I started to look at that driver but its specs don't make sense. Are there independent measurements of its parameters ?
Hello Freddi,
Yes, those T/S parameters on their website are not accurate. Below is what I was told are the measured parameters for this driver.
Sensitivity - 93dB, Re - 6.7 ohms, Fs - 84 Hz, Qts - 1.32, Qes - 1.7, Qms - 5.92, Le - 0.126mH, MMs - 6.58, Vas - 0.633ft3 (18 litres).
Please let me know if you think this would work in xKi. It would work in Karlsonator but the box is too big for the room. This seems more compact and hence I am looking at it. I know it is slightly bigger than W5-2143 but I think it will start with that.
Thanks
Balaji
Hi Balaji
Qts is pretty high - I think it would work better sealed so without a rear chamber vent. (you could try it both ways)
You could add some rear chamber stuffing and perhaps an "aperiodic" type vent and tune it by "ear".
I can't do a precise sim of this type - just ballpark as bandpass.
Lets hope XRK971 sees this and comments.
Qts is pretty high - I think it would work better sealed so without a rear chamber vent. (you could try it both ways)
You could add some rear chamber stuffing and perhaps an "aperiodic" type vent and tune it by "ear".
I can't do a precise sim of this type - just ballpark as bandpass.
Lets hope XRK971 sees this and comments.
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What Freddi did looks great. I wouldn’t normally bother with anything with Qts>0.45 for XKi. It would be too big.
Hi Balaji
Qts is pretty high - I think it would work better sealed so without a rear chamber vent. (you could try it both ways)
You could add some rear chamber stuffing and perhaps an "aperiodic" type vent and tune it by "ear".
I can't do a precise sim of this type - just ballpark as bandpass.
Lets hope XRK971 sees this and comments.
Thanks, I am unable to see the picture but based on xrk's comments, I will give it a pass. Thanks for your inputs, please see if you post that picture again.
Thanks xrk for your inputs.
Balaji
I did finally build my squashed XKi enclosures with PA130-8 drivers. They are foamcore covered with 6mm cork floor tiles. I changed my mind about where to place the screws for the front aperture, so try to ignore the inconsistent spacing. It bugs me but I have been told by my wife that I do not need to fix it ...
Very happy with the sound. They get the most use as TV speakers and they do a very good job.
Very happy with the sound. They get the most use as TV speakers and they do a very good job.
Attachments
Nice work Jeggles! My XKi's with W5-2143 get the most use as TV speakers many hours a day and in same location on almost the same shelf position. My wife also really likes them.
Hi Jeggles - those look terrific - I like that squat aspect and it reminded me of Karlson's 1955 Acoustic System (reflective) patent's "Fig.1" cabinet. It would be cool if you sometime upload a plan for your squat PA130 XKI
"Acoustic System"
https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/01/63/f4/5308c7c8ed789d/US2896736.pdf
Fig.1 "generally cubical"
"Acoustic System"
https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/01/63/f4/5308c7c8ed789d/US2896736.pdf
Fig.1 "generally cubical"
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@freddi
In another thread, planet10 suggested that you might have a copy of a Stromberg Carlson article on proto transmssion lines that complements Onley's. Is it something you can share here?
My interest is in transmission line theory before Bailey (rather than after).
Now that I arrived at this page, however, you have also revived my interest in Karlson enclosures. This was the first enclosure I considered building because it was featured in a magazine my dad bought when he was assembling his hi fi back in the late '50s-early '60s. He chose to do something else but he had bookmarked the article.
My building focus migrated to Bailey but that Karlson...
In another thread, planet10 suggested that you might have a copy of a Stromberg Carlson article on proto transmssion lines that complements Onley's. Is it something you can share here?
My interest is in transmission line theory before Bailey (rather than after).
Now that I arrived at this page, however, you have also revived my interest in Karlson enclosures. This was the first enclosure I considered building because it was featured in a magazine my dad bought when he was assembling his hi fi back in the late '50s-early '60s. He chose to do something else but he had bookmarked the article.
My building focus migrated to Bailey but that Karlson...
Thanks xrk971 and Freddi for the feedback, much appreciated. X, the similarity in our setups is uncanny.
I had to fit the speakers in the 11" cubed space in the shelving under the TV, hence the need to have a squat version. The external dimensions of the enclosure are 10.8" H x 7.8" W x 10.75" D, so they are getting close to being "generally cubical".
I will take my hand drawn plans to work, scan them and then do a little write up of the build when I get some time.
Cheers.
I had to fit the speakers in the 11" cubed space in the shelving under the TV, hence the need to have a squat version. The external dimensions of the enclosure are 10.8" H x 7.8" W x 10.75" D, so they are getting close to being "generally cubical".
I will take my hand drawn plans to work, scan them and then do a little write up of the build when I get some time.
Cheers.
hi - mhenschel - I don't have any S-C lore (do have a (pair of S-C 3 way short line cabinets with fiberglass fill, built mainly of "Celotex" panls with an outer layer of roofing paper)
I get stuck at Onney's patent and can't yet find prior art for that type.
There may be something pre-Onney
http://www.umberto-alessio.it/Radio Schematics/Stromberg Carlson/Stromberg Carlson 74 brochure.pdf
B. Onney "Sound Reproducing System" 2041777 Filed July 10, 1935
https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/f0/b6/35/cb7efd318a438f/US2041777.pdf
R.S. Anderson 2155838 "Sound Reproducing Systen" Filed April 13, 1938
https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/f9/1b/dc/d97ae7a3965f6a/US2166838.pdf
I get stuck at Onney's patent and can't yet find prior art for that type.
