I'm considering a line array build, using TC7FD00-04 2-1/2 speakers from Parts express. These are some pretty amazing little 4 ohm full range speakers I've used in a number of projects, and I happen to have a lot of them. Despite their being tagged as "woofers" on the website, I've always been pretty impressed how far into the high end they go. In fact the "on axis" response goes clear out to 20Khz.
Anyway, I've I've been thinking of making a line array out of these. I've read a number of articles about them, but here I'm asking a few specific questions from those who have actually made one of these things. For background, I'm a musician and typically play guitar (electric and acoustic) and sing in small clubs, using various samplers, drum machines, and sometimes home brewed tracks . I've built my own pair of floor speakers using traditional bass-reflex design, with 2 way crossovers to horn tweeters. They can be stacked on top of each other or spaced apart "left and right" when there's an elevated stage available. I'll usually stack them in a long narrow room. But long narrow rooms are always a challenge, and I can't help notice how many musicians are starting to add line arrays to their setup.
I can immediately see the advantages, especially in a club where there are often people sitting 20 feet or more away at a bar, and the musicians have to work from the floor off in some corner. in addition to some people sitting closer at tables, these line arrays nicely push some of the audio at all possible head heights, and offer significantly more clarity (you can understand the words being sung!) at a distance where you'd normally expect to hear only muddled tones. Or worse, the shrill harsh and echod tones from the horns on low budget PA speakers.
So anyway, I'd like to experiment adding my own home brewed line array. I'm willing to accept that my first attempt here will be less than ideal, and I'll likely end up modifying it down the road. In fact, based on what my ears tell me about these little speakers, i wasn't even going to include tweeters the first time, or if I do it will probably be just one on top. But there are a few confusing principals I'd like some advice on, from those who've tried their hand at these arrays.
1) I see that some companies like BOSE seem to angle each speaker slightly left or right in an alternating pattern. Sounds like a great idea, since the best high frequency from these small full range speakers seems to be when listening head on. But how much of an angle is sensible? And should I just alternate just left and right, or should I do something like "center / left / center /right, etc.", in a repeating pattern?
2) I see some builders wire their speaker arrays so that the center drivers get the most power. but if the main problem I'm trying to solve is reaching those further back, in a room where bodies tend to block sound, shouldn't I be sending more power to the top speakers?
3) I've read a lot about the "comb" effect, which basically causes dead spots in the sound field when the speaker spacing is wrong. The rule of thumb (without 4 pages of math) seems to be to space the speakers no more than 1 wavelength apart for "far field" avoidence of the comb effect. But for 8 Khz, that would make even my little 2-1/2 speakers overlap. Obviously that doesn't make sense. Does anyone have any practical recommendations here (besides just putting them as close as physically possible?
4) Equipment weight vs good sound always seems to be a trade off. But these are small speakers, and their combined magnet weight is already going to be pretty significant if I use 12 of them. Need I make an array like this out of heavy particle board? Can I just get away with simple 1/2 inch birch plywood reinforced at the corners?
Thanks for any and all help!
Anyway, I've I've been thinking of making a line array out of these. I've read a number of articles about them, but here I'm asking a few specific questions from those who have actually made one of these things. For background, I'm a musician and typically play guitar (electric and acoustic) and sing in small clubs, using various samplers, drum machines, and sometimes home brewed tracks . I've built my own pair of floor speakers using traditional bass-reflex design, with 2 way crossovers to horn tweeters. They can be stacked on top of each other or spaced apart "left and right" when there's an elevated stage available. I'll usually stack them in a long narrow room. But long narrow rooms are always a challenge, and I can't help notice how many musicians are starting to add line arrays to their setup.
I can immediately see the advantages, especially in a club where there are often people sitting 20 feet or more away at a bar, and the musicians have to work from the floor off in some corner. in addition to some people sitting closer at tables, these line arrays nicely push some of the audio at all possible head heights, and offer significantly more clarity (you can understand the words being sung!) at a distance where you'd normally expect to hear only muddled tones. Or worse, the shrill harsh and echod tones from the horns on low budget PA speakers.
