Hugomac,
vis-a-vis tweeters blowing , in recording studios we find that tweeters get blown quite regularly, due to a variety of causes. Human error being the most common.
These NS-1000 tweeters are not cheap ( and if you think they are expensive I hope you never have to buy a pair of mid-range units..🙂
From a purist's perspective, what I'm going to suggest is only to be severely frowned upon....however here is a purely practical suggestion based on preservation of funds... and which has saved me literally thousands of pounds over a 30-year period with NS-1000's.
Get a pair of decent quality inline fuseholders ( like the gold ones they sell for car stereos nowadays). Put one into the positive line of each speaker cable, with a 2-amp fuse in each. Use normal -blow =F type fuses not slow-blow=T type.
If you can hear a difference remove them and carry on as before. If you can't hear a difference leave them in - then every time the fuses blow (if they do ), you will have saved yourself what I'm guessing to be probably 600 Australian dollars for a new pair of tweeters. Youwill also have a warm , happy feeling..🙂
vis-a-vis tweeters blowing , in recording studios we find that tweeters get blown quite regularly, due to a variety of causes. Human error being the most common.
These NS-1000 tweeters are not cheap ( and if you think they are expensive I hope you never have to buy a pair of mid-range units..🙂
From a purist's perspective, what I'm going to suggest is only to be severely frowned upon....however here is a purely practical suggestion based on preservation of funds... and which has saved me literally thousands of pounds over a 30-year period with NS-1000's.
Get a pair of decent quality inline fuseholders ( like the gold ones they sell for car stereos nowadays). Put one into the positive line of each speaker cable, with a 2-amp fuse in each. Use normal -blow =F type fuses not slow-blow=T type.
If you can hear a difference remove them and carry on as before. If you can't hear a difference leave them in - then every time the fuses blow (if they do ), you will have saved yourself what I'm guessing to be probably 600 Australian dollars for a new pair of tweeters. Youwill also have a warm , happy feeling..🙂
Hugo mac
here are my recommendations in order of experimentation
1) replace all caps for like wise values with non electrolytic s. The biggest bargain out there especially for the 47uf caps are the very cheap DUCATI ENERGI caps used as motor starters.They have a clarity and refinement not matched by more well known brands that would cost tens if not hundreds of pounds.Next best kept secret is to buy the PETP caps from the several and trustworthy Ukraine sellers on Ebay. These caps are Superior to the audionote aluminium caps,and that is saying something. These petp caps are the most transparent sounding detailed caps i know of and they cost PENNIES. To get all these caps onto the board may mean you will have to build external crossovers as i did.
Do not change the inductors, i have tried many brands with poor benefit.
Next remove the wool ONLY behind the woofer and you will be met with more detail and presence,in quite a dramatic way. However this can become too much, too bright and a little lean in the midrange/upper bass. Now you need to change the internal cabling to balance this out. Audionote silver is expensive but in my opinion was the best matched with the speakers, van den hul carbon made the midrange sound sublime but not recommended for the woofer or tweeter. You will need to do a little bit of balancing out here to get the right sound.
I would say the most startling change in sound was by removing the wool in the lower chamber of the speakers, but that was after i had already changed the caps.
he best amps for these speakers in my opinion are VAlve amps. SET push pull and now otl's all worked really well.Even 15w set 300B's sound beautiful on these speakers. However 70 watt units make the most of the speakers dynamic capabilities. BUT these must be quality valve amps.Jadis Audio Note and Atmasphere have all worked beautifully,
Lesser amps like quad 909, those numerous chinese valve amps did not work so well in my set up.
here are my recommendations in order of experimentation
1) replace all caps for like wise values with non electrolytic s. The biggest bargain out there especially for the 47uf caps are the very cheap DUCATI ENERGI caps used as motor starters.They have a clarity and refinement not matched by more well known brands that would cost tens if not hundreds of pounds.Next best kept secret is to buy the PETP caps from the several and trustworthy Ukraine sellers on Ebay. These caps are Superior to the audionote aluminium caps,and that is saying something. These petp caps are the most transparent sounding detailed caps i know of and they cost PENNIES. To get all these caps onto the board may mean you will have to build external crossovers as i did.
