Noticed that too but they are both no substitute for audio players in too many aspects IMHO. Maybe indeed something for the nostalgic/conservative grey brigade.
"Everything used to be better!"
"Everything used to be better!"
Just my opinion the Ultras analog out is ok but certainly not great . Compared to my Marcel Firdac with reclocker the Ultra sounds more messy , sound is forward but really lacks focus , no solid soundstage .
Aya 2 has more depth more organic midrange , I’m not sure how much improvements can be made to the ultras analog out . The biggest weakness for me is the Ultras soundstage compared to either of these other dacs .
I can’t see any XO’s in the Ultra
Just one master oscillator in core module and the audio clocks synthesised for DACs etc. that explains the low cost and obviously don’t expect great performance from the box. As I see it will be difficult to mod for clock improvements. All the more reason to think outside the box for better performance using external clocks and DACs … the Ultra just as a transport for which it is really great with all the features bundled
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Despite it being a good device with high price quality ratio it simply can not be the last word in engineering. Can't be as it is low budget class, one should adapt expectations to that I think. Apparently the numbers don't say all as the first designs to again add external stuff to make it sound better already started. The then no longer low budget device will have external stuff and external PSU so at least 2 external clunky boxes which makes a total of 3. An extra clunky box with clocks will make that 4 😀 A comparison with RPi comes to mind.
Maybe another device that can contain all of that internally is then a more efficient approach in terms of technical & sound quality, ergonomics, esthetics, cable spaghetti, less wall warts and possibly also lower cost 🙂 Just saying.
Not to be the grumpy guy but to see it the practical way I just placed 4 boxes on the floor versus just 1 audio player with large display, internal SSD, 2 clocks, balanced outputs so a relatively complete all in 1 and it really is no comparison. Sorry.
Maybe another device that can contain all of that internally is then a more efficient approach in terms of technical & sound quality, ergonomics, esthetics, cable spaghetti, less wall warts and possibly also lower cost 🙂 Just saying.
Not to be the grumpy guy but to see it the practical way I just placed 4 boxes on the floor versus just 1 audio player with large display, internal SSD, 2 clocks, balanced outputs so a relatively complete all in 1 and it really is no comparison. Sorry.
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This is only reason I brought it , I wanted a better streaming device than my MacBook for my external dacs . I’ve not seen any other easier cheaper option with usb output
My Rega dac R sounds better than the ultra:s internal dac but measures much worse.🙂
The SINAD is 30dB worse.
Ultra uses 4 opa1612 amps at the analog stage costing much more than a top-quality crystal .
The jitter from the ultra toslink output is very low if we look at the measurements - it can hardly be any better using a better clock , so what is the problem ?
I think many of us hifi enthusiasts wants good sound, and many of us believes that the best, most analog sound can be found using expensive gear that measures very well.
I think this is not true, heck, many of use like the sound from turntables and tubeamplifiers, measuring very bad but makes us smile with all the colorations thats nice to the ear.
No owen baked clock can make the jitter performance audible better than this (picture below).
I believe the sound from the analog outputs on the ultra suffer from other things - its to perfect and needs some colorations to be perceived as ”highend”. The very low output impedance from the inbuilt dac of only 11 ohms makes the ultra sound less ”flowing” than the average cd output of 500 ohms.
To get high end sound, perceived as sounding better , it can probably be done with an extra external buffer with some extra analog mojo after the analog stage using sparkos, line transformers, or a fet input opa1642.
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Based on its datasheet one would choose OPA1611/1612 for output stage. But then it leaves something to wish for. Strange but true. OPA1642 is often the other way around. If I would have an Ultra I would combine the 2. First opamp the OPA1611/1612 and second opamp the OPA1641/1642. Recently did that in an ESS DAC and liked it over OPA1612 exclusively.
That 11 Ohms is solved easily by adding stop resistors that apparently are lacking.
That 11 Ohms is solved easily by adding stop resistors that apparently are lacking.
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In an ideal world I'd use the Ultras line out, enjoy it and scrap the external dacs , unfortunately it's lacking to what I'm used to . I've tried SPDIF and USB out , the DACs input and output stage is modular so it's easy for me to try and compare things. One of the active output stages I have uses OPA1612's , another uses OPA1632, the other OPA2210 and also can use passive all these options sound a little different but not hugely .
