Well, not just a silly question... I think it may not be quite possible, because some programming differences in between these versions of the DAC chips. The firmware of the device it was designed accordingly to the requirements of 4458 DAC, and may not fit perfectly for the new version, even the chips it may be pin to pin compatible...
When about your previous question, about an eventual "remotely upgrade" approach, I may say that such may not be just possible, for the expected results, or for positive results, even the whole it may seems at first instance quite feasible.
First, such approach it involve a large amount of work from the "instructor" side (which I am not able for in this direction). Second the riks for failures is very high, because eventual misunderstandings, not enough knowledge or skills for particular aspects of the process, and in the end it may involve a degree of responsibility from the instructor side, about the eventual negative consequences. Also it may be about some other aspects in such remotely upgrade approach, which I chose not to mention it so far...
When about your previous question, about an eventual "remotely upgrade" approach, I may say that such may not be just possible, for the expected results, or for positive results, even the whole it may seems at first instance quite feasible.
First, such approach it involve a large amount of work from the "instructor" side (which I am not able for in this direction). Second the riks for failures is very high, because eventual misunderstandings, not enough knowledge or skills for particular aspects of the process, and in the end it may involve a degree of responsibility from the instructor side, about the eventual negative consequences. Also it may be about some other aspects in such remotely upgrade approach, which I chose not to mention it so far...
I've watched a number of films now over xmas and without counting I think it's had over 70 hours of use since fitting. Ive also left to running in the background to add a few more hours of use on the PS (I know Coris doesn't approve, so apologies here)
I loaded up my test discs and rewatched these again for the 3rd time since fitting. Images I do believe have taken a small step forward from the first plug in and their is a stability and smoothness to the motion that is very analogue, it was always good but now things seem very natural, image depth, clarity and colour density looks superb, the best I have had at home. The Lumagen was calibrated back in early 2019 some 500 hours of use ago, by the well regarded Gordon Fraser who is the best calibrator in the UK and distributes Lumagen. He's due back when the world has settled to do a check and tweak, as the PJ is laser it shouldn't have drifted by much
I think the image has improved by a worthwhile amount, probably as much as for me the Panasonics image is ahead of other players. The pictures look lush !
Okay the sound, well I'm very happy
The initial 'tightness' and the slight hardness has gone, the bass and midd have real weight and dynamics and the sense of scale and there is a sense of transparency and resolution that was to for me apparent when just plugged in and no hours on the caps
Overall the sonic improvement on the SMPS are
1. An increase in bass weight, separation and scale, it sounds tighter and more impactful.
2. The mids and top end now seem clearer and fuller with more depth and tonal colour than before, cleaner without being leaner
3. Dynamics have improved marginally
4. timing, poise and musicality seem to be spot on
5. In many ways there is a little bit more of everything with no obvious drawbacks
A very nice upgrade for one of the best players out there
I loaded up my test discs and rewatched these again for the 3rd time since fitting. Images I do believe have taken a small step forward from the first plug in and their is a stability and smoothness to the motion that is very analogue, it was always good but now things seem very natural, image depth, clarity and colour density looks superb, the best I have had at home. The Lumagen was calibrated back in early 2019 some 500 hours of use ago, by the well regarded Gordon Fraser who is the best calibrator in the UK and distributes Lumagen. He's due back when the world has settled to do a check and tweak, as the PJ is laser it shouldn't have drifted by much
I think the image has improved by a worthwhile amount, probably as much as for me the Panasonics image is ahead of other players. The pictures look lush !
Okay the sound, well I'm very happy
The initial 'tightness' and the slight hardness has gone, the bass and midd have real weight and dynamics and the sense of scale and there is a sense of transparency and resolution that was to for me apparent when just plugged in and no hours on the caps
Overall the sonic improvement on the SMPS are
1. An increase in bass weight, separation and scale, it sounds tighter and more impactful.
2. The mids and top end now seem clearer and fuller with more depth and tonal colour than before, cleaner without being leaner
3. Dynamics have improved marginally
4. timing, poise and musicality seem to be spot on
5. In many ways there is a little bit more of everything with no obvious drawbacks
A very nice upgrade for one of the best players out there
I would like to precise that the LPS components (98% of it) it are (by design) always powered, as long as the device is connected to outlet. Part of the circuits on main board it are also powered continuously as when the device is not in function, it remain in a standby state. When pressing the Power On button on front panel, it are made only the rest of the LPS DC voltage connections (coupling), to the main board and/or device another functional circuits (device it wake up from standby).
Therefore the LPS itself (its filtering caps as other components) it not need any special "burn in" process...
