Hi Pekka,pekka said:
Since you are talking with me like I am against Group Buys as such, or like I am making personal attacks, this answer is probably anyway waste of time, but I’ll tell this once more and now for the last time:
This is not against anyone, this is about some events that happens here lately. I’ve mentioned Per-Anders because he did very nasty thing of pushing the guy to sell the project promoted by third persons. Unfortunately he, while never has addressed this issue, used my suggestion to him to make such successful project and after that to let someone else to take the values derivable from that, but he, unfortunately, though not really unexpected, used the chance to start to talk about his own sales.
One further notice though:
P-A’s speech about what Carlos and I tell as about the speech of 2 guys opposed to the other 20000 really can’t be called anyhow but propaganda. Stalinism, whatever you call it, you can’t go wrong. In such systems it is often used “argument” when you want to marginalize someone who’s right.peranders said:
Pedja
roibm said:
Let's make some things clear:
1. I'm not selling anything. I do it for me, I love music and I like to listen to it with the best quality. My permanent search to improve what I have makes me try many things, and when I find something worth of mentioning, I report it.
2. Since I started using LM chips I tested many different implementations, several tricks, and that you can see all over this forum. Of course I have much better results now than when I started using them.
If someone thinks they can hit the spot at first try, whoever it is, I will consider him a wise guy or just someone selling a PCB. Without testing PSUs, buffers, several implementations, layouts, without EXPERIENCE with THESE PARTICULAR CHIPS, one can never have an idea if he's done a good job, or if with a simple change it would SOUND much better.
3. I've heard MANY expensive and/or very good things and I know what's a good sound. I can't admit that someone that doesn't know me makes insinuations. I can listen to almost what I want at a distance of a phone call. And with the company from people that knows very whell how to listen.
4. I don't make the best amps in the world (nonsense!), but I know what I hear and what I hear is very good. Saying that LM chips are not amps for men is ridiculous, childish, ignorance.
Rest assured that my "standard" is not a Nad or a Rotel amp.
5. I've posted my complete amp schematics (including two options of PSU - one of them is based on Pedja's LM338 regulated PSU that some criticize with ignorance) in several threads, you can find it. But I will not post it here, on this thread.
carlosfm said:
Carlos, let me thank you for clearing those points.
At the same time I am dissapointed you did not answer briefly with a list of the biggest improvements(like regulated psu, big capacitance, this or that kind of buffer etc.)
I know you posted about all of this here, but there's no one place that lists them all.
I also don't understand why you're acting like a paranoid telling us you don't sell nothing and the like. People who sell stuff may still tell the truth. I could be just as paranoid and ask whether you are who you say you are. Maybe there is a conspiracy and you work hand in hand with digi(regulated PSU, right?) or with someone else. Can you prove me you are who you claim to be?
I don't think this paranoid behavior is helpful at all. Sorry.
roibm said:
Do you want me to help you improve Per-Anders' GC?😱
😀 😀 😀 😀 😀
roibm said:
Oh maaaaaaaannnnn...
You ask me this:
roibm said:
And I answered this:
carlosfm said:
Because of your question, I felt the need to clarify this, for the 20,000 members audience we have.
Am I paranoid?
Am I who I am?
Yes, I am the one on the picture and my name is on my footer, the same doesn't happen with you.
And no, I don't work "hand in hand" with any other member.
If or when I do, it will be public, I don't play that game.
Sorry Carlos, but this time it's my turn to say "you don't understand what this is all about", meaning, you didn't get right my question 🙁
Whatever, I tried to have a nice discussion...
Whatever, I tried to have a nice discussion...
roibm said:
Think about it: do you think this is the right thread to talk about that?
I'm no so bad as you think.🙄
This is not the right place to discuss other things discussed. No need to bring any excused when you don't want to talk about a subject. In the end I'll start looking for your posts/threads altho it will be harder, but still better then nothing, right?
It's your right to discuss only what you want to, so it's ok with me.
It's your right to discuss only what you want to, so it's ok with me.
roibm said:
Hey, hey, hey...
Calm down.
Here's a direct answer, because you didn't understan me:
I think it's not polite to talk about my amps on this thread.
You have mail.😉
carlosfm said:
I'm as cool/calm as it gets. I was just making my point 😉
Thanks for the email... you may have gotten a reply...
Carlos,
I think roibm is making a point that if you start to see conspiricies everywhere, then you could also be a victim of that kind of thinking. In other words, next week someone might accuse you of being an evil conspiritor. I don't think he is saying you are a conspiritor, but trying to make the point that this attitude of paranoia is harmful to the forums. More or less harmful that commercialism? - I don't know.
I also know people are interested in your designs, and that you have made this type of design of more interest on the forums because you say it is very fine. I believe you, but many people on the forums want to try the design, not because you say its fine, but because they want to judge for themselves and also report their opinions here. (of course that's only their opinion) Thats what a reasonable number of boards can help with.
I know you know this 😉
I personally agree that in addition to a circuit, the information that you give about component values and locations, is very important, and should be acknowleged by people that are making amps using your information. One problem with circuit boards is that we never know if they are making your exact design or only something with similar component values, etc.
I think roibm is making a point that if you start to see conspiricies everywhere, then you could also be a victim of that kind of thinking. In other words, next week someone might accuse you of being an evil conspiritor. I don't think he is saying you are a conspiritor, but trying to make the point that this attitude of paranoia is harmful to the forums. More or less harmful that commercialism? - I don't know.
