roibm said:
I appreciate, but why bother?
I'm not criticizing the design, you seam to be missing the point of the discussion.
Once you go naming it's not called anymore "generalizing".carlosfm said:
And when it's not generalized anymore, you point out particularities. And when you consider the subject of the thread you are right on target.
I'd like to know your opinion: can someone here do business and still not be biased?
roibm said:
There are several ways of posting.
I named Guido Tent as a good example, I like his approach.
But unfortunately you have a point.
carlosfm said:
don't think so..... neither the first nor the second.Putting things in perspective, 2004, how many group buys have taken place? Have many different pcb's have been offered? How many new designs have been presented? I haven't counted but I'll say they are less then 376 different designs...... How many are they really? I haven't counted.
peranders said:
The fronteer between a group buy and someone selling something is too thin and it seams that some members like to mix these two different things, maby with a purpose.
As you may have noticed most pcb's designs are one man jobs, probably for a reason. Only the META amps and the successors are 3 people efforts.
When you are too many you have also too many desires. We have a Gainclone project in Sweden and it may probably never leave the idea stage (but I'll hope it does) and the reason is the lack of specifications and a real dedicated person or project manager which have the time to spare.
Carlos you have written very much about your high-end pre amp, why don't you convert these ideas to a flashy high-end pcb and offer it to everyone who might be interested? Then you might be experienced in the group deal problems and opportunities. I'm sure that you can create interest around your project. At the moment I haven't got a clear picture of it.
When you are too many you have also too many desires. We have a Gainclone project in Sweden and it may probably never leave the idea stage (but I'll hope it does) and the reason is the lack of specifications and a real dedicated person or project manager which have the time to spare.
Carlos you have written very much about your high-end pre amp, why don't you convert these ideas to a flashy high-end pcb and offer it to everyone who might be interested? Then you might be experienced in the group deal problems and opportunities. I'm sure that you can create interest around your project. At the moment I haven't got a clear picture of it.
I am sorry, there is one thing I forgot.Pedja said:Now, I’ll withdraw from this thread.
Pedja said:
P-A, since you obviously can't contribute reporting differences between “normal” and SMD buffered GCs, but you nevertheless moved the thread to the Chip Amps Forum, it would be good if you'll bring it back to the Everything Else, or maybe Audio Vendor's Bazaar Forum.Pedja said:
Pedja
I am not the one which collect amps. I haven't built 5-10 different GC's but I'm sure that you eventually will get reports, but not from me I'm afraid.Pedja said:
My contribution is not to give you a complete picture of the Gainclone concept. You have to do something by yourself.
OK, OK, just move the thread back among “anything and everything else” ones or among the commercial ones where it ultimately belongs. It is useless here.
Why are Carlos and Pedja jumping on P-A? Come on guys, he is merely offering something interesting. I paid $25 for two boards to be shipped from Sweden to me. Did P-A make some cash on this? Maybe, but I doubt with less than 100 orders he made more than $200. And frankly, I don't care. If I wanted to make a SMD gainclone, I'd need to build my own pcbs. Buying just two PCBs would cost me more than the $25 I paid P-A. Thus, by organizing a group sale he's helping out a bunch of people. I feel like he's moving stuff in a new direction and that's good for everyone.
What do you even have to be upset about? Of course he's gonna try to generate interest in his boards. If you have a group sale with only 5 boards its pretty worthless for everyone involved.
I understand that both of you have come up with some great ideas and some new concepts for chipamps. I also understand that you didn't release group buys for them. But I don't think P-A's project is even possible without PCBs. To me this isn't a commercial venture. If the boards were $40 apiece and he refused to disclose the design that would be different. but if you think what he is doing is wrong than don't buy it. If everyone gets attacked this bad for releasing a PCB I coulld imagine that no one would want to. Both you guys are taking away from this community buy attacking someone for selling boards.
-JTC
What do you even have to be upset about? Of course he's gonna try to generate interest in his boards. If you have a group sale with only 5 boards its pretty worthless for everyone involved.
I understand that both of you have come up with some great ideas and some new concepts for chipamps. I also understand that you didn't release group buys for them. But I don't think P-A's project is even possible without PCBs. To me this isn't a commercial venture. If the boards were $40 apiece and he refused to disclose the design that would be different. but if you think what he is doing is wrong than don't buy it. If everyone gets attacked this bad for releasing a PCB I coulld imagine that no one would want to. Both you guys are taking away from this community buy attacking someone for selling boards.
-JTC
Ahh, don’t drag me back into thread… I am not jumping on anyone (etc etc), it is not me who started this thread, I just wanted to hear the constructor what is the benefit of his concept and he couldn’t ultimately tell anything about it. As about Per-Anders, I haven’t had intention to deal with his board (doesn't strike me at all), but with the fact he has pushed the guy to sell the project based on the ideas promoted by others. However, he has started the thread to talk about his reasons to make the board. What can I do about that but to ask him not to abuse my idea of moving the thread to the Chip Amp Forum. I am now – read my lips: out of this thread!
Looking for the thread brought back into the appropriate areas,
Best regards,
Pedja
Looking for the thread brought back into the appropriate areas,
Best regards,
Pedja
Jimmy_The_Clown said:
I can only talk for myself.
P-A has a position that for me is almost anarchy.
Someone posts a schematic, someone alse makes a PCB fast and sells it, without any permission from the person who posted it.
Have in mind that I have no interests in selling anything here.
It's just the attitude that doesn't seam right, and this is more serious coming from a member that is also a moderator.
Digi knew the conditions, Pedja posted them.
But he is already on the 3rd round.
If there are conditions, we have to respect them.
That is not a group buy anymore.
I didn't attack P-A's design, I just did not like his way of seeing things.
I'm glad you are happy with his PCBs.
This group buy was a test of the SMD approach. I asked the members here if you would be interested in trying something different which is for most of you virtually impossible without my help (or anyone else in my position). The answer was yes. You all have got your pcb's (or soon). Some of you will build, some of you will never build for different reasons. (I'll really hope though that EVERYONE finish their amps.)
When you have built, you will know if the amp was OK, good, Spitzenklasse, or whatever, or even rubbish and a poor design.
When you have a working amp you will also know if this was fun, educating, easy. It will be fun. It will be educating but maybe not easy.
If this will be the best GC in the world, it remains to be seen/heard but it's certainly different.
When you have built, you will know if the amp was OK, good, Spitzenklasse, or whatever, or even rubbish and a poor design.
When you have a working amp you will also know if this was fun, educating, easy. It will be fun. It will be educating but maybe not easy.
If this will be the best GC in the world, it remains to be seen/heard but it's certainly different.
I claim that small parts may be good.Pedja said:
Many parts becomes "faster" and behave good higher up in frequency. Good for stability and for intererence of RFI. This will maybe has interactions with a less influenced sound reproduction
I claim that compact solutions are good. Less pick up of external fields and keep stray caps and stray inductance's down. "purer" behavoir of the design.
Easier to manufacture with pick-and-place machines.
I will give no proofs of my claims. That is something for you to explore.
What do you think, why do the forums die? Because people instead to share the experience and knowledge, share the guesses, constructions, general suppositions, useless messages and so on.
P-A, after Pedja asking several times for you (yes, you are a moderator) to return this thread to where it belongs, it is still on the Chip Amp forum.
This is starting to seam like propaganda.😀
This is starting to seam like propaganda.😀
I bet he is on the point “it doesn’t matter that much what, it is important that they talk about it”.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.