Although I do not see much utility in that, it is great that people use it. If only they could make 20" one.
Anyways the smallest one on the stronger motor has Qes of 0.09.
Eat that! 🤣
Yes, a truism and why on basically all vented alignments I used/recommend the pioneer's simple 'click' test or nowadays an even more accurate impulse test if doing measurements.
The point and sense was in showing that stronger of the woofer brings more efficiency, not in the arbitrary comparison. Your claims were contradicting, and so I corrected these.
Sure, we can do that now very fast. And we will see that all else being equal, stronger motor drivers are more efficient.
That is quite incorrect wording, to a point of raping language. There are underlying elements with peaky response shaping the frequency response accordingly, but the SPL does not show what you say. Careful with the words and careful with disagreeing on the meaning of it.
That would be at least discutable, but the definition of "peak" was not agreed upon really.
Why wouldn´t we? in a sense, if the driver could handle the displacement, It could be equalized as well. For particular SPL needs, which do not necessarily have to be the same as "fully exploiting the driver capabilities across the range", One can successfully equalize well above port tuning. The box still outputs gobs of SPL at less than tuning.
Doesn´t matter in face of SPL requirements. SPL requires power. The more efficient driver gets us there with less power. That was the point.
I have never presented this opinion to anyone.
It doesn´t require any equalisation. It is more efficient as is, and if we want to get 110dB of SPL at that point, the IPAL driver gets there with less power and heating. That was the goal. Setting different goal was misleading to the argument.
So here is the lower tune, from 34Hz (blue line) to 28Hz (red line), featuring the Seas 10" W26FX002:
In the right channel I still had the Seas A26RE4 (green line) at 34Hz tune, and I switched to W26FX002 at 28Hz (pink line):
And here is how it sounds like - on youtube:
To me it sounds less boomy and more smooth. But still too much bass. Will get better when I have a dedicated lower midrange channel, because the 10 inch drivers play much more bass than they do midrange.
Still, they almost have too much bass for everyday use. Commercials have surprisingly much bass!
Never had this problem with JBL 2225H, 2220H, K140 and 15PR400.
I can always plug the ports when needed.
Still, they almost have too much bass for everyday use. Commercials have surprisingly much bass!
Never had this problem with JBL 2225H, 2220H, K140 and 15PR400.
I can always plug the ports when needed.
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It is also matter of first reflections, front wall and ceiling reflection, perhaps sidewall reflection(s) fall usually somewhere low mids, consider trying different speaker positioning as well. I see often people associate floor bounce as bass problem but this is about shortest first reflection path giving interference much higher than any of the other reflections and not contributing much to low mids issues. Front wall reflection could be the longest path, lowest frequency null of any of the first reflections as it is roundtrip path length, distance from driver to wall * 4 and you have the first null wavelength. If speaker is 1 meter from front wall this is 4 meters or ~85Hz. Single reflection isn't that much of a problem as there are multiple in any room, but if all the first reflections create dips next to each other or overlaid then a dip forms, could be severe. As your bass speaker is close to floor path length through ceiling is again quite large, perhaps similar as with front wall. The opposite side sidewall also has quite a long path length usually, so could the back wall.
Hence I suspect you might just have the bass speaker too loud now because of interference on the low mids / high bass so just turn it down, experiment with speaker distance from boundaries to get the low mids /high bass come through, adjust again, zone in for good balance. Hope it helps 🙂
Hence I suspect you might just have the bass speaker too loud now because of interference on the low mids / high bass so just turn it down, experiment with speaker distance from boundaries to get the low mids /high bass come through, adjust again, zone in for good balance. Hope it helps 🙂
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Yeah, holly bass! 👍
Your room (and speaker position) is blessed (or coursed - depending on the view) with raising powerful bass, but what is important - the frequency response is rather smooth, without major resonances. Although measured difference is only decibel or two (or three...), ear is surprisingly sensitive to such small differences in speaker output, "seeing" through the room resonances.
Could you, please, change the frequency axis from linear to logarithmic one? Frequency axis usually is logarithmic.
Yes, I am planning on absorption panels around the speaker. The main culprit is the rear wall which is a concrete wall that I spent three weeks plastering perfectly flat, so I don’t want to drill anything on it.
Ok, logaritmic coming up soon.
This is without EQ and smoothing. A friend said the peaks are not so bad, and his room is much worse actually.
Does anybody have a better bass response? It would be interesting to see a good working example.
Ok, logaritmic coming up soon.
This is without EQ and smoothing. A friend said the peaks are not so bad, and his room is much worse actually.
Does anybody have a better bass response? It would be interesting to see a good working example.
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I wouldn't place absorption panels behind the speaker, they need to be very thick ("bass traps") to be able to do something with the bass.
I like what you get as a frequency response. Frequency response plot should be 1/6 octave smoothed, you don't need super-zoomed resolution.