The sound out of the player with an LPS inside it get only partial improved, and this is normal, when both DAC sections and audio board are still not be upgraded accordingly. For a full improvement for both picture and sound, the device full upgrade is necessary (upgraded the whole power system on main board itself as for DAC sections, and upgrades for the audio analog signal processing section - audio board). However, replacing the original SMPS with an LPS it lead to an overall, obvious important initial improvement (as described in the above post).
Therefore the LPS itself (its filtering caps as other components) it not need any special "burn in" process...
The sound out of the player with an LPS inside it get only partial improved, and this is normal, when both DAC sections and audio board are still not be upgraded accordingly. For a full improvement for both picture and sound, the device full upgrade is necessary (upgraded the whole power system on main board itself as for DAC sections, and upgrades for the audio analog signal processing section - audio board). However, replacing the original SMPS with an LPS it lead to an overall, obvious important initial improvement (as described in the above post).
Well, in my last above post I was referring to the analogue sound out of the player. Replacing the original SMPS with an LPS it improve the quality of both video and digital sound, available on device dedicated outputs. The improvements are even more obvious when the main board power system is also upgraded, in addition to the LPS installing. The best interface for digital sound it remain also the HDMI (audio only). However, the overall quality is lifted up for all device sections, and this is based on the principle/fact of lowering the overall noise level in the whole system, by the improvements done to device power system, as other improvements measures as well.
Coris, hi
If I am not keen to send over the whole player, are the main board mods something that can be done by a DIYer ? Or another alternative is for me to buy a used 9000,(I am looking out for one) take out the main board and send over then swap when it return, rebuild the second player with my main board and sell on again
Best
Adrian
If I am not keen to send over the whole player, are the main board mods something that can be done by a DIYer ? Or another alternative is for me to buy a used 9000,(I am looking out for one) take out the main board and send over then swap when it return, rebuild the second player with my main board and sell on again
Best
Adrian
Coris, hi
I think this might be the one you wants to upload ? the rebuilding worth the LPS Panasonic UB9000 - LPS installing & remounting - YouTube
Best
I think this might be the one you wants to upload ? the rebuilding worth the LPS Panasonic UB9000 - LPS installing & remounting - YouTube
Best
I would like to point here out about some aspects in using SMPS and LPS for digital system powering.
We may keep in mind the follow powering principles for this UB9000 (but this it is also true for any digital device):
Original design: main SMPS it provide the main power lines to the boards. This main power lines it provide power to the many small local SMPSes, used for targeted digital circuits, as to the main processor power system. Here is about a cascade of SMPSes which it convert the voltages accordingly, to the system circuits requirements. Many SMPSes are cascaded on main board itself, for lowering accordingly the voltages delivered to the targeted circuits (12v to 5v; 5v to 3,3v; 3,3v/5v to other lower voltages).
Linear power approach: main LPS it provide the main linear (noiseless) power lines to the same many small local SMPSes, in the same cascaded scheme. Replacing a main small SMPS on main board (taking it that out of that voltage reducing cascade/chain), by an own linear power line, delivered by LPS, it reduce even more the noise sources into the whole system.
Ideally, all the SMPSes on board it should be replaced by linear power lines for best results. This is not possible because the power management, required first by the processor power system. Many devices/processors on main board it have to have a sequenced powering, on and off in a proper maner, to protect and ensure the stable and safe functionality. Another circuits in the system it also require power management as well. The main advantage of SMPS type is the very quick response to start/stop events, as a much higher power efficiency, than an analogue power device/regulator. To control a linear power system as required by the power management system, it can increase quite much the design complexity and the production costs. Over all these non convenient aspects, when using a linear power system for a large scale circuits in a digital system, it come as well, some strange way of thinking of the designers themselves... For example, the original SMPS in UB9000 it use unnecessary complicated (lot of components involved) control circuits only for switching on/off the few delivered power lines. It looks to me that the designers it used quite much copy/paste procedure to place overall on SMPS board such complexe schemes of on/off devices... A such design it increase the production costs, of an power system which is supposed to be used because its lower production costs. Here is paradox and a designer thinking way, which is not easy to understand it...
Well, coming back to the linear power approach, the idea here is to reduce as much as (reasonable and pricewise) possible the number of the SMPSes used in the power system. This it lead to a much lower noise level into the whole digital system.
