1) Depends on the DACs. Clock signals would need to be buffered to go to separate DACs, which would add some jitter to the clock signals. A McFifo/McDual would help some.
2) If in the same enclosure and you aren't planning on using any of the digital outputs from the TransportPi, then it is not necessary.
3) I have only ordered from the Group Buys, so I have no experience with Audiophonics.
I am working on a setup which is similar to yours, but I will have 7x stereo AKM 4493 DACs (so I am not using the McFifo/McDual). I also have a MCH streamer and 2x 2X4HD in the mix.
Raspberry Pi 3 or 4 -> ReceiverPi (ADC input, SPDIFinputs) -> FifoPi -> TransportPi -> MiniSharc -> 4x stereo AKM 4493 DACs -> 2 way active JBL Studio 530s and up to 4 15" Rythmik servo subs (currently have 2).
So my system will have a 5.4 system with the fronts, center, and surrounds all active 2 ways with multichannel USB input, multichannel HDMI input, and multichannel analog input. I was also setting up to run a separate 4 way active speaker in the same room.
2) If in the same enclosure and you aren't planning on using any of the digital outputs from the TransportPi, then it is not necessary.
3) I have only ordered from the Group Buys, so I have no experience with Audiophonics.
I am working on a setup which is similar to yours, but I will have 7x stereo AKM 4493 DACs (so I am not using the McFifo/McDual). I also have a MCH streamer and 2x 2X4HD in the mix.
Raspberry Pi 3 or 4 -> ReceiverPi (ADC input, SPDIFinputs) -> FifoPi -> TransportPi -> MiniSharc -> 4x stereo AKM 4493 DACs -> 2 way active JBL Studio 530s and up to 4 15" Rythmik servo subs (currently have 2).
So my system will have a 5.4 system with the fronts, center, and surrounds all active 2 ways with multichannel USB input, multichannel HDMI input, and multichannel analog input. I was also setting up to run a separate 4 way active speaker in the same room.
Thanks...
1. When you mentioned that multiple DACs would require buffers, is that on the assumption of longer lines due to separate enclosures? If so, let me clarify: I plan to get them in the same enclosure with separate stacked boards very close to the MiniSharc header. If there's another reason, I'm curious as to what it is.
I'm curious about experiences with McFifo/McDual in general, although I understand the benefit can hinge on the DAC...and I may end up with a revolving door of DACs. I have read that delta sigma dacs are more susceptible to audible problems from jitter when compared to multibit dacs. I plan to contrast both so hopefully will learn along the way.
2. Makes sense. So if my Audiophonics order reappears on the map, I may have a TransportPi to sell or trade.
3. Fair enough. Maybe other will chime in on Audiophonics' ability to deliver as promised. ... or how to better get their attention to resolve the ghost order issue.
Your system sounds interesting - home theater setup? I will use mine for such but it's 90% music so 2 channel. Are the DACs off the shelf or DIY? I'd enjoy seeing pics of it whenever it's at the right stage, especially given the similarities to what I'm working on.
The minisharc has three clock pins and 4 data pins. Each of the dacs requires three clock pins and 1 data pin, so the three clock pins need to be shared for 4 dacs. It may work fine to parallel all the clock pins. If it doesn't work, you can duplicate the clock signals for the 4 DACs.
Yes, it is for a home theater setup.
Yes, it is for a home theater setup.
MiniSharc.project with FifoPi Ultimate Qs
I whipped up a prototype breakout board for the MiniSharc to connect with the Pi2AES (to be replaced by Ian's Fifopi ultimate) and stacking headers on dac breakout boards to distribute the signals from "master" dac breakout board to "slaves".
Those cheap PCM5102 dacs ($7 each!) are there just for prototyping purposes .. and for making early power supply & other mod mistakes inexpensive... but I'm astounded by the difference in swapping the 3 regulators for LifePo4 power. And, yes, I did "semi-blind" A-B testing with a Schiit Sys... as I will continue to as I compare Dacs and dac mods.
Once I lock in a DAC direction, I'll likely look to acquire a McFifo and McDual if they will benefit the sound ... I hope they will be available as Audiophonics no longer lists them.