Do not change the inductors, i have tried many brands with poor benefit.
Next remove the wool ONLY behind the woofer and you will be met with more detail and presence,in quite a dramatic way. However this can become too much, too bright and a little lean in the midrange/upper bass. Now you need to change the internal cabling to balance this out. Audionote silver is expensive but in my opinion was the best matched with the speakers, van den hul carbon made the midrange sound sublime but not recommended for the woofer or tweeter. You will need to do a little bit of balancing out here to get the right sound.
I would say the most startling change in sound was by removing the wool in the lower chamber of the speakers, but that was after i had already changed the caps.
he best amps for these speakers in my opinion are VAlve amps. SET push pull and now otl's all worked really well.Even 15w set 300B's sound beautiful on these speakers. However 70 watt units make the most of the speakers dynamic capabilities. BUT these must be quality valve amps.Jadis Audio Note and Atmasphere have all worked beautifully,
Lesser amps like quad 909, those numerous chinese valve amps did not work so well in my set up.
Audiojoy
Very interested to read your comments on valve amps with NS-1000's .
The only time I have ever heard them driven by valves was when I did a rebuild on a Leak Stereo 20 which I'd had lying around for ages and decided to sell. I used NS-1000's just for a quick audio test of the result , and I have to say I was surprised in a very positive way, - and most especially by the bass end.
Thanks for the very useful cap info!
Very interested to read your comments on valve amps with NS-1000's .
The only time I have ever heard them driven by valves was when I did a rebuild on a Leak Stereo 20 which I'd had lying around for ages and decided to sell. I used NS-1000's just for a quick audio test of the result , and I have to say I was surprised in a very positive way, - and most especially by the bass end.
Thanks for the very useful cap info!
hi all,
great thread. kent and i are good buddies ;-)
i also have a clean pair of NS-1000M.
here's the system for reference:
McIntosh MC60 tube monoblocks (60 watts)
Yamaha C-70 preamp
Yamaha NS-1000M speakers
REL Q100 subwoofer
Theta DSPro GEN III DAC
Theta Data II transport
Technics SL-1600MK2 turntable (cardas tonearm rewire + 10 coat Lexus metallic gold mist paintjob ;-)
Denon DL-103 cartridge
DIY silver interconnects and bluejeans 10 gauge belden speaker wire.
hugomac - well, too bad you didn't blow the tweeters last year - partstore.com stocked them for $82 US. they are no longer carried - though you could contact them and beg ;-)
honestly, you blew the tweeters NOT because of the power of your amp, but because the amp was most likely clipping into distortion.
IMHO, there's no added benefit to gunning the tweeter/mid controls to the max - you are over powering the woofer - i.e. screaming highs and no bass.
i listen with the mids dialed back 1/3 the way and the tweeters just a touch forward - maybe 10-15%.
i agree that tubes sound great with the NS-1000M. they are 90db sensitive. good, but not horns - tubes with 35wpc or more is recommended.
i'd love to hear the speakers with a Yamaha B1 or B2 V-Fet amp - but they are getting quite scarce these days. next best thing (or probably better anyway) would be to try some Pass amps with J-Fets?
see ya,
Robby
great thread. kent and i are good buddies ;-)
i also have a clean pair of NS-1000M.
here's the system for reference:
McIntosh MC60 tube monoblocks (60 watts)
Yamaha C-70 preamp
Yamaha NS-1000M speakers
REL Q100 subwoofer
Theta DSPro GEN III DAC
Theta Data II transport
Technics SL-1600MK2 turntable (cardas tonearm rewire + 10 coat Lexus metallic gold mist paintjob ;-)
Denon DL-103 cartridge
DIY silver interconnects and bluejeans 10 gauge belden speaker wire.
hugomac - well, too bad you didn't blow the tweeters last year - partstore.com stocked them for $82 US. they are no longer carried - though you could contact them and beg ;-)
honestly, you blew the tweeters NOT because of the power of your amp, but because the amp was most likely clipping into distortion.