So anyway, I'd like to experiment adding my own home brewed line array. I'm willing to accept that my first attempt here will be less than ideal, and I'll likely end up modifying it down the road. In fact, based on what my ears tell me about these little speakers, i wasn't even going to include tweeters the first time, or if I do it will probably be just one on top. But there are a few confusing principals I'd like some advice on, from those who've tried their hand at these arrays.
1) I see that some companies like BOSE seem to angle each speaker slightly left or right in an alternating pattern. Sounds like a great idea, since the best high frequency from these small full range speakers seems to be when listening head on. But how much of an angle is sensible? And should I just alternate just left and right, or should I do something like "center / left / center /right, etc.", in a repeating pattern?
2) I see some builders wire their speaker arrays so that the center drivers get the most power. but if the main problem I'm trying to solve is reaching those further back, in a room where bodies tend to block sound, shouldn't I be sending more power to the top speakers?
3) I've read a lot about the "comb" effect, which basically causes dead spots in the sound field when the speaker spacing is wrong. The rule of thumb (without 4 pages of math) seems to be to space the speakers no more than 1 wavelength apart for "far field" avoidence of the comb effect. But for 8 Khz, that would make even my little 2-1/2 speakers overlap. Obviously that doesn't make sense. Does anyone have any practical recommendations here (besides just putting them as close as physically possible?
4) Equipment weight vs good sound always seems to be a trade off. But these are small speakers, and their combined magnet weight is already going to be pretty significant if I use 12 of them. Need I make an array like this out of heavy particle board? Can I just get away with simple 1/2 inch birch plywood reinforced at the corners?
Thanks for any and all help!
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Hi Peter,
I've read quite a bit about arrays when I'd planned my first build, bought the drivers before I really knew what I was doing and ended up abandoning the project once I gained enough knowledge and realised it wasn't going to work with what I'd gotten.
Anyway;
1) Bose have a poor reputation here. I'm not sure I'd take any inspiration from their newer designs but I know little about their "Pro" gear.
2/3) You're going to get comb filtering with 2-1/2 drivers, some folk might try eq their way out of that, other use power shading you mention (interesting idea about putting more power to the top unit, not sure about that) another idea is the CBT
Don Keele's CBT (Constant Beamwidth Transducer) Page
Arrays are really interesting and there's a tonne of info here about them. Look forward to seeing what you do.
My Experience with Column Systems
Roger Russells' site is very interesting too.
I've read quite a bit about arrays when I'd planned my first build, bought the drivers before I really knew what I was doing and ended up abandoning the project once I gained enough knowledge and realised it wasn't going to work with what I'd gotten.
Anyway;
1) Bose have a poor reputation here. I'm not sure I'd take any inspiration from their newer designs but I know little about their "Pro" gear.
2/3) You're going to get comb filtering with 2-1/2 drivers, some folk might try eq their way out of that, other use power shading you mention (interesting idea about putting more power to the top unit, not sure about that) another idea is the CBT
Don Keele's CBT (Constant Beamwidth Transducer) Page
Arrays are really interesting and there's a tonne of info here about them. Look forward to seeing what you do.
My Experience with Column Systems
Roger Russells' site is very interesting too.
Thanks. Someone just made a counter claim about the comb affect on another forum, pointing out this page. Its a pretty neat demo actually, and the argument SEEMS to make sense, *IF* it is the FAR field I'm most concerned about. This may be helpful to me because indeed, its the problem of the audio 20 feet out that is most interesting to me. My existing floor speakers cover the near field pretty well as as. Take alook...
Wave Diffraction | AS A Level Physics Revision
Check out wesayso's two towers thread.
There's a mountain of information in there... but you might want to use the search function within that thread... it's a beast!
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...o-towers-25-driver-full-range-line-array.html
There's a mountain of information in there... but you might want to use the search function within that thread... it's a beast!
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...o-towers-25-driver-full-range-line-array.html
I have encountered two line array speaker systems in my life. The first was a pair of Phillips "column speakers" used in my elementary school. From faded childhood memory, each column contained a number of elliptical (maybe 5"x7") drivers, and was several feet long. In use as a P.A. system, hung flat against a wall, they provided legible speech to a few hundred children. Music reproduction quality was about the same as a small AM radio of the period - passable mids, but quite limited frequency range, with both treble and bass severely lacking.