With MiniSharc set to slave in/slave out, I'll run the Master Clock signal directly from the FifoPi (Pi2AES for now) to the Dacs. Those boards will require some additional al surgery as they are currently set to PLL mode, though.
I noted they have resistors on the BLK and LRCL lines... I assume I'll need one as well for the Master Clock signal?
(Side note )Audiophonics got back to me on the ghosted tracking of the late Fifopi Ultimate/TransportPi/clocks/ConditionerPi/etc order and said they "initiated a complaint ticket with Colissimo International" ...still no sign on Collisimo/USPS tracking of any activity since the packages left France in June, though, so I may need an alternate source for those as well .... considering it currently appears they are on the bottom of the Atlantic waiting for archeologists to discover them 3,000 years from now like the Antikythera Mechanism, speculating on their purpose and wondering who the great leader "FifoPi Ultimate Q2" was, since the objects of art (or weapons) were obviously created in his honor (or to defend his territory).
Thanks for the ideas and insight.
Chris
I whipped up a prototype breakout board for the MiniSharc to connect with the Pi2AES (to be replaced by Ian's Fifopi ultimate) and stacking headers on dac breakout boards to distribute the signals from "master" dac breakout board to "slaves".
Those cheap PCM5102 dacs ($7 each!) are there just for prototyping purposes .. and for making early power supply & other mod mistakes inexpensive... but I'm astounded by the difference in swapping the 3 regulators for LifePo4 power. And, yes, I did "semi-blind" A-B testing with a Schiit Sys... as I will continue to as I compare Dacs and dac mods.
Once I lock in a DAC direction, I'll likely look to acquire a McFifo and McDual if they will benefit the sound ... I hope they will be available as Audiophonics no longer lists them.
With MiniSharc set to slave in/slave out, I'll run the Master Clock signal directly from the FifoPi (Pi2AES for now) to the Dacs. Those boards will require some additional al surgery as they are currently set to PLL mode, though.
I noted they have resistors on the BLK and LRCL lines... I assume I'll need one as well for the Master Clock signal?
(Side note )Audiophonics got back to me on the ghosted tracking of the late Fifopi Ultimate/TransportPi/clocks/ConditionerPi/etc order and said they "initiated a complaint ticket with Colissimo International" ...still no sign on Collisimo/USPS tracking of any activity since the packages left France in June, though, so I may need an alternate source for those as well .... considering it currently appears they are on the bottom of the Atlantic waiting for archeologists to discover them 3,000 years from now like the Antikythera Mechanism, speculating on their purpose and wondering who the great leader "FifoPi Ultimate Q2" was, since the objects of art (or weapons) were obviously created in his honor (or to defend his territory).
Thanks for the ideas and insight.
Chris
Attachments
^
Thanks for sharing your Audiophonics.fr experience. Please let us know if the package ever arrives.
I'm already hesitant about ordering the AS318 clocks because unsure if an adapter is needed, now there's a bigger worry if the clocks would ever arrive from France. Even with a hefty shipping fee.
I guess it's best to stick with Plan A and start off with Mouser Crystek since there's a step-by-step PDF and worry about the AS318 down the line.
Thanks for sharing your Audiophonics.fr experience. Please let us know if the package ever arrives.
I'm already hesitant about ordering the AS318 clocks because unsure if an adapter is needed, now there's a bigger worry if the clocks would ever arrive from France. Even with a hefty shipping fee.
I guess it's best to stick with Plan A and start off with Mouser Crystek since there's a step-by-step PDF and worry about the AS318 down the line.
You can order some AS318 from Aliexpress for cheap. If they are same AS318 as those used on the new Chinese USB boards, and they look like it, then they are the real deal. 5pcs 100% new and orginal AS318 ACCUSILICON 2520 Active SMD Crystal 2025 49.152M 49.1520MHZ|Kitchen Cabinet Parts & Accessories| - AliExpress ...by the way, the real ones take about 3-days powered up before jitter finally settles to a minimum. Same as Topping D90 behavior.
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@JCMcNeil
I bought some boards from Tea Bag back in May. He promptly shipped them and 4 days later had reached the UK... presume Heathrow Airport and its huge mailing import duty system.
