a stock Eminence 3K5 network (more like 2K8 on the highpass) is 3rd order highpass, 2nd lowpass electrically and would fit inside XKi for Beta8cx. The CD would not sound stained as the original APT50 played well with that network.
X- what do you think would be the difference between an XKi's sound and an R-J down as below? Would that aperture have some good points? There typically would be very little front "cavity" with the R-J compared to the 2:1 rear to front volumes employed in a lot of your XKi alignments.
The sub- baffle could set on 0.75" or so cleans, and of course, the back wave exits the aperture.
X- what do you think would be the difference between an XKi's sound and an R-J down as below? Would that aperture have some good points? There typically would be very little front "cavity" with the R-J compared to the 2:1 rear to front volumes employed in a lot of your XKi alignments.
The sub- baffle could set on 0.75" or so cleans, and of course, the back wave exits the aperture.
I have always wanted to build an RJ. But it really is very similar to a dual vent XKi with a diamond aperture. I don’t think the front cavity volume is a huge effect as there is a gaping hole there.
I think you will like the tang band. i put cardboard lining in the wings. The box is not large and they look so nice you don't want to cover them up.
I love the r-j speaker boxes. Did they make the lemon shaped hole also? Where they all kind of squareish?
I love the r-j speaker boxes. Did they make the lemon shaped hole also? Where they all kind of squareish?
the lemon aperture R-J was the more common model. The earlier ones had the tilted diamond hole. They work pretty well.
The 8 inch R-J cabinet must had been one of the earliest "bookshelf" enclosures with ~2:1 front aspect
here's my slimline R-J12 from the rear
The 8 inch R-J cabinet must had been one of the earliest "bookshelf" enclosures with ~2:1 front aspect
here's my slimline R-J12 from the rear
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X - do you think Dayton's PA310 might sound too muted in an XKi? MMJ felt it was mellow for his Karlflex. A PA310 XKi migjht make a cool "FAST" with XKi-ed FR - -?
also X and guyz - is there an XKi 12" combo as alternative to Karlsonator 12 to try? GregB's Karlsonator is tuned to 37Hz. I'm interested in something somewhat more compact, tuned higher, extremely punchy - yet smooth
I'd like to hear that 15 inch XKi. btw - Karlson's K12 , tho limited on the bottom, can sound very nice with some speakers. (if one likes Ks 😀)
I'd like to hear that 15 inch XKi. btw - Karlson's K12 , tho limited on the bottom, can sound very nice with some speakers. (if one likes Ks 😀)
The PA310 is a really nice driver - great value at $60 for a fabric accordion surround, 96dB, spring clips, huge magnet with 0.29 Qts.
I think it should sim very nicely in an XKi maybe 1.5 cu ft.
I think it should sim very nicely in an XKi maybe 1.5 cu ft.
PA310 is about 3-4dB less sensitive than Kappa12A, higher moving mass (~70g vs 42 for Kappa12a) but more xmax, good motor/power handling and an interestingly doped cone which goes smoothly as a direct radiator on-axis "way up".
What would the PA310 XKi look like in overall size, vent and response?
here's PA310's response chart - I stretched the vertical 200%
oddly enough - it sounded like it was under water in comparison to Kappa 12a when each were in a Karlson "K12"
(a distributed slit vent K12 is tuned about 63Hz small signal I bet that chokes up with any significant drive)
What would the PA310 XKi look like in overall size, vent and response?
here's PA310's response chart - I stretched the vertical 200%
oddly enough - it sounded like it was under water in comparison to Kappa 12a when each were in a Karlson "K12"
(a distributed slit vent K12 is tuned about 63Hz small signal I bet that chokes up with any significant drive)
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Playing all the way up to 5k with a 12" speaker? Sweet. After my hearing test, that is about all I need.
PA310 may well make that graph, but in a K12, sounded absolutely horrible with deep holes in its response and pretty much like it was under water. In contrast Eminence's old B102 sounded pretty decent in the same style K12. Both had a K-tube for helper. Higher moving mass doesn't seem to always work in a Karlson. I had EV SP1%B with qts >1 in K15 and those were reasonably "musical"
If the XKi can ply up to around 700 smooth with PA310 then it should be pretty good. MMJ had PA310 in his early Karlflexz and think it played pretty smooth - he did think it would have been better with a woofer having rising response.