There may be something pre-Onney
http://www.umberto-alessio.it/Radio Schematics/Stromberg Carlson/Stromberg Carlson 74 brochure.pdf
B. Onney "Sound Reproducing System" 2041777 Filed July 10, 1935
https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/f0/b6/35/cb7efd318a438f/US2041777.pdf
R.S. Anderson 2155838 "Sound Reproducing Systen" Filed April 13, 1938
https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/f9/1b/dc/d97ae7a3965f6a/US2166838.pdf
@freddi
Thanks. I hadn't seen those.
Planet10 had this link;
http://www.t-linespeakers.org/download/Onley-acoustic-labyrinth.pdf
and seemed to be thinking of a different article.
Maybe it'll turn up. Thanks again.
Thanks. I hadn't seen those.
Planet10 had this link;
http://www.t-linespeakers.org/download/Onley-acoustic-labyrinth.pdf
and seemed to be thinking of a different article.
Maybe it'll turn up. Thanks again.
nice article - sorry I misspelled his name - some reference had it "Onney" rather than Olney.
perhaps looking through that magazine's featured articles will bring something
ELECTRONICS: Electronics Engineering magazine beginning in 1930
perhaps looking through that magazine's featured articles will bring something
ELECTRONICS: Electronics Engineering magazine beginning in 1930
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Here are my plans for the squat XKi. I had to zip the pdf file to get it below the forum attachment size limit.
I have also included a drawing showing some of the detail of how the foamcore portion of the front aperture fits inside the side walls and the cork section goes on the outside, forming a good seal.
There is another drawing showing where the melamine pads went in the front chamber and how the felt sheet was used to cover the lower melamine pad and generally hide the white foamcore.
Looking at the plans again again I think I added an extra 5mm to the depth of the front chamber my mistake. I can't say what effect this has had on the sound, I have no way to compare now,
Finally, the aperture vent starts about 50mm below the top of the enclosure and is 10mm wide at the top. I traced the curves from one of the Karlsonator plans.
This will give you a general idea. Bracing and so on is based on xrk971's many examples on these forums.
Happy to answer any questions you may have.
I have also included a drawing showing some of the detail of how the foamcore portion of the front aperture fits inside the side walls and the cork section goes on the outside, forming a good seal.
There is another drawing showing where the melamine pads went in the front chamber and how the felt sheet was used to cover the lower melamine pad and generally hide the white foamcore.
Looking at the plans again again I think I added an extra 5mm to the depth of the front chamber my mistake. I can't say what effect this has had on the sound, I have no way to compare now,
Finally, the aperture vent starts about 50mm below the top of the enclosure and is 10mm wide at the top. I traced the curves from one of the Karlsonator plans.
This will give you a general idea. Bracing and so on is based on xrk971's many examples on these forums.
Happy to answer any questions you may have.
cool - am I looking at it correctly (front surface of baffle?) with regards of vent height and distance from inside of the aperture to the baffle's apex?
Hi Freddi, yes those measurments are correct. 0.75" is the height of the vent in the original xrk971 design. 0.75" is really closer to 19mm but I rounded up to 20mm for convenience.
@baswamin
second thoughts on a "K" for that Lii Audio six inch fullrange
but based only IF their spec was real and not the high Qts indicated
in reality it might be best with open baffle.
second thoughts on a "K" for that Lii Audio six inch fullrange
but based only IF their spec was real and not the high Qts indicated
in reality it might be best with open baffle.
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Freddi,
Thank you for running simulation. But it looks like this driver is made for OB. In your simulations also, the bass extension is not like the original xKi right ? It starts dropping from 100Hz.
Actually, another DIYer here locally build Karlsonator with the same driver and it is fantastic. I will post demo video in Kalrsonator thread after asking permission from owner. Only issue is, it is little big for my room and I was looking at something little more compact.
Thanks
Balaji
Thank you for running simulation. But it looks like this driver is made for OB. In your simulations also, the bass extension is not like the original xKi right ? It starts dropping from 100Hz.
Actually, another DIYer here locally build Karlsonator with the same driver and it is fantastic. I will post demo video in Kalrsonator thread after asking permission from owner. Only issue is, it is little big for my room and I was looking at something little more compact.
Thanks
Balaji
@baswamin
second thoughts on a "K" for that Lii Audio six inch fullrange
but based only IF their spec was real and not the high Qts indicated
( -will be interesting to see that Karlsonator )
regarding a typical XKi would it be better to have the front chamber shape "B" than "A"?
I'd like to keep that cabinet at those dimensions but those don't include the vent which is ~ 4 liters - accounting for that, the cabinet would be about 1.5 inches taller.
A smoothing stub K should have a better balanced response - but don't know for sure. If the little cabinet below were used for bass guitar then any emphasis in the "hit" region could be a plus.
Also, a smoothing stub contributes to the front chamber volume so its addition can allow less lay-back angle of the baffle.
regarding a typical XKi would it be better to have the front chamber shape "B" than "A"?
I'd like to keep that cabinet at those dimensions but those don't include the vent which is ~ 4 liters - accounting for that, the cabinet would be about 1.5 inches taller.
A smoothing stub K should have a better balanced response - but don't know for sure. If the little cabinet below were used for bass guitar then any emphasis in the "hit" region could be a plus.
Also, a smoothing stub contributes to the front chamber volume so its addition can allow less lay-back angle of the baffle.