The second line array I've heard was just a few years ago, and was a Fishman SA220 Solo Amp used by a singer/songwriter/guitarist. The SA220 contained about six little drivers (3" or 4", I would guess), with a central tweeter, in a mailing-tube sized enclosure.
The owner of the Fishman was happy with it; it was light, compact, and easy to set up.
He must have had tin ears, because to me, the SA220 sounded utterly vile. Get a three-foot length of 4" PVC sewer pipe, and speak or sing into one end: what do you sound like at the other end? That is the same unmistakable timbre that the SA220 had. Just nasty.
Clearly the problem was the air-column inside the long, skinny enclosure, acting like an organ pipe, with it's ton of resonant frequencies. Speak through a long tube like that, and your voice gets coloured by all these resonances. Your brain immediately identifies that sound and says "He's speaking through a tube".
The same problem afflicts speaker drivers mounted in a long tube - the pipe resonances strongly colour the sound, to the point where all you hear is that "speaking through a tube" sound.
In addition to the nasty timbre, the SA220 also had drastically curtailed bass. Bass was maybe adequate for an ukulele or a mandolin, but audibly short-changed the owners dreadnaught guitar.
Treble? What there was, was shrill and shrieky. Probably not the fault of the lone tweeter, but rather, of the six tiny "full range" speakers.
I understand the basic theory behind the line array; it is identical to the physics of diffraction gratings in classical optics. In principle, you get one main lobe of tightly beamed sound in the vertical direction, along with horizontal dispersion no worse than one individual driver.
Unfortunately, in practice, there are many pitfalls. The first is the inevitable problem of small, full-range drivers: they really don't exist, being inevitably too small for good bass, and too big for good treble. They usually sound horrid, like the little speakers built into many of todays TVs. You can EQ them to be flatter in frequency, but you can't EQ away the cone break-up in the mids and trebles. You can add tweeters, but a line array of tweeters has its own problems, including too-tight vertical beaming, and all sorts of other weird dispersion problems may show up, too.
The second problem is pipe resonances in the long, skinny enclosure. In principle they could be controlled with lots of acoustic stuffing. In practice, it is rather hard to get good sound from a long, skinny pipe of an enclosure.
So far, for me, it has been two for two when it comes to line arrays and mediocre sound. The ancient Phillips system at least functioned as it's designers intended, but the sound was definitely mid-fi at best. The recent Fishman system was, frankly, awful. Only appealing if you had tin ears and a sore back, so the small size and weight won out over everything else.
On enthusiast websites and forums like this one, line arrays are often highly praised. Perhaps the praise is justified, perhaps those DIY speakers are seen through rose-coloured glasses. I don't know, so I'll reserve judgement. But it's noteworthy that when accurate sound is priority #1 - for example, in expensive monitoring speakers used in music studios - there seem to be no line arrays to be found.
To me, the line array is one of those appealing-at-first-glance ideas (like cold fusion or flying cars) that rarely, if ever, pans out well in reality.
-Gnobuddy
The second line array I've heard was just a few years ago, and was a Fishman SA220 Solo Amp used by a singer/songwriter/guitarist. The SA220 contained about six little drivers (3" or 4", I would guess), with a central tweeter, in a mailing-tube sized enclosure.
The owner of the Fishman was happy with it; it was light, compact, and easy to set up.
He must have had tin ears, because to me, the SA220 sounded utterly vile. Get a three-foot length of 4" PVC sewer pipe, and speak or sing into one end: what do you sound like at the other end? That is the same unmistakable timbre that the SA220 had. Just nasty.
Clearly the problem was the air-column inside the long, skinny enclosure, acting like an organ pipe, with it's ton of resonant frequencies. Speak through a long tube like that, and your voice gets coloured by all these resonances. Your brain immediately identifies that sound and says "He's speaking through a tube".
The same problem afflicts speaker drivers mounted in a long tube - the pipe resonances strongly colour the sound, to the point where all you hear is that "speaking through a tube" sound.
In addition to the nasty timbre, the SA220 also had drastically curtailed bass. Bass was maybe adequate for an ukulele or a mandolin, but audibly short-changed the owners dreadnaught guitar.
Treble? What there was, was shrill and shrieky. Probably not the fault of the lone tweeter, but rather, of the six tiny "full range" speakers.