I've been trying out the Ultras different filters for line out ,they all add flavour but for me the soundstage is still poor , this is one area it needs to improve
You guys got me curious with all this talk about the Ultra. I’ve wanted something besides a MacBook or iPad streaming iTunes/Apple Music lossless…with and without external DACs.
I have more than one system I do that with …the Dining Room, outdoor speakers for deck/pool etc…no centralized Sonos or anything like that.
I had an ancient Airport Express feeding the outdoor speakers this summer. It was fine considering the use…ambient/relaxation tunes.
I’d wanted something a little better for indoors…especially the Dining Room which we use a lot during meal prep and dining.
I picked an Ultra up over the holidays when they knocked $50 off the price.
Of course it doesn’t have Airplay…so that’s not an option.
I need to figure out what is the best way to use the Ultra as far as streaming music. I don’t have a large SSD with digitized music and only ever used Apple Music.
I think my son has a subscription to Spotify or the like. Any advice as how to proceed?
I have more than one system I do that with …the Dining Room, outdoor speakers for deck/pool etc…no centralized Sonos or anything like that.
I had an ancient Airport Express feeding the outdoor speakers this summer. It was fine considering the use…ambient/relaxation tunes.
I’d wanted something a little better for indoors…especially the Dining Room which we use a lot during meal prep and dining.
I picked an Ultra up over the holidays when they knocked $50 off the price.
Of course it doesn’t have Airplay…so that’s not an option.
I need to figure out what is the best way to use the Ultra as far as streaming music. I don’t have a large SSD with digitized music and only ever used Apple Music.
I think my son has a subscription to Spotify or the like. Any advice as how to proceed?
Perhaps add 100r in series just after rca connector plugs and see if there is improvement with this non-invasive mod …
External stuff as you call it has always had it's place in Audio. Most higher tier CD Players where used only as Transports.
Integated amps could only very rarely compete with separate Units.
Not to mention passive pre as volume control all kinds of power cleaners.
I take sonic performance over looks any day.
Id relly love a box that has it all and sounds like high dollar gear but that's unrealistic for the price we want to spend.
Most of us that are in the hobby for over 20 years have already good DACs laying around and also DDCs to bring up the performance a few notches.
Heck this is our hobby. If we wanted one box solutions we'd go to BestBuy, Media Market spend a Grand and play Bingo, feed the Ducks or whatever.
This looks to be a wi-fi module ? Seems strange to have the XO for dac on there ?
https://www.linkplay.com/modules-wifi
Not something new, this practice of generating clocks from a single master located elsewhere and then distributing... e.g some USB Audio/DAC products to keep costs low
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Wouldn't be a problem if the ESS dacs had the usual two clock multiples but they use a 100mhz clock to internaly generate the appropriate clock for the sample rate.
I had one ESS DAC that used the usual 22xxx and 24xxx clocks so there must be a register or pin configuration to select this option.
I had one ESS DAC that used the usual 22xxx and 24xxx clocks so there must be a register or pin configuration to select this option.
... and then there was a player with a liner power supply, the latest AKM chipset, all the INs and OUTs, and a really clever m2 drive support solution - all for a thousand US. Unbelievable. Looks are okay as well.
https://www.fiio.com/s15
https://www.fiio.com/s15
Promising! Monolith design just like in the glory days of HiFi and not a cluster of stuff you shouldn’t need.
I like the Ultra for its connectivity. I don’t think much of the analog output, it was a bit noisy so I connected a dac to the coax output. I use a micro sd card in the usb for my local music and this works well for me. The internet radio using the Open Network Stream is a really nice feature. I use Qobuz, the Ultras version is not as good as the Qobuz app on my phone but apart from missing a few minor features sounds good. The room correction is better than the NAD/BLUOS preamp room correction which made everything sound a bit dull. The Ultra is a really good value streamer, it is a shame the analog output is not better.
Looking at the internals and functions, just worth half the price if it were to take on WiiM …
and all these things about going back and forth linear vs smps just to impress advantages??