Karlsonator(12) is tuned `37Hz. Something this small might be tuned around 60Hz (?)
Def_Driver ‘Kappa 12A’ | Eminence 12” speaker 3.2mm xmax
Sd=519,5
Fs=46Hz
Mms=42g
Qms=7.76
Qes=0.28
Re=5.41ohm
Le=0.77mH
Vas=112.1L
Attachments
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Hi Freddi,
That almost resembles a very short tapped horn vs a Karlsonator. That short length is about a 35in horn length - maybe 40in or 1m if you consider the partial K aperture.
Based on 1/4-wave frequency that gets a fundamental of 84Hz for the bottom end. Good for tricking one into thinking they are hearing fundamental of low note on a bass at 41Hz.
That almost resembles a very short tapped horn vs a Karlsonator. That short length is about a 35in horn length - maybe 40in or 1m if you consider the partial K aperture.
Based on 1/4-wave frequency that gets a fundamental of 84Hz for the bottom end. Good for tricking one into thinking they are hearing fundamental of low note on a bass at 41Hz.
Hi X. That grill cloth photos reminds me of a question I've be wondering about for a while. That K-appertute shown has square corners to the cut out. Is there any point radiusing either or both edge corners to smooth them out?
No, I don't think it matters much compared to the scale of the aperture itself if you are wondering if it will affect diffraction. On open face conventional speakers, a flush mounted tweeter bezel vs one that is 2mm thick can sometimes be seen in a frequency response measurement, but that is small 1.5 to 2dB effect up in kHz range.
Surround / Ceiling karlsonator
I am looking to add some of these for a possible surround sound system. (mini-k 3fe25)
Could someone explain the dispersion pattern?
I am trying to conceptualize how I would place them before I build them to see if they would fit in my space. How would the be oriented if mounted in ceiling overhead, slightly wider than seating position with the angled driver mount piece facing the listening position? Is there a lot of sound that is directed down (parallel to the mounted driver face)?
I am looking to add some of these for a possible surround sound system. (mini-k 3fe25)
Could someone explain the dispersion pattern?
I am trying to conceptualize how I would place them before I build them to see if they would fit in my space. How would the be oriented if mounted in ceiling overhead, slightly wider than seating position with the angled driver mount piece facing the listening position? Is there a lot of sound that is directed down (parallel to the mounted driver face)?
there's a fair amount of energy parallel to the aperture. If using a large fullrange which is beamy at high frequencies, the very highest frequencies would be in a narrower beam perpendicular to the baffle.
At any rate I think that narrow beam should go towards the primary listening
area
At any rate I think that narrow beam should go towards the primary listening
area
Attachments
Hi XRK and everyone else,
I've read through at least 50% of the posts in this thread so far. I believe I am over analysing. A classic problem of mine. Time to cut myself short and ask some questions:
For whoever has an opinion, which driver would you choose for a .53x build?
Dayton's will cost me about $60each, Tang Bands and Alpairs will be about $100each (yay Australia!). I'll probably build foam core, then test birch ply or mdf later (if there is much reason to).
I want sound quality, imaging & soundstage first and foremost, SPL & low freq reach as follow up considerations. I'm interested in the K pattern build due to the wide dispersion (something I originally was interested in line arrays for).
If these work well I might just end up for 5/7 of them for home theatre, but my primary goal for now is stereo (2.1) music.
Thank you all for the absolute wealth of info in this thread and many others. Look forward to joining the club!
I've read through at least 50% of the posts in this thread so far. I believe I am over analysing. A classic problem of mine. Time to cut myself short and ask some questions:
For whoever has an opinion, which driver would you choose for a .53x build?
- Dayton PA130-8 (my cheapest available option I think)
- Mark Audio Alpair 7MS
- Tang Band W5-2143
- Dual Dayton PA130-8's???
- or another driver/pair of drivers completely?
Dayton's will cost me about $60each, Tang Bands and Alpairs will be about $100each (yay Australia!). I'll probably build foam core, then test birch ply or mdf later (if there is much reason to).
I want sound quality, imaging & soundstage first and foremost, SPL & low freq reach as follow up considerations. I'm interested in the K pattern build due to the wide dispersion (something I originally was interested in line arrays for).
If these work well I might just end up for 5/7 of them for home theatre, but my primary goal for now is stereo (2.1) music.
Thank you all for the absolute wealth of info in this thread and many others. Look forward to joining the club!
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I can't comment on the drivers on your list, because I don't have experience with those. But I strongly suggest that you have a look at Faital Pro 3FE25. A number of us (following this thread) have built 0.53X speakers with two 16 Ohm 3FE25's in parallel per box and we're very happy with them. In particular, soundstage and imaging is very good if the driving amp is up to it. The Karlsonators benefit from adding a subwoofer, because the small drivers can't be expected to make authoritative bass. You should be fine with your intended 2.1 system.
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Since I live in Africa, I'm used to having to import most of my audio stuff. I got my Fatal Pro drivers from axiomedia.it in Italy, but they're out of stock since there is a manufacturing delay apparently.
Parts Express seems to have stock of the Neo magnet version: 3FE22-16.
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Parts Express seems to have stock of the Neo magnet version: 3FE22-16.
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