I understand the basic theory behind the line array; it is identical to the physics of diffraction gratings in classical optics. In principle, you get one main lobe of tightly beamed sound in the vertical direction, along with horizontal dispersion no worse than one individual driver.
Unfortunately, in practice, there are many pitfalls. The first is the inevitable problem of small, full-range drivers: they really don't exist, being inevitably too small for good bass, and too big for good treble. They usually sound horrid, like the little speakers built into many of todays TVs. You can EQ them to be flatter in frequency, but you can't EQ away the cone break-up in the mids and trebles. You can add tweeters, but a line array of tweeters has its own problems, including too-tight vertical beaming, and all sorts of other weird dispersion problems may show up, too.
The second problem is pipe resonances in the long, skinny enclosure. In principle they could be controlled with lots of acoustic stuffing. In practice, it is rather hard to get good sound from a long, skinny pipe of an enclosure.
So far, for me, it has been two for two when it comes to line arrays and mediocre sound. The ancient Phillips system at least functioned as it's designers intended, but the sound was definitely mid-fi at best. The recent Fishman system was, frankly, awful. Only appealing if you had tin ears and a sore back, so the small size and weight won out over everything else.
On enthusiast websites and forums like this one, line arrays are often highly praised. Perhaps the praise is justified, perhaps those DIY speakers are seen through rose-coloured glasses. I don't know, so I'll reserve judgement. But it's noteworthy that when accurate sound is priority #1 - for example, in expensive monitoring speakers used in music studios - there seem to be no line arrays to be found.
To me, the line array is one of those appealing-at-first-glance ideas (like cold fusion or flying cars) that rarely, if ever, pans out well in reality.
-Gnobuddy
I see you didn't even bother to look at the link I posted right above your post.
Statements like that are very dismissive of all the work many people have done and proven that line arrays CAN work, and work very well, given the proper execution of the concept.
You've listened to two badly executed ones, I'm sorry that you couldn't find anything better.
But even a regular 2-way speaker, done badly, will sound terrible. I've heard plenty of examples, and yet, I don't say all 2-way speakers are bad.
Since you don't want to trouble yourself looking up the info, here's something for you to look at and maybe realise that what you heard what not representative of a proper line array setup.
FR and phase:
Impulse:
Time coherence:
Statements like that are very dismissive of all the work many people have done and proven that line arrays CAN work, and work very well, given the proper execution of the concept.
You've listened to two badly executed ones, I'm sorry that you couldn't find anything better.
But even a regular 2-way speaker, done badly, will sound terrible. I've heard plenty of examples, and yet, I don't say all 2-way speakers are bad.
Since you don't want to trouble yourself looking up the info, here's something for you to look at and maybe realise that what you heard what not representative of a proper line array setup.
FR and phase:
Impulse:
Time coherence:
Okay, line arrays like these are difficult. I'll assume you've read the papers linked above.
You can have a read of my findings here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/293761-small-pa-line-array.html
Here's a summary, though:
- The papers talking about line arrays in a domestic environment aren't worth much here. We're working at hugely variable distances, from 2m to 20m. As a result, "nearfield array" doesn't apply here. You might be near-field, you might be far-field, you might be in the transition area.
- You need EQ. When you get all that vertical directivity added by the long line of drivers, there's a huge midrange boost. This is a job for DSP or a selection of analogue filters. Don't do it with speaker-level stuff, its not gonna happen. With DSP, you're gonna need a measurement mic.
- I'd aim for a speaker that tends towards point-source. I know that goes against the whole line array concept, but hear me out. If you have a long line of drivers (long compared to the wavelength you're trying to reproduce), sound falls off at 3dB per doubling of distance. If the line array is short, sound falls off at 6dB per doubling of distance. If you get the speaker EQ'd flat at 5m, at 10m there'll be 3dB too much treble. At 2.5m the treble will be down 3dB. You can only get a flat response at one distance using a line array. All other distances will be compromised. If you use a speaker that's a point source (or close enough not to notice), output will fall off at 6dB/octave no matter the frequency. It'll just get louder or quieter as you move around. I did it be putting inductors on the bottom 9 drivers of a 12 driver array. There's slightly more output up at >10kHz when you move over large distances (because at those wavelengths, even just 3 drivers will give you some line array effects), but its perfectly usable.