I like what you get as a frequency response. Frequency response plot should be 1/6 octave smoothed, you don't need super-zoomed resolution.
With no smoothing I can zone in on the peaks and reduce them with EQ in minidsp. When recording both woofers at once, the peaks become even more amplified. Now they are at 43Hz and 72Hz.
Matter of addition/substraction/phasing.
Not an easy task to tune that in.
Slapped my 18DS115 into the "test bin" of 135l and 29Hz tuning, because I sold my 21" RCFs.
Cut out the ~65Hz room mode doing big boom, no further DSPing or EQ.
At PC monitor sitting position, it doesn't look like it doesn't have any bass (sorry for quality) due to low Qes, does it?
Not an easy task to tune that in.
Slapped my 18DS115 into the "test bin" of 135l and 29Hz tuning, because I sold my 21" RCFs.
Cut out the ~65Hz room mode doing big boom, no further DSPing or EQ.
At PC monitor sitting position, it doesn't look like it doesn't have any bass (sorry for quality) due to low Qes, does it?
As requested: The W26FX002 in Logarithmic scale and 1/6 smoothing:
Bright blue line: the A26RE4 with a 34Hz tune in the RIGHT CHANNEL
Dark blue line: the W26FX002 with a 28Hz tune in the RIGHT CHANNEL
Bright red line: the W26FX002 with a 28Hz tune in the LEFT CHANNEL
Dark red line: the W26FX002 with a 28Hz tune in the LEFT CHANNEL
The lower tune gave a noticably smoother bass, and less obnoxious bass on certain tracks. Still a bit too much bass.
When I plugged the port with foam I got a tighter and dry bass that was just right, but almost underwhelming after a few days with ringing ears.
These are new drivers with 0-10h burn. The stiffest of the bunch is the one with the most upper midrange.
The dip at 550Hz is a mystery. I moved out the speeakers from the wall but it did nothing.
I am using an old amp called Musical Fidelity E10, 40 watts that I bought because I don't think Firstwatt is very good at bass. Maybe GAN next? 😛
Bright blue line: the A26RE4 with a 34Hz tune in the RIGHT CHANNEL
Dark blue line: the W26FX002 with a 28Hz tune in the RIGHT CHANNEL
Bright red line: the W26FX002 with a 28Hz tune in the LEFT CHANNEL
Dark red line: the W26FX002 with a 28Hz tune in the LEFT CHANNEL
The lower tune gave a noticably smoother bass, and less obnoxious bass on certain tracks. Still a bit too much bass.
When I plugged the port with foam I got a tighter and dry bass that was just right, but almost underwhelming after a few days with ringing ears.
These are new drivers with 0-10h burn. The stiffest of the bunch is the one with the most upper midrange.
The dip at 550Hz is a mystery. I moved out the speeakers from the wall but it did nothing.
I am using an old amp called Musical Fidelity E10, 40 watts that I bought because I don't think Firstwatt is very good at bass. Maybe GAN next? 😛
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Dip at 550Hz probably is cancellation caused by the reflected wave from the floor. Put some really thick rug on the floor in front of the speakers - find the correct position by placing a mirror on the floor: where you can see the woofer (while you are sitting in the listening position) - that is the right place for the rug.
Room modes are at 43Hz and at 70-75Hz. Lower tuning at 28Hz definitely helps with the 43Hz resonance, and I suppose it is even better with plugging the ports. Unfortunately, maybe it will not help with the 70-75 Hz mode, because the closed box has almost the some output here as vented, but it is worth trying. Another measurements (closed vs vented) perhaps?
Room modes are at 43Hz and at 70-75Hz. Lower tuning at 28Hz definitely helps with the 43Hz resonance, and I suppose it is even better with plugging the ports. Unfortunately, maybe it will not help with the 70-75 Hz mode, because the closed box has almost the some output here as vented, but it is worth trying. Another measurements (closed vs vented) perhaps?
If woofer pass band is up to 200Hz a 500Hz dip doesn't matter too much, sufficiently outside. All of this is off topic though 🙂
Floor is always there unless you learn to fly, the dips are there when you speak to anyone or listen a bird sing or car go by 🙂
There is direct sound + six first reflections from the room boundaries, single boundary won't affect much, it is combination of all. You could measure further away or closer up and see if the dip stays or moves in frequency to determine if it is caused by the floor. All other reflection paths change as well so not so easy. Would rule out the response is indeed from the room and not something inherent in the speaker.
Here is rough approximation of your situation, trying to estimate if floor reflection contributing to the null is possibility. Here is example with 40cm driver height from floor, 90cm mic height, 2m microphone distance from source and the path length difference of direct and floor reflected sound is roughly 30cm, a dip ~500Hz. If measured from 3m distance the path length difference is less and dip is now higher up ~700Hz. You should measure the whole system response though, there might be no hint of 500Hz dip. If there is then worry about it.
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