I also know people are interested in your designs, and that you have made this type of design of more interest on the forums because you say it is very fine. I believe you, but many people on the forums want to try the design, not because you say its fine, but because they want to judge for themselves and also report their opinions here. (of course that's only their opinion) Thats what a reasonable number of boards can help with.
I know you know this 😉
I personally agree that in addition to a circuit, the information that you give about component values and locations, is very important, and should be acknowleged by people that are making amps using your information. One problem with circuit boards is that we never know if they are making your exact design or only something with similar component values, etc.
Variac said:
I understand that some people may think that way, but I am just making my point, because who is a member of this forum for at least a year knows what I'm talking about.
Every thread I opened discussing something that I thought was an improvement I had people jumping on me saying otherwise, without having tried and listened.
Curiously, those were exactly members that had something for sell and they maby felt they had something to loose.
Now we have much more members in that position, and while those members post on other's threads just to criticize without a sense and making publicity for their desings, I don't do that.
Otherwise I would post here my schematics and give advices on this thread.
I identify myself with this cause, nothing less than that.
Variac said:
Thanks.
Variac said:
My schematics have precise values.
PCB Layout?
If you read the first part of this post, and also Pedja's real question here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=46169
You will understand why.😉
Hey!
What happened to Pedja's thread?
His question was deleted!
Or moved?
This is getting serious...😡
REMARKS to this threat - a try
Beranek's Law
It has been remarked that if one selects his own components, builds his own enclosure, and is convinced he has made a wise choice of design, then his own loudspeaker sounds better to him than does anyone else's loudspeaker. In this case, the frequency response of the loudspeaker seems to play only a minor part in forming a person's opinion.
L.L. Beranek, Acoustics (McGraw-Hill, New York, 1954), p.208
Mandat's rule*
More money you spend, better sound you hear.
Troy's saying**
I build loudspeakers - marvellous sound,
He builds loudspeakers - bad sound,
He builds and sells loudspeakers - woesome sound.
* - 😉
** - a translation of a saying from audiostereo.pl (Polish audio forum)
Beranek's Law
It has been remarked that if one selects his own components, builds his own enclosure, and is convinced he has made a wise choice of design, then his own loudspeaker sounds better to him than does anyone else's loudspeaker. In this case, the frequency response of the loudspeaker seems to play only a minor part in forming a person's opinion.
L.L. Beranek, Acoustics (McGraw-Hill, New York, 1954), p.208
Mandat's rule*
More money you spend, better sound you hear.
Troy's saying**
I build loudspeakers - marvellous sound,
He builds loudspeakers - bad sound,
He builds and sells loudspeakers - woesome sound.
* - 😉
** - a translation of a saying from audiostereo.pl (Polish audio forum)
My design process was like this:carlosfm said:
1 Read the datasheet very carefully.
2 Read AN-1192 app note very carefully.
3 Pick up all things that make people to fail in some way or another.
4 Put up the specifications in order to get a fail proof design.
5 Choose parts which seems to be appropiate.
6 Make CAD parts if necessary.
7 Draw the schematic.
8 Review the schematic carefully.
9 Make the pcb layout.
10 Reveiw the layout carefully.
11 Order prototype boards.
12 Build.
13 Worked to 100%, boom, just like that.
14 I became satisfied.
15 I stopped there, no further tweaks.
In this case (and most of my designs) I have had an idea and it has worked from the beginning.
The QRO amp needed much more development and I had also more troubles and problems to solve but this had also to do with my age.
Ok, this is my way of DIY'ing and it suits me, my budget and my patience.
To get a LM3886 working is pretty easy, no rocket science exactly.
Let me also say (again) that this Gainclone was a test and it will be tested and the results may come hopefully.
I completely agree with peranders - this method make difference between professional and " gluer " 😀 .
peranders said:
Of course it is.
But I'm not the one who is going to tell you how to make a very good amp with that chip.
Your way of thinking is: it works, fine.
That's why some, including very "professional"
designers (read below) say that these chips are "not for men", they can't make a good sounding amp out of it.Upupa Epops said:
Oh, here he is!
You two guys always walk hand in hand.😎
Curiously, both sell PCBs.
Nothing against that, just your attitudes.
Pavel has his point of view about these LM3875/86 chips. My point of view is that they are excellent in their class and the do an excellent job if you have in mind, price, size, reliability. I think they are excellent for newbeginners and also for those who easily want a good 50-100 watt amp.... but I think it's more fun with a descrete amp, like for instance Sonny's A1 or my QRV-06.
Pavel may have whatever point he wants to, it's his right to have.
But I know I won't listen to someone that biased against chip amps, especially when his experience is pretty minimal. And he might just go for his 50,- Eur LM4780 PCB, I won't buy it anyway. Not from this kind of person.
I had a different opinion about him, but not anymore, unless he starts trying before he speaks.
But I know I won't listen to someone that biased against chip amps, especially when his experience is pretty minimal. And he might just go for his 50,- Eur LM4780 PCB, I won't buy it anyway. Not from this kind of person.
I had a different opinion about him, but not anymore, unless he starts trying before he speaks.
Pavel, I don't like your remark totally. I think you are looking down on those "gluers" despite your smilie.Upupa Epops said:
My way of DIY'ing suits me and for those kind of projects and I have no intention to sell this type of idea and say this is they right way.
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