FWIW, I used 5mm MDF. Fine so far, though that was the prototype - it hasn't been gigged yet.
Chris
You can have a read of my findings here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/293761-small-pa-line-array.html
Here's a summary, though:
- The papers talking about line arrays in a domestic environment aren't worth much here. We're working at hugely variable distances, from 2m to 20m. As a result, "nearfield array" doesn't apply here. You might be near-field, you might be far-field, you might be in the transition area.
- You need EQ. When you get all that vertical directivity added by the long line of drivers, there's a huge midrange boost. This is a job for DSP or a selection of analogue filters. Don't do it with speaker-level stuff, its not gonna happen. With DSP, you're gonna need a measurement mic.
- I'd aim for a speaker that tends towards point-source. I know that goes against the whole line array concept, but hear me out. If you have a long line of drivers (long compared to the wavelength you're trying to reproduce), sound falls off at 3dB per doubling of distance. If the line array is short, sound falls off at 6dB per doubling of distance. If you get the speaker EQ'd flat at 5m, at 10m there'll be 3dB too much treble. At 2.5m the treble will be down 3dB. You can only get a flat response at one distance using a line array. All other distances will be compromised. If you use a speaker that's a point source (or close enough not to notice), output will fall off at 6dB/octave no matter the frequency. It'll just get louder or quieter as you move around. I did it be putting inductors on the bottom 9 drivers of a 12 driver array. There's slightly more output up at >10kHz when you move over large distances (because at those wavelengths, even just 3 drivers will give you some line array effects), but its perfectly usable.
FWIW, I used 5mm MDF. Fine so far, though that was the prototype - it hasn't been gigged yet.
Chris
I built some 9-driver arrays. I was a bit disappointed, but I could hear the potential.
I built 16-driver arrays, and that brought a smile to my face.... 25-driver arrays would have brought a huge grin I'm sure (those were 3" drivers).
Yes, the one thing that arrays need is the ability to EQ quite strongly.
Finding a driver with a rising response will also make it easier to deal with comb filtering and will need less EQ.
The best way as we have found lately, is to use a computer and apps like Foobar or even better, JRiver. Will also need a soundcard. Combining Line Arrays with FIR filters, and you are approaching nirvana.
I built 16-driver arrays, and that brought a smile to my face.... 25-driver arrays would have brought a huge grin I'm sure (those were 3" drivers).
Yes, the one thing that arrays need is the ability to EQ quite strongly.
Finding a driver with a rising response will also make it easier to deal with comb filtering and will need less EQ.
The best way as we have found lately, is to use a computer and apps like Foobar or even better, JRiver. Will also need a soundcard. Combining Line Arrays with FIR filters, and you are approaching nirvana.
Nonsense. In fact, I've seen that thread before. I have also read many interesting articles about cold fusion, and many more about flying cars.
Both those things actually exist - there have in fact been dozens of demonstrations of cold fusion (all turn out to be wrong or deliberate fakery), and demonstrations of a number of flying cars. The cars all remain expensive, impractical, noisy, consume gasoline at frightening rates, are unsafe, and ultimately, unnecessary.
No, the old Phillips one met the designers intended goals. In that sense, it wasn't badly executed. The goal was AM-radio quality sound for P.A. use from two light, relatively small speaker enclosures, and that goal was met.
That didn't didn't stop the sound from being mediocre, though.
I'm not. Why waste your time beating your head against an expensive, complicated, and frequently unsuccessful concept? My non-flying car gets me to work and back quite routinely.
The difference being, I've never heard a good-sounding line array, while I've heard plenty of regular 2 and 3 way ones.
You haven't addressed my point that there are no line arrays in professional studio monitoring. Why do you suppose that is?
Nonsense again. You can't actually read my mind, you know.
Nice measurements. It also looks very expensive, and very unnecessary. Very much like the flying cars routinely reported in Popular Mechanics and similar magazines.
-Gnobuddy
So, in your very apt reasoning, if you would have been George Mallory and someone asked you "Why do you want to climb Mount Everest?" Your answer would have been "Why would I want to? It's way too big and there's nothing there."
I prefer the answer from the real George Mallory: "Because it's there".