The tracking thence stopped and seemingly sat in the ether for about 5 weeks. They finally showed up a couple weeks ago after Tea shipped May21st.
Keep hope....they might show up....sometime..!
I bought some boards from Tea Bag back in May. He promptly shipped them and 4 days later had reached the UK... presume Heathrow Airport and its huge mailing import duty system.
The tracking thence stopped and seemingly sat in the ether for about 5 weeks. They finally showed up a couple weeks ago after Tea shipped May21st.
Keep hope....they might show up....sometime..!
Thanks. I'll keep an eye out for the AS318 for a project down the line. Topping is one of the reasons I wanted to go straight for the AS318 since they seem to have successful products with these clocks.
For now I'll play it safe with the Crystek and chalk up the expense as a learning curve experience. I hope I can build upon this experience and apply it to AS318 or andrea_mori clocks at another point in time.
If andrea_mori reads this thread, please post what kit and part # I need for the FiFoPi Q3. That thread is too intimidating to post for someone new to this site. I wouldn't mind getting in on a Group Buy, but have no clue where to start as I just need clocks targeted for the FiFoPi Q3.
I love ordering from Mouser, so that's the first place I turn to if products are available for purchase.
I was just looking at gathering parts in preparation of the FiFoPi Q3, so if I pass on the AS318 I'm considering the LiFePO4 MKIII to keep me busy till then. After I receive (cross fingers) the 26650 battery holders, then will make a decision on the MKIII.
Shipment not lost at sea after all...
The new toys just arrived!
Image attached of, left-to-right, FifoPi Q2 Ultimate, TransportPi, ConditionerPi, umm, "GuitarTunerPi?" .. Accusilicon clock in background.
Thanks, that means a lot coming from you! I am excited that the ConditionerPi, TransportPi, and FifoPi Q2 Ultimate just arrived.
The proof is in the listening, of course, and I trust that will be excellent, but first impressions: These boards are extremely well constructed. They radiate quality. I'll share more as I integrate them in my new system.
Package 1 of 2 arrived today. (I ordered the ultracapacitors for the ConditionerPi separately the next day when they arrived in stock)
So it's later than Audiophonics' website stated, and I can accept that given current worldwide circumstances, but the greater problem was the lack of the tracking I was led to expect once the packages left France. See attached screenshot- Highly rated (see their reviews on Trustpilot) shipper Colisssimo supplied a "partner tracking number" via USPS for each package... but nothing ever showed up on the USPS site under those numbers, implying the packages never made it across the ocean. (The refresh button is worn out on my browser from checking.)
Contrast that with my recent MiniDSP experience in which I got a similar-sized package at a similar cost delivered over an extra continent and larger ocean in 4 days (from Hong Kong to Charleston, SC). ...with perfect tracking, of course. Isn't that what we expect these days?
Given Audiophonics doesn't seem to be interested in competing on value (I noted MarkW's link to Ali Express' much lower price on the same clock) maybe they need to compete on experience(?) So I advised Sebasten there to look into DHL for shipping. I hope they fix the shipping issue because I like it that Audiophonics exist as a resource to DIY'ers and hope to see them continue to thrive.
On to the Ian Canada component integration into the system-in-motion....
and, if you are reading this and have an idea to share or see something I am making a mistake on or could do better .... please share in reply.
Raspberry Pi4 running Volumio *-> ConditionerPi -> TransportPi** -> FifoPi Q2U -> MiniSharc in slave mode -> DAC Stack*** -> (future possibility: McFifo and McDual, which I appreciate because of my Scottish heritage) -> PGA-8CH 8-channel volume control/preamp board -> amps -> speakers
* considering Moode as a more stable platform
**maybe.. or maybe not needed since I am using i2s out to the MiniSharc
*** testing and building various possible DACs while working initial system out with cheap PCM5102 boards with various mods to test power supplies, etc.
