For anyone interested in a light hearted look at how English and american dialects have diverged I can recommend Bill Bryson's 'made in America'. Fascinating stuff. Won't spoil it for those who fancy getting off the internet and reading for a bit.
Oh, the doors are so wide open but so firmly shut... am so very tempted to transgress 🙄
I should learn Danish language, it would provide extra 'gravitas' when I let people know what I think of them 'faux' Britishers!
😀😀😀
to be fair he didn't have a whole books worth with the main premise and did meander towards the end. But still a worthwhile lighthearted dip into language.
This is a bad news because i believe in the importance of standards.
If a language has to be used as a mean for communications there must be a reference version possibly the most universally followed.
In order to avoid misunderstanding.
I think Queens English has a wonderful clarity. Not a small thing.
If effective communication is the goal of course i would be happy to accept it.
Thanks for the interesting information.
Regards, gino
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Hi and sorry but i am confused. Where did they learn it ?
I guess mostly at home. I have come to the conclusion that the only way to learn effectively a language is to live with native speakers.
Because this is what usually happens with much more difficult languages than english.
For instance here the people able to speak a decent Norwegian are all married to a Norwegian, with no exception.
I would say that men usually speak better than women.
Mybe because women tend to teach more and learn less ? 🙄
Regards, gino
P.S. if i understand well Denmark is one of the country where English is penetrated more and better.
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While standards are important in language, they should also be provisional and revisable. Language should be regarded as part of a living system, expressing the conditions and circumstances of peoples, places and periods and evolving as those conditions alter and change. To try to settle the rules and standards of a language once and for all is to fail to understand what language is and how it functions.
As to so-called 'proper' pronunciation, 'proper' is a relative (or relationist) notion. There is no such thing as a universal standard of proper pronunciation, just localized historical traditions and practices. History is replete with examples of people trying to impose standards of pronunciation (and worse) on others with typically horrific results (the Irish in Great Britain, Aboriginal peoples in Canada, and so on). I remember rising the bus once as a graduate student and listening to a group of young people in the back making fun of other people's accents and claiming that they themselves had no accent. This sort of pretentiousness is not only myopic and uncritical, it can also be dangerous when used as a way of ranking and privileging one group of people over another.
Apologies for the rant.
As to so-called 'proper' pronunciation, 'proper' is a relative (or relationist) notion. There is no such thing as a universal standard of proper pronunciation, just localized historical traditions and practices. History is replete with examples of people trying to impose standards of pronunciation (and worse) on others with typically horrific results (the Irish in Great Britain, Aboriginal peoples in Canada, and so on). I remember rising the bus once as a graduate student and listening to a group of young people in the back making fun of other people's accents and claiming that they themselves had no accent. This sort of pretentiousness is not only myopic and uncritical, it can also be dangerous when used as a way of ranking and privileging one group of people over another.
Apologies for the rant.
Why we read and write in this forum with English? It is just a tool for us to communicate. It is the information we share and receive that we interested in.
When I was young, I thought I could only speak in Chinese but eventually I had to use English for my daily life.
When I was young, I thought I could only speak in Chinese but eventually I had to use English for my daily life.
Hi and no doubts about that. It is what normally happens with standards.
One good way to start would be to declare the English version of all standards the reference one.
Like for instance in the airports worldwide ... no one even thinks to discuss the messages in English i guess.
often i have meetings with persons coming from all over around the world.
We need a common language. We cannot afford a translation system.
If we want to communicate.
I was at a tech meeting discussing a European standard for domestic appliances. The group spent most of the time to correct the german and english translations (the french version being the reference)
As a protest, being italian and completely out of the discussion, i spent most of the time at the buffet, a nice one by the way 😱
let's be honest. The civilization with the technological progress has improved the average standard of living enormously. So in end i think it has been positive. And i think that many Natives agree also.
Like the story of oil.
Someone in the Arab countries may say that western countries have plundered their natural resources.
They did not even know that oil was there and even if they had known they would have had absolutely no chance to extract it.
I read that before the discovery of oil Saudi Arabia was living on the tickets paid by pilgrims visiting La Mecca. A little difference with the modern situation i think. They should be thankful also.
Of course life is a do ut des ... give and take.
Smartest Arabs know this and they behave accordingly, getting the most possible out of it.
I can tell you that the same happens here with some very funny dialects.
I think that in the past years in Italy the teachers were extremely tough in punishing (even with physical punishment) students using their own dialect and so also the accent. Very severe.
My mother used to tell me that. They had a kind of stick that they used as a whip with dialectical students.
To promote the use of the nationally accepted language. And it worked quite well.
A bad score just in Italian meant the repetition of the whole year, even if the other scores were sufficient.
Today things have changed.
A bad score in Italian can even open the doors of the Parliament ... better, a good Italian is not required to sit in the Parliament.
any rants in well received English are very welcome are least by me 😱
Thanks a lot for that.
Kind regards, gino 🙂
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At least in Independence Day there were token invasions of many of the major world cities even if featured only for moments.
Bad things in Dr. Who episodes generally happen in London, although there have been some episodes in the U.S. as well in more recent series. 😉
On a more serious note Hollywood is now noticing the Chinese film market and I expect there will be more China featured in upcoming U.S. movies. (2012 might have started that trend?)
Yes, so true. A tool. An adaptable one, it can be used like a chainsaw or a scalpel*. The lumberjack and the surgeon both have their place.
But I see no way around the 'sacred cultural resource' tag. That has its place also. One can be respectful without being shackled and subservient, to the point of stagnation.
* This thread is obviously somewhere in between.
My sister does not like English people especially girls because she says that they are rude
She used to go often to Manchester for her job
For instance, she says, when she asks to please repeat slower they tend to repeat at the same exact speed. And she gets very very angry for this attitude.
I thought a little about this and i think i have found the reason.
When my sister gets angry she is very very funny ... i cannot stop laugh at her.
So i guess the English people ...
She used to go often to Manchester for her job
For instance, she says, when she asks to please repeat slower they tend to repeat at the same exact speed. And she gets very very angry for this attitude.
I thought a little about this and i think i have found the reason.
When my sister gets angry she is very very funny ... i cannot stop laugh at her.
So i guess the English people ...
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Giving the benefit of the doubt, it may be less about attitude and more about habit. Each side, though, should contribute some polite accommodation. Sometimes that is easier said than done. It is a situation that can easily lead to frustration and self-consciousness.
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