I, myself, built a pair of line arrays, for a lot less money than most people buy a small 2-way set of speakers. They were absolutely amazing.
But, what am I doing here? I'm replying to a troll...
I would love to read from the OP instead.
I prefer the answer from the real George Mallory: "Because it's there".
I, myself, built a pair of line arrays, for a lot less money than most people buy a small 2-way set of speakers. They were absolutely amazing.
But, what am I doing here? I'm replying to a troll...
I would love to read from the OP instead.
I did a study of comb filtering with my arrays. Check it out:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...line-array-using-vifa-tc9-13.html#post4584879
Lesson: Sit at least 1.5 to 2 times the length of the array away from the array.
It is a pity that your past line array experiences were not so good. But as with any design, it is all about execution. Using the right drivers and the right EQ, it is possible to get fantastic sound from arrays. There are at least 3 people on this forum who have successfully implemented floor-to-ceiling arrays.
Arrays have a lot going for them in the home environment:
1. Small footprint. This benefit is not to be underestimated.
2. Very low distortion. Each driver barely moves.
3. Vertical dispersion control down to very low frequencies. Floor and ceiling reflections are the worst offenders when it comes to coloring the sound. Floor-to-ceiling arrays neatly solve this problem.
The comparison of the array topology to cold fusion and flying cars is absurd. Arrays very much exist. They are bread and butter in the pro-audio arena. Go to any large venue and you will likely see arrays. In the home, there are many commercial offerings and there are plenty of folks who have documented their diy designs.
Cost of my design:
About $500 in drivers (50 Vifa TC9s). I asked my carpenter friend to build me the cabinets. We can add another $100 for cabinet materials. I am running FIR EQ on my computer--everything is free. Well, you can add $50 for JRiver. That's it. It is way cheaper than a boutique Scan-speak two-way.
With 25 TC9s, you can get to 20 Hz flat with EQ. Or, you can add a sub or three and have some parties.
I appreciate everything you've said, especially because it lays aside pages of analysis and gets right to the point.... you've heard them sound terrible! What is inspiring me here, however, is my own similar direct opposite experience. In a nutshell, the absolute best sound I've heard from small combos lately, in club settings where I know good sound 20 feet away is unlikely, has involved one of these columns. So someone is doing something right here, and no doubt some are NOT!
So my task, aside for the many white papers floating around, is to discuss it enough to have a fair chance of being on "right" side.I'm a musician too, but unfortunately my budget for equipment is limited. So when I go to look one of these musicians setup, and find that I too could have this sound for $1200 if I just buy what he/she did, I quickly jump to my DIY roots. I've built speakers before, just not one of these. But you have reminded me there is no "magic" here, and I'd damn sure better make sure I have my internal cavity resonances calculated, known, and yes... damped if necessary. I may even need to resort to internal baffling to increase the chamber's apparent length. And of course I intend to supplement the array with floor speakers that already provide plenty of low end. But right now I'm just gathering data, and trying to learn about the arrays that do sound good, and learn as much as I can about HOW some companies manage to get it right.
Trust me... some of these arrays offer a direct clarity and balance in rooms that should be a mass of echos and unwanted reverberations. Done right, they are amazing.
Yes, I agree, and I think this is the place where line arrays have an actual technical benefit to offer. When large areas and high SPL are involved, it becomes necessary to use a lot of drivers anyway. So the question is where to place them.
In the early days of rock music in arenas and stadiums, sound technicians placed dozens of nominally full-range speaker enclosures all over the place, hoping to get uniform coverage. Instead, they got terrible phasing and lobing and acoustic cancellation problems, with poor, and extremely variable, sound quality from one location to another.
In that situation, positioning speakers to create line arrays is definitely "less bad" than the alternative. However, large arena sound reinforcement systems are not exactly Hi-Fi; loud, yes, but almost always mediocre sound quality.
Perhaps people have extracted wonderful sound from home line arrays; my point was not that it is impossible, but rather, that it is rarely the shortest or most efficient path to good sound.
-Gnobuddy
RA7... first of all thanks for all the great graphs and explanations! I could not find a way to open the downloaded image, but you posted quite a bit right in that other thread. So...
