again we are stucked with the sensorial perception thing.
So let's all agree that 140 dB @ 1khz is painful (it is.)
Now, what would be the exposure time needed for the pain to build-up ? Is 8 milliseconds would be enough ? 200 ms ? Or more like few full seconds... ?
If the ear/brain has not the time to fully process the real effect of 140dB (or 110dB) peak, then why bother with it in our specific case ?
Listening to a live performance versus a typical 6.5" midbass low efficiency loudspeaker will answer your question. The brain does process peaks. This is what is called dynamic reproduction and this is why hi-efficiency is needed for accurate reproduction of dynamics.
Anyone that call nonlinearities of speakers irrelevant is either clueless or has an agenda.
Distortion (in the global sense) & non-linearities are very important, Geddes' scientific experiments are saying that what we are measuring doesn't tell us anything relevant in terms of what the ear/brain perceives.
dave
Listening to a live performance
Trying to achieve that with a hifi is a dead end… once it is recorded the game is lost.
dave
My preference, yes (both treated). FE108eS would make a good midrange thou. A bit soft on the top and needs a big box to do any bass.
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dave
Will sure give a try with the FF85 and the 10F as they are affordable.
i'll continue the pre-selection process in the upcoming weeks then will slowly start the ''real'' test somewhere in august and september.
If anybody pass by Montreal at this time and is willing to do the test, feel free to send a PM 🙂
What about the DACs? They (most) often have pre-ringing. At least they re headed in the right direction.
Current units will seem primitive in another 5 years.
dave
Dave, no system in the physical world can have instant tracking of a square wave/90 degree edge. Gibbs phenomena shows you "pre" and "post" ringing with any phase linear (true to input) system. With a high order filter you can chose to have phase distortion and a step that looks nicer on the scope. This will delay the harmonics compared to fundementals though.
Audio is better judged with the ears though than with the eyes.
With a 88.2kS/s system (done right) it does not matter much if you us linear or min phase. The in band response will be basically flawless technically and audibly.
Gibbs phenomena will not change much in the future, neither will the Shannon Nyquist theorem.
Trying to achieve that with a hifi is a dead end… once it is recorded the game is lost.
dave
Yes.
a microphone is flawed to begin with. (It's a transducer after all...)
Listening to a live performance versus a typical 6.5" midbass low efficiency loudspeaker will answer your question. The brain does process peaks. This is what is called dynamic reproduction and this is why hi-efficiency is needed for accurate reproduction of dynamics.
That may be why i changed my ATC's to 99db fullranges somewhere in my life. Without any regret.
That may be why i changed my ATC's to 99db fullranges somewhere in my life. Without any regret.
Good. Now, you are ready for line-array's 🙄
Good. Now, you are ready for line-array's 🙄
already got a bigger pair than yours. 😀
There is beautifully listed measurements for both Vifa's and inspiration some Tang-Bangs at this link and actual i think author contribute this thread Timothy Feleppa's Pages.
Thank you for the link.
According to the author and our test needs, i should try these:
Tang Band W3-1878 3"
Fountek FR88EX 3"
15M might be a good compromise (?) Nice curves... - Scan-Speak 15M/4624G - Page 2
even before the Illuminator series ?
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Illuminator-5/12MU-8731T00.pdf
Pre-selection list update:
Scan-speak 10F
http://www.scan-speak.dk/datasheet/pdf/10f-8424g00.pdf
and 12MU
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Illumin...MU-8731T00.pdf
Tang Band W3-1878 3"
Fountek FR88EX 3"
Fostex FF85wk
Bower & Wilkins FST driver
Do i forget something ?
I think each contenders should have at least 2 votes, does it make sense?
Scan-speak 10F
http://www.scan-speak.dk/datasheet/pdf/10f-8424g00.pdf
and 12MU
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Illumin...MU-8731T00.pdf
Tang Band W3-1878 3"
Fountek FR88EX 3"
Fostex FF85wk
Bower & Wilkins FST driver
Do i forget something ?
I think each contenders should have at least 2 votes, does it make sense?
I would add the PRV 5MR450-NDY
http://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/294-2705--prv-audio-5mr450-ndy-specifications.pdf
http://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/294-2705--prv-audio-5mr450-ndy-specifications.pdf
I would add the PRV 5MR450-NDY
http://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/294-2705--prv-audio-5mr450-ndy-specifications.pdf
among all small pro drivers ?
(first time i hear of that brand...)
Just updated the message no.1 on first page with the Pre-selection list.
Will make more update as new info/confirmation arrives.
Will make more update as new info/confirmation arrives.
i'm surprised nobody mentionned the Visaton B200...
http://www.visaton.com/pdfexport/de/servicestr.form?pid=/pdfexport/pdf/b200_6.html
http://www.visaton.com/pdfexport/de/servicestr.form?pid=/pdfexport/pdf/b200_6.html
I believe PRV uses former Selenium engineers - FR88ex is tough but even with 300W/channel, sound can't reach 1/2 way across my 28x18x8 room - little speakers don't work well for myself - a BG20 with whizzer removed might make a curve almost as good as B200 - don't know if the motor is "great" BG20 was a bargain at $24 but now is US$38
I'm with you on the wine analogy. But you're arguing with technologists, and there will be no end.I'm new on this website.
And it seems i brought wine to the campfire (and a tank filled with gaz, some might say..)!
That's kind of new, isnt it ?![]()
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