IMHO, there's no added benefit to gunning the tweeter/mid controls to the max - you are over powering the woofer - i.e. screaming highs and no bass.
i listen with the mids dialed back 1/3 the way and the tweeters just a touch forward - maybe 10-15%.
i agree that tubes sound great with the NS-1000M. they are 90db sensitive. good, but not horns - tubes with 35wpc or more is recommended.
i'd love to hear the speakers with a Yamaha B1 or B2 V-Fet amp - but they are getting quite scarce these days. next best thing (or probably better anyway) would be to try some Pass amps with J-Fets?
see ya,
Robby
I have now added a pair of diy dipole subwoofers with an electronic crossover . This has added great depth, definition and power to the bass notes especially double bass in Jazz recordings . These subwoofers have added to the Yams and not subtracted from it any of its wonderful mid and upper range. The electronic crossover brings the woofers in at 100hz. Also being dipoles in push pull configuration means their speed easily keeps up with the YAMs and are a superb match.
For ultimate benefit the subwoofers need to sit a foot in front of NOT behind the YAMS. The power amp is a yam p2500 and you need every watt of that powerful amplifier to get the effect I described. Weaker power amps will not suffice
Impressed as for once I have been able to match a subwoofer with main speakers without slowing the rhythm down and sounding lumpy.
Highly recommended
For ultimate benefit the subwoofers need to sit a foot in front of NOT behind the YAMS. The power amp is a yam p2500 and you need every watt of that powerful amplifier to get the effect I described. Weaker power amps will not suffice
Impressed as for once I have been able to match a subwoofer with main speakers without slowing the rhythm down and sounding lumpy.
Highly recommended
Do you use the Jadis Defy 7 for the mains? How much voltage on its output stage fuses for bias? A picture of the whole system would be nice. No filter for the Yams? What woofers for the dipoles?
Hi Salas
I am still using the JAdis with all its changes but i have been charmed by my recent acquisition of the OTL Atmasphere M60's. Dont have the power and solidity of the Jadis, but as they say remove the output transformers and you remove a window of haze..... which is the most exciting phenomena you experience with OTL's. My Jadis is getting less and less use now.
The subwoofers are peerless 10" long throw xls model. I may consider bringing back out my stacked quad 57's with my newly built subwoofers. With the the ribboin tweeters I wonder if they can now become a match at the frequency extremes with the YAMs. I still do not think they will be able to compete with the YAMS dyanamics thou.
I am still using the JAdis with all its changes but i have been charmed by my recent acquisition of the OTL Atmasphere M60's. Dont have the power and solidity of the Jadis, but as they say remove the output transformers and you remove a window of haze..... which is the most exciting phenomena you experience with OTL's. My Jadis is getting less and less use now.
The subwoofers are peerless 10" long throw xls model. I may consider bringing back out my stacked quad 57's with my newly built subwoofers. With the the ribboin tweeters I wonder if they can now become a match at the frequency extremes with the YAMs. I still do not think they will be able to compete with the YAMS dyanamics thou.
Yes, I have listened to Atmaspheres many times. They are like air.
Good choice. I have asked you about the Jadis because I have fitted KT88s to one lately and with 5.5V average on its fuses it played much better than with its EI KT90 originals. Substantially more transparent and heftier.
Good choice. I have asked you about the Jadis because I have fitted KT88s to one lately and with 5.5V average on its fuses it played much better than with its EI KT90 originals. Substantially more transparent and heftier.
Agreed Salas, i have the kt88 (lion new copies) and prefer them also to the EI KT90. My average voltage is about 4.5v.
