Once again not due to phase difference as it is normally understood. This is phase rotation that results in amplitude vs. phase modulation.
Both of these statements (above and below) are subjective, (the second from a vested interest), and as such carry no greater weight than that of the original. The problem with subjectivity can be that some regard theirs as more "objective" than other peoples.
WRT harmonic orders of distortion, it is my understanding that many here design amplifiers using harmonic order distortions as a guide, though I personally have not seen objective data, I'm happy to accept the actions of a number of established and valued creators in the field. Whether it is ever possible to deduce objective data from subjective results however many are taken, I don't know.
The research papers of Geddes show the science underpinning his statements.
http://www.gedlee.com/Papers/papers.aspx
Is it that scientific research, including measurements, is no more than subjective?
http://www.gedlee.com/Papers/papers.aspx
Is it that scientific research, including measurements, is no more than subjective?
No. Phase difference of only some spectral components always changes time-domain waveshape. Nothing special about that.
Hearing happens in the brain, not the ear. It is by nature subjective, because it is a construct. (Same with vision BTW.) This is physiology 101.
Our auditory perception is influenced by a great number of objective things. We can objectively measure our hearing for sensitivity and frequency response for example. We can calculate and measure the power bandwidth and SPL of a loudspeaker objectively in a reliable and repeatable manner. This affects the subjective experience for some people but not all. The actual perceived experience is always subjective, although it's sometimes predictable (like objectively louder speakers will sound subjectively louder).
Our auditory perception is influenced by a great number of objective things. We can objectively measure our hearing for sensitivity and frequency response for example. We can calculate and measure the power bandwidth and SPL of a loudspeaker objectively in a reliable and repeatable manner. This affects the subjective experience for some people but not all. The actual perceived experience is always subjective, although it's sometimes predictable (like objectively louder speakers will sound subjectively louder).
Not phase difference as normally understood as this is 90 degrees phase rotation in frequency domain.
Doesn't matter what the process is that shifts phase. It could just as well have been done by linear processing in the time domain (i.e linear wave shaping).
https://www.bspublications.net/downloads/05f43a1868cc18_Ch-1_Analog and Pulse Circuits_Lakshmaiah.pdf
https://www.bspublications.net/downloads/05f43a1868cc18_Ch-1_Analog and Pulse Circuits_Lakshmaiah.pdf
Who cares. Repeating that silly stuff ad nauseam has no real value to this discussion. It does not make your sighted subjective preferences more objective or measurements less objective.
On the other hand, they can be as crisp as an autumn leaf.
There's a short road I walk my little dog down most mornings, It end on a "T" intersection with stop sign. Walking back, with my back to the intersection, I heard a faint "machine noise". A bicycle passed along the intersecting street and its sound translated perfectly from far left, to directly behind me, to far right. No audio recording is going to precisely replicate what my ears naturally can (still) hear, out in the field. I'm pretty sure the spatial perception would have been rendered as well, if I had been facing the intersecting street.
Such experiences remind me it's probably not my ears ability to perceive spatial location, should something sound off in that regard. Since it works so good out there, it's tempting to put the stereo system into that environment, then see what falls when the room enclosure in introduced.
bohrok2610 said:
"Once again not due to phase difference as it is normally understood."
Please post a mathematical proof of this. Then we can all abnormally understand it.
"Once again not due to phase difference as it is normally understood."
Please post a mathematical proof of this. Then we can all abnormally understand it.
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Unknown without reviewing. Regarding "Audibility of Linear Distortion with Variations in Sound Pressure Level and Group Delay", unfortunately the protocol's trust in what at that time was a class leading IEM could be questioned as subjective. Distortion plot below courtesy of Archimago. http://archimago.blogspot.com/2022/03/measurements-etymotic-er-4b-classic-in.html
"The stimuli were presented via the Etymotic ER-4 MicroPro insert earphones."
It's reminiscent of a similar "trust oversight" rendering the results of a published Redbook vs 24-bit "shootout" essentially valueless IMO. From memory three independent kiosks were erected giving listeners the opportunity to compare music cuts in both formats in a completely relaxed and no pressure environment at their leisure. All sources were silver disc. Statistical analysis returned a null result. Unfortunately the experimenters apparently didn't check that all three players were technically capable of 24-bit performance, nor do I recall (perhaps unfairly) that the music selections were true 24-bit sourced beyond looking at the packaging. Test results elsewhere on one of the machines suggested it topped out a little over 17-bit. This was all prior to sites like ASR helping to clear up the mess.
Measurement instruments aren't a shield against bias when science practitioners divide into ideological camps. Which isn't intended to accuse Geddes, which I believe was a genuine oversight.
Attachments
Interesting to consider what happens in a 3 way design. The midrange is a bandpass, with both a high-pass and a low-pass slope. On the high-pass edge, phase leads. On the low-pass edge, phase lags.
While I'm pretty sure this problem has been long solved by crossovers designed to not do this, I'm pretty sure that was a subjective perception initially, solved by an objective application of mathematics and corresponding circuit design.
I would agree a lot of published science and or efforts measure are not the final word. Some of it is plain wrong. Science is supposed to be self-correcting over time, and not ever the final proof of anything. That and more, according to the philosophy of science: https://www.britannica.com/topic/philosophy-of-science
As an aside: one can concoct possible situations where the line between objective measurement and subjective opinion is blurred. Thus the need for attaching probabilities to bits of information whether they are deemed subjective or objective. Fuzzy thinking has its place, IMHO.
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Hi,
I liked your original way to link a member's post, but I would like to say that the member to whom your message is addressed may not notice your mention.
Please not forget that the forum has a feature to mention a member, writing the char @ followed with no space by the exact member's nickname.
Just as an example if I write @rayma then my mention will appear in your forum Alerts button and so you know I mentioned you, otherwise you might not notice it in the large amount of posts in this thread.
Please forgive me if I told you something that I'm sure you already know, but I'm curious to read any eventual reply to your kind request.
P. S.: Also noticed that some members copy the sentence they would like to quote by writing the poster's name near to it, this too will not be notified because it is not a real Quote and therefore could very easily escape to recipient.
Please post a mathematical proof of this. Then we can all abnormally understand it.
Of course, many systems are accidentally or naturally in inverted absolute polarity. The software can be in reverse polarity, too, which is fine if your systen is in inverted polarity. 😳 This wouldn’t be an issue if being in inverted polarity didn’t distort the sound so much.
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Software is pretty much the same ratio of inverted absolute phase vrs non-inverted absolute phase, with a bunch in between where absolute phase is just a mess. Actual mix likely depends on genre and collection habits.
If you worry about absolute phase you need a phase inversion switch on your remote control. And note which way on the “album cover” althou sometimes it varies song-to-song.
dave
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