The power system is
* R-Core transformer + Modded "Studer 900" board powering thee MiniSharc and, possibly, the Raspberry Pi
* Toroidal transformer via Audiophonics for PGA-8CH board
* Above in separate chassis, to be connected with umbilical cable
* LifePo4 power for 3.3V circuits, managed with Arduino system + relays and TP5000 boards to charge. Currently, I am using this with 3 circuits per PCM5102 board replacing the LM1117 regulators, for instance. I initiated this system before Ian launched his LifePo4 board or would likely have purchased one of those as they look excellent.
* Maxwell 350F/2.7V Ultracapacitors I aim to build managed systems for.
Speaking of managed systems,
The control system is Arduino-based
*Arduino Mega running, among other things, relays for battery management and system power up-down, responsive to...
* ESP8266 board controlling and pulling info from Volumio over WiFi via their API.
* A satellite Arduino Nano or 2 running power modules, (soon) monitoring heatsink temperature and voltage measurement via optocouplers (or with the flying capacitor method if I can get it to be consistent enough) and communicating with "mother ship" Mega via serial.
All Arduinos are galvanically isolated from the audio circuits, of course... but if stray noise creeps in from them in spite of that, I'll take other measures up to powering them with batteries and putting them in separate boxes...
Amps are ChiFi tubes (Yaqin for mids, Nobsound SET amp for tweeters)
plus vintage NAD 2700THX for the woofers... and the servo-feedback-loop empowered class D amps packaged with the ....
2 Rythmik 12" holding up the bottom end beneath NHT Classic 3's I've had forever but converted to active duty, initially with DBX 234s analog active crossovers, when I got bored and yanked out the passive crossovers last year.
de note for the curious about multi-amping- it took some patient work with REW and a calibrated mic to work out the nuanced but, overall, going from passive to active crossovers was like lifting not just a veil but a thick, shag-carpet curtain between my ears and the music.
I'm looking forward to contrasting the difference with that analog active setup with a hopefully-optimized digital active setup, including FIR filters etc. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I'm keeping the analog side for ddigital-free vinyl and low-latency movie watching.
Next steps, for the curious and those who might wish to contribute ideas-
1. integrated system power on/of/sleep (recharge, etc) management via Arduino & relays.
2. pushbutton/ rotary encoder + remote layered menu system to toggle between Volumio (or Moode, or?) player management, power management, system feedback like battery & UC voltage + heatsink temp, etc
3. MiniSharc management via Arduino via #2
4. Continue A-B testing DAC possibilities with various chips- the modded PCM5102s will hold down the fort while building a TDA1541-based board to contrast with TDA1387 board I just built. I am enjoying learning as I optimize and hear the distinctions.
5. Explore FPGA programming for DAC filtering and, hopefully, DAC building a la Chord & PS Directstream. I am new to FPGA but am usually a quick study at such things.
6. Modify PGA-8CH board, possibly replacing op amps with discrete circuits and upgrading power supplies.. or find higher fi alternative
7. related to 4, 5, and 6 (PGA-8CH does have relatively generous gain available in active mode) experiment with DAC filters and output stages (if needed)
8. Add McDual & McFifo if jitter is an issue at a later stage ... or, just because ...
9. and a partridge in a pear tree
cheers
Chris
The new toys just arrived!
Image attached of, left-to-right, FifoPi Q2 Ultimate, TransportPi, ConditionerPi, umm, "GuitarTunerPi?" .. Accusilicon clock in background.
Thanks, that means a lot coming from you! I am excited that the ConditionerPi, TransportPi, and FifoPi Q2 Ultimate just arrived.
The proof is in the listening, of course, and I trust that will be excellent, but first impressions: These boards are extremely well constructed. They radiate quality. I'll share more as I integrate them in my new system.
Package 1 of 2 arrived today. (I ordered the ultracapacitors for the ConditionerPi separately the next day when they arrived in stock)
So it's later than Audiophonics' website stated, and I can accept that given current worldwide circumstances, but the greater problem was the lack of the tracking I was led to expect once the packages left France. See attached screenshot- Highly rated (see their reviews on Trustpilot) shipper Colisssimo supplied a "partner tracking number" via USPS for each package... but nothing ever showed up on the USPS site under those numbers, implying the packages never made it across the ocean. (The refresh button is worn out on my browser from checking.)