If the XKi can ply up to around 700 smooth with PA310 then it should be pretty good. MMJ had PA310 in his early Karlflexz and think it played pretty smooth - he did think it would have been better with a woofer having rising response.
If it doesn’t sound good in a K12, I don’t think an XKi will fix that. It might be that the heavy cone was designed to be a real woofer - not a PA mid bass that can get done nice higher reach.
X - do you think PA310 as XKi is worth consideration to run 2-way with a little XKi fullrange as a "FAST" ? - if so, which fullrange (hopefully inexpensive) might match up well sensitivity wise?
XKi w PA130-8 is about right as it is 90dB. There is 5-6dB falloff due to baffle step for the 96dB PA310. Two XKi boxes right? I would XO at 500Hz or so.
Plus it is only $18 for the PA130-8 and I can vouch that the PA130-8 XKi sounds fantastic.
Plus it is only $18 for the PA130-8 and I can vouch that the PA130-8 XKi sounds fantastic.
Yeah - a 12" XKI plus a little one. I need to revive my plywood PA130 XKi and put in some melamine sponges as it had coloration issues with a bare front chamber. What might a PA310 XKi look like? Would some of the Faital Pro fullrange mate well as XKi with a PA310 XKi low end?
@ xrk971 - if you get time , would you sometime examine what PA310 might do and what's a good compact XKi for it? Its lower sensitivity than the ~40-some gram Mms 12s might be good for matching FR in a "FAST" configuration. K12 was probably tuned too high for it to make good use of the driver plus PA310 simply sounded very much like in a cave vs Kappa12 which actually sounds quite good (when both woofers are mated to a K-tube)
I'm interested in high SPL, low cone excursion, and compactness moreso than trying to reach low.
Def_Driver "PA310" | Dayton 12 inch 96dB 450w Xmax 5.0mm
Sd=530.9cm2
Fs=39Hz
Mms=72.8g
Qms=8.85
Qes=0.30
Re=5.5ohm
BL=18.0Tm
Vas=91.74658L
I'm interested in high SPL, low cone excursion, and compactness moreso than trying to reach low.
Def_Driver "PA310" | Dayton 12 inch 96dB 450w Xmax 5.0mm
Sd=530.9cm2
Fs=39Hz
Mms=72.8g
Qms=8.85
Qes=0.30
Re=5.5ohm
BL=18.0Tm
Vas=91.74658L
- also, can hornresp fudge an XKi "about" as well as Akabak? If so, how might one specify the front chamber's aperture area vs Sd? What about the cavity peak in my crude sim below ? That peak is often a problem with smaller Karlson type and lower qts drivers (and with a "K10 size" occurred around 210Hz - IIRC)
about 1.5 cubic foot total and PA310, 2 pi
Here's PA310 in a similar size K - 115BK style - says cavity peak is somewhat higher up
(and system tuning a bit higher at ~63Hz - much like Karlson's "K12")
about 1.5 cubic foot total and PA310, 2 pi
Here's PA310 in a similar size K - 115BK style - says cavity peak is somewhat higher up
(and system tuning a bit higher at ~63Hz - much like Karlson's "K12")
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If one uses what MMJ terms "the Freddi mod" then response should be smoother. I do think Kappa12a and similar will play higher than PA310
Here's MMJ's hornresp model
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/att...ex-simple-build-series-tuned-6th-karlflex-txt
plus fudged sims for a 12 inch Karlflex with the smoothing stub loaded with Kappa12a vs PA310-8
Here's MMJ's hornresp model
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/att...ex-simple-build-series-tuned-6th-karlflex-txt
plus fudged sims for a 12 inch Karlflex with the smoothing stub loaded with Kappa12a vs PA310-8
Enter the "Stubby K"
it may not be this simple nor effective but adding a side-branch cavity should smooth some K-type. The K-fudge sims for the 115BK type and Stub-K are from MMJ. The regular Karlflex type, from TB46.
it may not be this simple nor effective but adding a side-branch cavity should smooth some K-type. The K-fudge sims for the 115BK type and Stub-K are from MMJ. The regular Karlflex type, from TB46.