So that is definitely a plus in my case. I already use a pair of floor speakers (my own bass reflex design) which has always served me well in the near field. I'm thinking (at this point) a 4 foot array, held approx 2 - 3 feet above the floor, as an addition to these existing speakers, specifically to enhance clarity at 20 feet out. In fact if the room were that small, I might not even plug in the array.
See, one of the reasons I'm looking for help here is because most of what I've read has emphasized usage at home, near field, and unassisted by additional traditional speakers or bass boxes. Either that or they discuss concert situations in venues that are either outside, or way bigger than anything I expect to perform at with my array. The ONLY places I've heard se arrays, and have been impressed, are in small club live situations, with typically horrendous echoing from the ceiling, and occasionally in elongated rooms. So here these arrays seem to excel, because they obviously do not project very well in the upwards direction (avoiding ceiling echos), AND provide more direct sound to listeners farther back.
So along those lines, what about this "shading" concept. Here I keep finding discussions about curved arrays faced downward slightly. I realize that common sense and measured reality often are at odds. BUT... I'm REASONABLY sure that in the venues I'd use my array, I would NOT want to be dependant on any reflective surface, certainly NOT the floor, which could be anything from cheap carpet to tile or cement. Well the speakers I've chosen (Peerless by Tymphany TC7FD00-04 2-1/2") also have narrow horizontal dispersion capabilities at the higher frequencies, similar to the ones you used. So here I need to either add multiple tweeters (which I'm trying to avoid) or plan to point speakers in different directions. My thoughts were to either alternate left/ right, or do a sequence like center-left-center-right-etc. What are your thoughts on doing this, and if you see merit in doing this, what kind of angles make sense? Again, keep in mind I'll only be using one of these... no separate left and right array as I might consider if it were a "home" design.
And now Gnobuddy has brought another topic to my mind. Obviously the design of the one he heard that sounded like singing in a tube did not take the resonance of the box into account at all. It would seem that despite the "cool" look of a sleek thin design, it probably would behove me to make the line array box deep and tall enough to have a resonant frequency below the lowest frequency of interest, assuming my lower frequencies are covered by other speakers. Does this make sense?
So that is definitely a plus in my case. I already use a pair of floor speakers (my own bass reflex design) which has always served me well in the near field. I'm thinking (at this point) a 4 foot array, held approx 2 - 3 feet above the floor, as an addition to these existing speakers, specifically to enhance clarity at 20 feet out. In fact if the room were that small, I might not even plug in the array.
See, one of the reasons I'm looking for help here is because most of what I've read has emphasized usage at home, near field, and unassisted by additional traditional speakers or bass boxes. Either that or they discuss concert situations in venues that are either outside, or way bigger than anything I expect to perform at with my array. The ONLY places I've heard se arrays, and have been impressed, are in small club live situations, with typically horrendous echoing from the ceiling, and occasionally in elongated rooms. So here these arrays seem to excel, because they obviously do not project very well in the upwards direction (avoiding ceiling echos), AND provide more direct sound to listeners farther back.
So along those lines, what about this "shading" concept. Here I keep finding discussions about curved arrays faced downward slightly. I realize that common sense and measured reality often are at odds.
BUT... I'm REASONABLY sure that in the venues I'd use my array, I would NOT want to be dependant on any reflective surface, certainly NOT the floor, which could be anything from cheap carpet to tile or cement. Well the speakers I've chosen (Peerless by Tymphany TC7FD00-04 2-1/2") also have narrow horizontal dispersion capabilities at the higher frequencies, similar to the ones you used. So here I need to either add multiple tweeters (which I'm trying to avoid) or plan to point speakers in different directions. My thoughts were to either alternate left/ right, or do a sequence like center-left-center-right-etc. What are your thoughts on doing this, and if you see merit in doing this, what kind of angles make sense? Again, keep in mind I'll only be using one of these... no separate left and right array as I might consider if it were a "home" design. And now Gnobuddy has brought another topic to my mind. Obviously the design of the one he heard that sounded like singing in a tube did not take the resonance of the box into account at all. It would seem that despite the "cool" look of a sleek thin design, it probably would behove me to make the line array box deep and tall enough to have a resonant frequency below the lowest frequency of interest, assuming my lower frequencies are covered by other speakers. Does this make sense?
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