Contrast that with my recent MiniDSP experience in which I got a similar-sized package at a similar cost delivered over an extra continent and larger ocean in 4 days (from Hong Kong to Charleston, SC). ...with perfect tracking, of course. Isn't that what we expect these days?
Given Audiophonics doesn't seem to be interested in competing on value (I noted MarkW's link to Ali Express' much lower price on the same clock) maybe they need to compete on experience(?) So I advised Sebasten there to look into DHL for shipping. I hope they fix the shipping issue because I like it that Audiophonics exist as a resource to DIY'ers and hope to see them continue to thrive.
On to the Ian Canada component integration into the system-in-motion....
and, if you are reading this and have an idea to share or see something I am making a mistake on or could do better .... please share in reply.
Raspberry Pi4 running Volumio *-> ConditionerPi -> TransportPi** -> FifoPi Q2U -> MiniSharc in slave mode -> DAC Stack*** -> (future possibility: McFifo and McDual, which I appreciate because of my Scottish heritage) -> PGA-8CH 8-channel volume control/preamp board -> amps -> speakers
* considering Moode as a more stable platform
**maybe.. or maybe not needed since I am using i2s out to the MiniSharc
*** testing and building various possible DACs while working initial system out with cheap PCM5102 boards with various mods to test power supplies, etc.
The power system is
* R-Core transformer + Modded "Studer 900" board powering thee MiniSharc and, possibly, the Raspberry Pi
* Toroidal transformer via Audiophonics for PGA-8CH board
* Above in separate chassis, to be connected with umbilical cable
* LifePo4 power for 3.3V circuits, managed with Arduino system + relays and TP5000 boards to charge. Currently, I am using this with 3 circuits per PCM5102 board replacing the LM1117 regulators, for instance. I initiated this system before Ian launched his LifePo4 board or would likely have purchased one of those as they look excellent.
* Maxwell 350F/2.7V Ultracapacitors I aim to build managed systems for.
Speaking of managed systems,
The control system is Arduino-based
*Arduino Mega running, among other things, relays for battery management and system power up-down, responsive to...
* ESP8266 board controlling and pulling info from Volumio over WiFi via their API.
* A satellite Arduino Nano or 2 running power modules, (soon) monitoring heatsink temperature and voltage measurement via optocouplers (or with the flying capacitor method if I can get it to be consistent enough) and communicating with "mother ship" Mega via serial.
All Arduinos are galvanically isolated from the audio circuits, of course... but if stray noise creeps in from them in spite of that, I'll take other measures up to powering them with batteries and putting them in separate boxes...
Amps are ChiFi tubes (Yaqin for mids, Nobsound SET amp for tweeters)
plus vintage NAD 2700THX for the woofers... and the servo-feedback-loop empowered class D amps packaged with the ....
2 Rythmik 12" holding up the bottom end beneath NHT Classic 3's I've had forever but converted to active duty, initially with DBX 234s analog active crossovers, when I got bored and yanked out the passive crossovers last year.
de note for the curious about multi-amping- it took some patient work with REW and a calibrated mic to work out the nuanced but, overall, going from passive to active crossovers was like lifting not just a veil but a thick, shag-carpet curtain between my ears and the music.
I'm looking forward to contrasting the difference with that analog active setup with a hopefully-optimized digital active setup, including FIR filters etc. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I'm keeping the analog side for ddigital-free vinyl and low-latency movie watching.
Next steps, for the curious and those who might wish to contribute ideas-
1. integrated system power on/of/sleep (recharge, etc) management via Arduino & relays.
2. pushbutton/ rotary encoder + remote layered menu system to toggle between Volumio (or Moode, or?) player management, power management, system feedback like battery & UC voltage + heatsink temp, etc
3. MiniSharc management via Arduino via #2
4. Continue A-B testing DAC possibilities with various chips- the modded PCM5102s will hold down the fort while building a TDA1541-based board to contrast with TDA1387 board I just built. I am enjoying learning as I optimize and hear the distinctions.
5. Explore FPGA programming for DAC filtering and, hopefully, DAC building a la Chord & PS Directstream. I am new to FPGA but am usually a quick study at such things.
