I see this thread drifting to Theoratical V.S. Empirical approaches debate.
It's fun, nonetheless.
It's fun, nonetheless.
here's a 6" speaker "I like" L Cao F6 - non-pro- sensitive, mms - 6.09g - should make a mid http://www.ebay.com/itm/match-pair-...range-speaker-PK-lowther-fostex-/321690854088
there is a dip around 1KHz but sound quality is imo "good" and highs are extended (on axis)
both of these K-couplers are ~ 1 foot wide internally
there is a dip around 1KHz but sound quality is imo "good" and highs are extended (on axis)
both of these K-couplers are ~ 1 foot wide internally
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Might work only with lowered-point low-pass xover test.
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I sure hear you all about the 400hz-7khz bandwith being too wide.
I'll sure proceed with some more (pre) testing -and with more pairs of ears as well- in order to see what would be the best compromise between Listenable and Reliable.
Like i said, i don't believe 4 octaves bandwith is really an issue if we use carefully selected music excerpts that peaks within the 2 middle octaves (and therefore the ''real mid portion'').
One thing you can be assured, though: i will NOT push a driver outside of his natural capabilities by boosting the low's and hi's using major EQ corrections. So the high-pass and low-pass xover points will be determined by the ''weakest'' driver(s) for a fair comparison.
And because even the very best are still quite bad. That is works at all is a tribute to our sensorial perception.
dave
But there is a set of assumptions that what we objectively measure is important. That is a subjective assumption because very little has been done to correlate what we measure to what we hear. For instance Geddes -- once a strong proponent -- of low measured distortion inloudspeakers would now have us toss that out as irrelevant. His take based on real scientific experiment.
dave
He tosses out way more than that alone, thereby loosening his own requirements for good measurements...
I'm not sure if many multi-way forum's members crossed the border to see the fullrangers forum... But you should lurk a bit: they look happy!
And since the only clouds above their happiness is about the first and last octaves, we must deduct the very root of that happiness is... the Midrange.
I believe the solution with the FR drivers is to use only a slice of it. So, NOT using it as a fullrange but as a wideband midrange.
Nobody here ever tried taking only the most tasting slice of a dessert ?
You should, it's really good. 😉
Most of the music is in the midrange 🙂
For a 3-way it has always been my belief that a good mid can be listened to all by itself and connect you with the emotion of the music.
The Scanspeak 10F is a good example, touted as a FR by many diyers, Scan calls it a mid --capable of maybe 130-140 Hz with a tail wind and decidedly lacking at the top but quite satisfying listening to music. Use it as a mid and you have the heart of a potentially really good loudspeaker.
dave
I agree with you Dave.
And the pre-tests i'm making tend to confirm that as well... I surprised myself listening music... with only a 3'' dome.
That is also why i believe this test is only possible with the midrange as i hardly see how it would be possible to conduct such test with sub/woofers or tweeters alone. Unless it's with a group of experienced speaker builders. And even that...
Ok after 14 pages of this thread, let's see the suggestions:
Scan-speak 10F
http://www.scan-speak.dk/datasheet/pdf/10f-8424g00.pdf
and 12MU
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Illuminator-5/12MU-8731T00.pdf
Tang-bang
(which model?)
Fostex FF85wk
Bower & Wilkins FST driver
Do i forget something ?
Is it unanimous (that they all worth a try) ?
Scan-speak 10F
http://www.scan-speak.dk/datasheet/pdf/10f-8424g00.pdf
and 12MU
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Illuminator-5/12MU-8731T00.pdf
Tang-bang
(which model?)
Fostex FF85wk
Bower & Wilkins FST driver
Do i forget something ?
Is it unanimous (that they all worth a try) ?
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Do note that i figure any of these EnABLed will get better, certainly the case with the FF85, i haven't yet treated my 10Fs.
dave
dave
What's happening when saying "Scan calls it a mid" sorry think it's your local dealer "Solen" in Canada that category it as midrange. Below is their pdf datasheet and their webshop.
Attachments
Looks like Scan is folowing the diy crowd. When i bought mine a couple years ago it was called a mid. Just checked. They still do.
dave
Attachments
Fyi: pre-selection already started (using 2 pairs of ears) 🙂
the first ''low-cost'' contender was from the new SATORI line (SB acoustics)
SB Acoustics :: 5'' SATORI MW13P-4
If we need a driver that act as a reference of difference, that's a good one.
Blind identification is easy compared to both the ATC dome and the FR Voxativ. There is less than 0.7 seconds hesitation... 😛
The appreciation part shows this driver is not in the same league. Even with much reduced mid bandwith xover, his sonic signature is both easy to recognize and not enjoyable.
This is clearly a case of ''I would not listen music with that driver alone''.
That make me think: SHOULD WE include such an average midrange in the test, as reference ? As a better way to compare ?
That driver or any other that is widely used and known to be ''just OK''...
the first ''low-cost'' contender was from the new SATORI line (SB acoustics)
SB Acoustics :: 5'' SATORI MW13P-4
If we need a driver that act as a reference of difference, that's a good one.
Blind identification is easy compared to both the ATC dome and the FR Voxativ. There is less than 0.7 seconds hesitation... 😛
The appreciation part shows this driver is not in the same league. Even with much reduced mid bandwith xover, his sonic signature is both easy to recognize and not enjoyable.
This is clearly a case of ''I would not listen music with that driver alone''.
That make me think: SHOULD WE include such an average midrange in the test, as reference ? As a better way to compare ?
That driver or any other that is widely used and known to be ''just OK''...
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Fibreglass TG09FD-08 and think its important be 8ohm not the 4 ohm version, same family suggest try a paper TC9FD-08.
There is beautifully listed measurements for both Vifa's and inspiration some Tang-Bangs at this link and actual i think author contribute this thread Timothy Feleppa's Pages.
No matter what category or folders i have seen them listed under at various web sites in the pdf datasheet word fullrange has always been printed.
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I guess you have not been looking at this driver for as long as i have. The pdf i have from before may, 2010 says wide-band.
dave