The Jadis amps are still exhilarating to listen to becasue of the power, solidity and dynamics of the sound. But that Output transformer is now more obviously present when you listen to an OTL. I hope this is not psycho acoustic. Another way of describing the difference in sound is that with the OTL, the sound has a smoothness and refinement whereas the Jadis can sound 'fragmented' digitalised'...... difficult to describe exactly but certainly a new phenomena for me. Akin to analogue versus digital sounds in some ways, but certainly nothing to do with lack of emotional involvement as both types do that really well. It is more how the sound images are prsesented. Furthermore the OTL is more transparent and detailed than the Jadis which is the more typical description of an OTL. Add to this a more superior bass, more like solid state than valve, and a quicker timing to the notes.
Dont get me wrong the otl has other flaws, it can sound harmonically lean in the lower mid/upper bass, which is very noticeable.
The Jadis amps are still exhilarating to listen to becasue of the power, solidity and dynamics of the sound. But that Output transformer is now more obviously present when you listen to an OTL. I hope this is not psycho acoustic. Another way of describing the difference in sound is that with the OTL, the sound has a smoothness and refinement whereas the Jadis can sound 'fragmented' digitalised'...... difficult to describe exactly but certainly a new phenomena for me. Akin to analogue versus digital sounds in some ways, but certainly nothing to do with lack of emotional involvement as both types do that really well. It is more how the sound images are prsesented. Furthermore the OTL is more transparent and detailed than the Jadis which is the more typical description of an OTL. Add to this a more superior bass, more like solid state than valve, and a quicker timing to the notes.
Dont get me wrong the otl has other flaws, it can sound harmonically lean in the lower mid/upper bass, which is very noticeable.
True, the OTL can sound free and quick as air but needing for body. Using your bass dipoles can add to the mid bass a lot when the right crossover is dialed in though.
BeachMountain I have heard so much regarding going active i think I may also give it a go.
Salas what do you think? What might be the best way to do it??
Salas what do you think? What might be the best way to do it??
To get the passive curves with careful measurement and transfer them to an advanced processor for emulation.
Hello Audiojoy and Salas.
This may be the answer:
http://www.thevintageknob.org/YAMAHA/NS1000/NS1000.html#
Press the "more"-buttons to view the original frequency- and polar plots. X/o are at 500 & 6k, 12 dB/oct. I think any good-quality professional active x/o will do. Most have 24 dB/oct slopes, with Linkwitz-Riley characteristics.
If you want to "build your own", go digital with dbx DriverackPA or 260.
Links:http://www.dbxpro.com/products.php.
If price is important, go for Omnitronic DXO-26. Link to German retailer:http://www.prolighting.de/Artikel/3...TRONIC_DXO_26_Pro_digitale_Frequenzweiche.htm
It is available under several different brand names, but is excellent nonetheless.
Have had excellent results with both.
Good Luck.🙂
This may be the answer:
http://www.thevintageknob.org/YAMAHA/NS1000/NS1000.html#
Press the "more"-buttons to view the original frequency- and polar plots. X/o are at 500 & 6k, 12 dB/oct. I think any good-quality professional active x/o will do. Most have 24 dB/oct slopes, with Linkwitz-Riley characteristics.
If you want to "build your own", go digital with dbx DriverackPA or 260.
Links:http://www.dbxpro.com/products.php.
If price is important, go for Omnitronic DXO-26. Link to German retailer:http://www.prolighting.de/Artikel/3...TRONIC_DXO_26_Pro_digitale_Frequenzweiche.htm
It is available under several different brand names, but is excellent nonetheless.
Have had excellent results with both.
