I personally would be worried about the software support, which could render the whole unit inoperable. I wouldn't dare spend 5k on a single streamer/server/DAC combo unit just from the point of long-term usability.
At least with an NUC and high-quality DAC I'm in full control. Restoring an image on a similar NUC and/or second hard drive takes me an hour. Plug that hard drive into a second NUC and - I have two capable servers/streamers. If Windows decides to play silly buggers with updates, I revert the image back to a previous version. Incremental image backups and restores have been working beautifully for me for the last couple of decades - they saved me and my family on numerous occasions. Every time I decide to do an OS update, I run an incremental image backup in case I need to revert back. Reverting back takes 10 minutes because the app only looks for differences.
Now, imagine a single unit where the proprietary software rollout package and/or firmware (OTA update, over which I wouldn't have any control) destroys the usability of the whole unit. Crazy stuff.
At least with an NUC and high-quality DAC I'm in full control. Restoring an image on a similar NUC and/or second hard drive takes me an hour. Plug that hard drive into a second NUC and - I have two capable servers/streamers. If Windows decides to play silly buggers with updates, I revert the image back to a previous version. Incremental image backups and restores have been working beautifully for me for the last couple of decades - they saved me and my family on numerous occasions. Every time I decide to do an OS update, I run an incremental image backup in case I need to revert back. Reverting back takes 10 minutes because the app only looks for differences.
Now, imagine a single unit where the proprietary software rollout package and/or firmware (OTA update, over which I wouldn't have any control) destroys the usability of the whole unit. Crazy stuff.
What kind of a NUC do you use?
I just buy used ( or Outlet ) MFF Dell Optiplex machines. A used i5 runs under 200, a new machine with an i7 runs around 700.
I just buy used ( or Outlet ) MFF Dell Optiplex machines. A used i5 runs under 200, a new machine with an i7 runs around 700.
The laptops require a proprietary SMPS brick to run; I struggled to use a linear power supply with all/any laptop I tried.
The LCD backlight needs inverters, this is another thing I didn't want to compromise on.
I use an i7-1185G7 running slim NUC11. More details here:
If you check my other posts in this thread, you'll find details on the OS I run and how I optimised it - you'll find that interesting based on your background.
There's also a comparison post in this thread of my NUC vs. dedicated Innuos digital audio server.
The LCD backlight needs inverters, this is another thing I didn't want to compromise on.
I use an i7-1185G7 running slim NUC11. More details here:
If you check my other posts in this thread, you'll find details on the OS I run and how I optimised it - you'll find that interesting based on your background.
There's also a comparison post in this thread of my NUC vs. dedicated Innuos digital audio server.
I have a Dell 7040 I was going to use for the streamer a few years ago, ended up never getting around to it, I like the SFF form factor. I need to get it listed while still worth at least a little. I also have a 7080 I bought to upgrade a bit to make into a desktop of decent performance but once I got to a certain point it ended up being a much better proposition to build a complete SFF in custom case which was fun fitting a 208mm AIO into🙂
I looked into the RPI for a streamer and possibly DAC but ended up with the Wiim Pro Plus which I sold and bought the Ultra for a bit more flexibility and might be able to use the little screen as it will be on my 24" deep desk right below my monitor. I did look into the NUC as well, do not recall why I did not go that way, perhaps the Wiim units are so good and cheap and easy🙂
Eventually I would like to build a unit that fits under my monitor that does all the Streaming work and perhaps the PC built into it as well, long, low profile, not too deep, isolated for any noise issues, etc but not hard to pull apart and make upgrades, repairs, etc.
My desk sits between the floor standing speakers I am building, only place to put it in the RV
Rick
I looked into the RPI for a streamer and possibly DAC but ended up with the Wiim Pro Plus which I sold and bought the Ultra for a bit more flexibility and might be able to use the little screen as it will be on my 24" deep desk right below my monitor. I did look into the NUC as well, do not recall why I did not go that way, perhaps the Wiim units are so good and cheap and easy🙂
Eventually I would like to build a unit that fits under my monitor that does all the Streaming work and perhaps the PC built into it as well, long, low profile, not too deep, isolated for any noise issues, etc but not hard to pull apart and make upgrades, repairs, etc.
My desk sits between the floor standing speakers I am building, only place to put it in the RV
Rick
I played with HP and Dell laptops for a while and remember clearly that they sounded better when they ran on battery. I could not detect that much of a difference between LCD on and LCD off (laptop closed), but the battery-powered laptops always sounded much better to me compared to SMPS-powered laptops.
I suppose it wouldn't be difficult at all to try powering up the Wiim Ultra with an external power supply... maybe with something like this:
I suppose it wouldn't be difficult at all to try powering up the Wiim Ultra with an external power supply... maybe with something like this:
DMP-A10 is not an all-in-one. If you read the article you will see what is meant. Like NAD M33 (I would never buy NAD stuff as I know what is inside).
Audio is a diminishing market anyway. Probably only 50+ people still believe separate devices are normal. By adding as much stuff as possible something may be gained but also something is lost. Thankfully other non audio devices are not constructed like this. Imagine your pc to have a separate PSU, separate soundcard, separate video card, external SSD…..according the same reasoning. The majority of customers do not accept that, that is why audio is a niche market.