I would like to mention too, about another aspect when using a linear/analogue power source to power a digital system. A digital system is natively very noisy while functioning. This is because the extremely high frequency involved and huge number of switching events at amazing speed. A such combination it generate a very large spectre of noises, spread all over, through the system connections, as wireless in the near environnement the system is functioning. This is true for any and every digital system, no matter its dimensions and complexity. Just add a switching power supply to all this noisy mess, and one can understand what the challenge is for the software and hardware to sort out and right processing the useful signals... Well, the system it works as it should and successfully in the end. Adding a analogue power device to a such noisy system, it make inevitable that the analogue (silent) power supply is strongly perturbed by the noises generated by the digital functionality. An linear power supply output measured while connected to a digital system in function, it look just horrible, even the same LPS it measured for few µV noises/ripple on bench tests (resistive loads). Therefore the good measurements results for an LPS it have no so much meaning, if that LPS is meant to be connected to an digital system. However, the noises measured to an LPS output while connected and powering a digital system in function, it have a different structure than when the powering is made by an SMPS (reduced spectre). Even thought all these noises aspects, there is very obvious that an LPS providing power to a digital system, it contribute very much to lowering the overall noise level of that whole system, while an SMPS it contribute to increasing it. There are different areas/fields of advantages when about LPS vs SMPS, as disadvantages in using such types PSUs. An compromise is always beneficial, and it have big impact over the quality of the outputted signals by that system/device.
We may keep in mind the follow powering principles for this UB9000 (but this it is also true for any digital device):
Original design: main SMPS it provide the main power lines to the boards. This main power lines it provide power to the many small local SMPSes, used for targeted digital circuits, as to the main processor power system. Here is about a cascade of SMPSes which it convert the voltages accordingly, to the system circuits requirements. Many SMPSes are cascaded on main board itself, for lowering accordingly the voltages delivered to the targeted circuits (12v to 5v; 5v to 3,3v; 3,3v/5v to other lower voltages).
Linear power approach: main LPS it provide the main linear (noiseless) power lines to the same many small local SMPSes, in the same cascaded scheme. Replacing a main small SMPS on main board (taking it that out of that voltage reducing cascade/chain), by an own linear power line, delivered by LPS, it reduce even more the noise sources into the whole system.
Ideally, all the SMPSes on board it should be replaced by linear power lines for best results. This is not possible because the power management, required first by the processor power system. Many devices/processors on main board it have to have a sequenced powering, on and off in a proper maner, to protect and ensure the stable and safe functionality. Another circuits in the system it also require power management as well. The main advantage of SMPS type is the very quick response to start/stop events, as a much higher power efficiency, than an analogue power device/regulator. To control a linear power system as required by the power management system, it can increase quite much the design complexity and the production costs. Over all these non convenient aspects, when using a linear power system for a large scale circuits in a digital system, it come as well, some strange way of thinking of the designers themselves... For example, the original SMPS in UB9000 it use unnecessary complicated (lot of components involved) control circuits only for switching on/off the few delivered power lines. It looks to me that the designers it used quite much copy/paste procedure to place overall on SMPS board such complexe schemes of on/off devices... A such design it increase the production costs, of an power system which is supposed to be used because its lower production costs. Here is paradox and a designer thinking way, which is not easy to understand it...
Well, coming back to the linear power approach, the idea here is to reduce as much as (reasonable and pricewise) possible the number of the SMPSes used in the power system. This it lead to a much lower noise level into the whole digital system.
I would like to mention too, about another aspect when using a linear/analogue power source to power a digital system. A digital system is natively very noisy while functioning. This is because the extremely high frequency involved and huge number of switching events at amazing speed. A such combination it generate a very large spectre of noises, spread all over, through the system connections, as wireless in the near environnement the system is functioning. This is true for any and every digital system, no matter its dimensions and complexity. Just add a switching power supply to all this noisy mess, and one can understand what the challenge is for the software and hardware to sort out and right processing the useful signals... Well, the system it works as it should and successfully in the end. Adding a analogue power device to a such noisy system, it make inevitable that the analogue (silent) power supply is strongly perturbed by the noises generated by the digital functionality. An linear power supply output measured while connected to a digital system in function, it look just horrible, even the same LPS it measured for few µV noises/ripple on bench tests (resistive loads). Therefore the good measurements results for an LPS it have no so much meaning, if that LPS is meant to be connected to an digital system. However, the noises measured to an LPS output while connected and powering a digital system in function, it have a different structure than when the powering is made by an SMPS (reduced spectre). Even thought all these noises aspects, there is very obvious that an LPS providing power to a digital system, it contribute very much to lowering the overall noise level of that whole system, while an SMPS it contribute to increasing it. There are different areas/fields of advantages when about LPS vs SMPS, as disadvantages in using such types PSUs. An compromise is always beneficial, and it have big impact over the quality of the outputted signals by that system/device.
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