6. Modify PGA-8CH board, possibly replacing op amps with discrete circuits and upgrading power supplies.. or find higher fi alternative
7. related to 4, 5, and 6 (PGA-8CH does have relatively generous gain available in active mode) experiment with DAC filters and output stages (if needed)
8. Add McDual & McFifo if jitter is an issue at a later stage ... or, just because ...
9. and a partridge in a pear tree
cheers
Chris
Attachments
^
Beautiful. Both on receiving your order and the photos of your project.
Overseas tracking is tough sometimes. I followed an order from the Australian Post then it disappeared when crossing the ocean. It showed up when I went USPS site, but in your case nothing is showing. Never appeared on the Australian post till a few weeks after delivery.
Since the AS318 is in the background of your photo, I'm motivated to place an order from France at the end of the weekend before business day opens in Europe.
I'm going to place an order for the Accusilicon 45.49. I don't have enough experience to take a chance on ordering from another site and having to troubleshoot if the product is in working order. If anyone has objections if I should go 90.98, please let know by the end of the weekend.
I listen to mainly redbook files... Don't do DSD, but SACD redbook layer is fine.
Beautiful. Both on receiving your order and the photos of your project.
Overseas tracking is tough sometimes. I followed an order from the Australian Post then it disappeared when crossing the ocean. It showed up when I went USPS site, but in your case nothing is showing. Never appeared on the Australian post till a few weeks after delivery.
Since the AS318 is in the background of your photo, I'm motivated to place an order from France at the end of the weekend before business day opens in Europe.
I'm going to place an order for the Accusilicon 45.49. I don't have enough experience to take a chance on ordering from another site and having to troubleshoot if the product is in working order. If anyone has objections if I should go 90.98, please let know by the end of the weekend.
I listen to mainly redbook files... Don't do DSD, but SACD redbook layer is fine.
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Like my post below, I can provide AS318-B with free international shipping. If more people buy together, the unit price can be lower. $5 you see on the Internet is AS318, it is not AS318-B, the performance gap is very big. 45.158400 and 49.152000, MHz is available for sale, 90.316800 and 98.304000 is not now until 2 months later.
ACCUSILICON AS318 Ultra Low Jitter Clock GB
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You are better with 45.49. Clocks typically have less jitter at lower frequency. Lower jitter equals better sound. You could even go down to 22.24 if that is available. Ian has a table in the FIFOpi doc that shows what you can play with each frequency.
Hi Ian,
the led flashes fast between the clocks when streaming, but no sound. When I stop streaming, one led is burning constantly. Could it be a problem with the fifopi or Rpi?
best
Paul
Accusilicon and ghost ship(ping)s
Thanks!
I hope the Accusilicon works well for you. I don't have any experience with it yet but chose it largely on the strength of this review.
I don't feel I need the 41kHz family version because MiniSharc requires (or resamples) everything at 96/24.
Chris
Thanks!
I hope the Accusilicon works well for you. I don't have any experience with it yet but chose it largely on the strength of this review.
I don't feel I need the 41kHz family version because MiniSharc requires (or resamples) everything at 96/24.
Chris
@ Ian
could you please consider to extend the covered sample rates in the next FifoPi?
There are DACs that are not covered with their highest sample rates by the combinations provided by the FifoPi, e.g. the allowed clock frequencies for the AK4490 are 24.576 and 36.864 MHz, and this DAC can go up to 768kHz.
Or the new AK4499 accepts for fs = 768kHz clocks with 16fs, 32fs, 48fs, 64fs, which would be as lowest possible case even only a clock frequency of 12.288MHz.
could you please consider to extend the covered sample rates in the next FifoPi?
There are DACs that are not covered with their highest sample rates by the combinations provided by the FifoPi, e.g. the allowed clock frequencies for the AK4490 are 24.576 and 36.864 MHz, and this DAC can go up to 768kHz.
Or the new AK4499 accepts for fs = 768kHz clocks with 16fs, 32fs, 48fs, 64fs, which would be as lowest possible case even only a clock frequency of 12.288MHz.