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" Imagine your pc to have a separate PSU, separate soundcard, separate video card, external SSD.."
I've migrated to laptops (work) and MFF ( personal ). So, I use a USB-C hub. The PS is a brick, I have external SSDS, external USB Surround sound decoder, DVD drive, DP, HDMI, keyboard, mouse, Class D amps... etc...
I also use a 4 channel KVM...
I do have quite a few PCs/Raspberries/Chromebooks etc... so space in at a premium for us.
Gives me ton of flexibility and no more Big Boxes mostly full of empty space.
I've migrated to laptops (work) and MFF ( personal ). So, I use a USB-C hub. The PS is a brick, I have external SSDS, external USB Surround sound decoder, DVD drive, DP, HDMI, keyboard, mouse, Class D amps... etc...
I also use a 4 channel KVM...
I do have quite a few PCs/Raspberries/Chromebooks etc... so space in at a premium for us.
Gives me ton of flexibility and no more Big Boxes mostly full of empty space.
Actually, in some ways they have.
Check out https://nitschsound.com/ and see their connection with Schitt and why it exists.
Their Pietus Maxiums sounds really good with the optional Schiit DAC ( Mine has the Multibit DAC with Unison ).....
I got my daughter a Schiit Magni with DAC when the use connector for her Nuforce came loose.
BTW- I hate USB micro connectors... the worse connector invented.
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DIY has been a very cheap way for me to experience high end sound.
I just build what I need. With speakers I mod the crossover till it sounds great.
I just build what I need. With speakers I mod the crossover till it sounds great.
I'm curious about driving my Optiplex 7000 series machines directly off an UPS with DC power and battery. The PC takes a 19.5V input and the power supply bricks are 90w.I played with HP and Dell laptops for a while and remember clearly that they sounded better when they ran on battery. I could not detect that much of a difference between LCD on and LCD off (laptop closed), but the battery-powered laptops always sounded much better to me compared to SMPS-powered laptops.
I suppose it wouldn't be difficult at all to try powering up the Wiim Ultra with an external power supply... maybe with something like this:
Output ratings: Max: 4.62A @ 19.50VDC ( 90w indeed )
Input ratings: Max 1.5A @ 110VAC ( ~540w AC ). I assume the current will drop at the max input voltage of 220VAC.
I have the power supply plugged into a large UPS so it does both filtering and gives me a heads up when our local Guatemalan Power Company (*) does something weird on the AC lines. I was wondering about simply bypassing the power brick all together. I'm too lazy to look under my desk to see how big the UPS rating is.
I guess I need to figure out the efficiency of converting the power of the battery into whatever output voltage I need for output.
How big should the battery be if I want to run the thing at nominal usage for two hours?
(*) The local utility company in my State thinks that four power outages a year is exceptional service... I thought I lived in a First World Country... hmm...
@Extreme_Boky and others… are there links to these pc based adventures and let’s just focus mainly on WiiM uses here. Personally, I don’t find PC streaming any better than WiiM
The laptop chargers use smart tip comms to ensure only like-branded chargers and laptops can be used. Some interchangeability is possible, but only to run the laptop; battery charging will not be possible ("plugged in - not charging").
So, I gave up on laptops predominantly because of the above, but also due to the fact that laptop CPUs can not be undervolt - the Configurable TDP-down Frequency can not be set.
Ah, sorry. I'm not sure what the right battery size for that MFF would be. Anyway, with the high level of noise present around those machines, I'd deem them unsuitable for digital audio streaming. The trick is to use the CPU with the lowest possible power dissipation. This can be underclocked when using JRiver, for example, but it could also give 5Ghz multicore speeds when used with HQPlayerPro, generating high-quality DSD streams. NUCs are perfect.
Can also been done by FPGA hardware. Mark4 and others here found this diy pcm2dsd converter does just as well up to DSD256 at fraction of the cost of HQPlayer/PC
Agree, this non bit-perfect conversion to DSD sounds better than the original pcm
We've been discussing the features WiiM and miniature PCs have in common, and the pros and cons... I understand and respect your decision to stick with WiiM.
However, in my opinion, a properly chosen mini PC, powered by an external linear power supply and running a slightly optimised OS, will provide much better sound while providing many fun hours and allowing creativity when it comes to the DIY aspect, which is only possible with a miniature PC. You will also have a much more versatile digital audio stremer/server that can be used with a 100 dollar external DAC, or a high-end PCM/DSD capable DACs just by selecting an appropriate player.
I don't see anything wrong with promoting creativity in the pursuit of better sound through the utilisation of DIY skills.
But, you see the paradox here..?? That FPGA solution can be used only with a specific, pre-determined combination of oversampling DSD modulator and filter, at a given bitrate. Someone else decided that that particular combination sounds good... with their ears, in their system, with their DAC. The solution is hardware AND software locked, and can not be used for anything else.
Why not use a little NUC, then, and choose what you want it to do for you?