Good Luck.🙂
Never from published charts, never with using textbook slopes on cheap processors. For the quality that Audiojoy shoots for: Calibrated mic, ARTA impulse responses, migration to advanced first rate processor or dedicated PC. Mimic exact measured delays between drivers. Else, it will be an active 3 way with Yamaha drivers and box. Not an active NS-1000. Just my 2c.
another question for Salas (or anyone else) if I may:
Have you heard the Klein + Hummel 0 300? It is a contemporary powered 3-way in a small box withe a 200 mm bass driver, a 75 mm soft dome mid and a 25 mm tweeter in a small waveguide. It sounds bigger than it is.
I heard a pair last week and was very impressed in the apparent truth of the tonality, especially in the lower mid range/upper bass (90 - 300 Hz) which many speakers seem to get wrong, and the low distortion in the mids. The mid dome is reputedly made by ATC. Crossover frequencies are 650Hz and 3300Hz.
Since the configuration reminded me of the NS1000M, with the large mid dome and sealed encloure, I wondered if there was any similarity in sound.
I have an opportunity to buy a pair of NS1000s for $1300 Canadian, but by the time suitable amplification is factored in (the K+H is internally tri-amped) the price is about the same - the K+Hs cost around $4500 Canadian.
Almost ready to pull the trigger on the K+H 0 300s plus one 0 800 subwoofer, but my concern is that the Yamahas might be better - and not just a little!
Russell
Have you heard the Klein + Hummel 0 300? It is a contemporary powered 3-way in a small box withe a 200 mm bass driver, a 75 mm soft dome mid and a 25 mm tweeter in a small waveguide. It sounds bigger than it is.
I heard a pair last week and was very impressed in the apparent truth of the tonality, especially in the lower mid range/upper bass (90 - 300 Hz) which many speakers seem to get wrong, and the low distortion in the mids. The mid dome is reputedly made by ATC. Crossover frequencies are 650Hz and 3300Hz.
Since the configuration reminded me of the NS1000M, with the large mid dome and sealed encloure, I wondered if there was any similarity in sound.
I have an opportunity to buy a pair of NS1000s for $1300 Canadian, but by the time suitable amplification is factored in (the K+H is internally tri-amped) the price is about the same - the K+Hs cost around $4500 Canadian.
Almost ready to pull the trigger on the K+H 0 300s plus one 0 800 subwoofer, but my concern is that the Yamahas might be better - and not just a little!
Russell
I have not listened to the K+H. But you are talking very serious studio monitor class here. The active route is masterly implemented in such speakers filter wise. Off course the internal amps quality is carved in stone. And it can't be like using external amps and processor of choice, but this is only theoretical because you must have the pocket, the enthusiasm, the measurement gear, and be knowledgeable like Lynn Olson, so to pull it off masterly for activating the Yams. It is very likely that they may outshine the passive Yamaha as a whole. On the other hand the Yams have their unique Be drivers tone, and they can be hooked up to any amp like Audiojoy's exquisite tube gear. Go listen to the Yams if you can and compare. Hopefully someone will appear here that have heard both and tell more concrete stuff.
I have posted before regarding NS-1000 Tweeters. I really desperate & will pay what ever any would like for new or used tweeters part no. JA 05130. Could someone please help as i really can't listen to my favorite things in the whole world with only one channel working. It's PAINFUL.
Any sort of reply would be greatly appreciated, i've been boasting to alot of my friends about these speakers but unfortunately can't play them the way they are.
PLEASE HELP........
Any sort of reply would be greatly appreciated, i've been boasting to alot of my friends about these speakers but unfortunately can't play them the way they are.
PLEASE HELP........
Hi hugomac,
the last time I went to buy any tweeters ( maybe two years ago ) Yamaha in the UK refused to supply directly, and I had to order them from a Yamaha dealer in the North of England, who had them in stock.
I will try hard to dig up this company's details for you. and post them here if I'm successful.
the last time I went to buy any tweeters ( maybe two years ago ) Yamaha in the UK refused to supply directly, and I had to order them from a Yamaha dealer in the North of England, who had them in stock.
I will try hard to dig up this company's details for you. and post them here if I'm successful.