Here is perspective from a female audiophile colleague of mine. I am posting this at her request as she is not a member of diyaudio currently:
"I have read through post #34 in the "Why are there so few women audiophiles," and I am quite disappointed in the tone of most of the responses and what I read as a lack of respect for women's appreciation of good sound. Fortunately, in my experience most of the male audiophiles I know do not follow that line of thinking. I believe bullshruv in post #3 has the right idea -- "depends on your definition of audiophile..." I consider myself a music enthusiast. I'm also probably an audiophile, . . . depending on your definition. If audiophile means wanting to have a high quality listening experience in one's home, then I'm an audiophile. If it means obsessing over gear and/or DYI, then I'm not an audiophile. For me, the gear is a means to an end and the end being a home listening experience as close to live as my budget will allow, recognizing that it will never truly sound "live." I am interested in how gear sounds, not how or why it works.
For me, it has always been about the music. I have liked rock n roll from the time I was about 9 and heard Buddy Holly and some doo wop groups like the Del Vikings (Come Go with Me) in the late 50s at an older girl friend's house. I used to listen to top 40 AM radio and was a regular playing “name it and claim it.” That started my 45 collection. Through high school and college I had a one piece Magnavox stereo with detachable speakers to play my 45s and a few albums I started buying in the early 60s. I played records all the time, even when I was studying, as I went to sleep at night—pretty much whenever I was awake. I went to lots of concerts and clubs in college to hear live music. I didn’t know there was a “high end” to audio until I moved to KC MO in the mid 70s after law school and we went over to a friend’s house one night who had Martin Logan speakers, a Nakamichi tape deck, Girard TT, Marantz amp or receiver and I heard my favorite music in a way I had never heard it before. After that experience, I was hooked. My little Magnavox didn’t cut it anymore. I “had” to have a better stereo system. The next weekend I went to David Beatty in KC and bought a B & O Beogram TT (I still have it), a Yamaha receiver and cassette deck and some AR speakers.
And that is how my high end audio journey began. I still attend lots of concerts and love live music. My system is on pretty much whenever I am home and awake. CDs as background music when I’m cooking or running around the house and vinyl for serious listening. My friends tell me they know I’m not home when they can’t hear the music at the front door. Over the years I have upgraded my system several times as my budget has allowed. The goal is always better sound. My primary interest in audio is still reproducing the music in my home to sound as close to and as natural as live music, recognizing that it will never be exactly the same.
I have a lot of female friends who enjoy coming to my house and listening to music. We have pot luck dinner/listening sessions at least once and usually twice per month. I have helped several put together an audio system. I have been to RMAF for the past 11 years and I have noticed more females each year who are passionate about the music and reproducing it at a high level, and not just humoring their husbands. While we are a very distinct minority, I believe there are more women music enthusiasts/audiophiles than you might think. I also believe some male audiophiles send a message that women aren't welcomed in audiophile land (calling your listening room a "man cave" does not sound very inclusive or inviting to women).
Thanks for letting me share another point of view on this topic.
Vinyl_lady"
FWIW, etc, etc...
Anand.
"I have read through post #34 in the "Why are there so few women audiophiles," and I am quite disappointed in the tone of most of the responses and what I read as a lack of respect for women's appreciation of good sound. Fortunately, in my experience most of the male audiophiles I know do not follow that line of thinking. I believe bullshruv in post #3 has the right idea -- "depends on your definition of audiophile..." I consider myself a music enthusiast. I'm also probably an audiophile, . . . depending on your definition. If audiophile means wanting to have a high quality listening experience in one's home, then I'm an audiophile. If it means obsessing over gear and/or DYI, then I'm not an audiophile. For me, the gear is a means to an end and the end being a home listening experience as close to live as my budget will allow, recognizing that it will never truly sound "live." I am interested in how gear sounds, not how or why it works.
For me, it has always been about the music. I have liked rock n roll from the time I was about 9 and heard Buddy Holly and some doo wop groups like the Del Vikings (Come Go with Me) in the late 50s at an older girl friend's house. I used to listen to top 40 AM radio and was a regular playing “name it and claim it.” That started my 45 collection. Through high school and college I had a one piece Magnavox stereo with detachable speakers to play my 45s and a few albums I started buying in the early 60s. I played records all the time, even when I was studying, as I went to sleep at night—pretty much whenever I was awake. I went to lots of concerts and clubs in college to hear live music. I didn’t know there was a “high end” to audio until I moved to KC MO in the mid 70s after law school and we went over to a friend’s house one night who had Martin Logan speakers, a Nakamichi tape deck, Girard TT, Marantz amp or receiver and I heard my favorite music in a way I had never heard it before. After that experience, I was hooked. My little Magnavox didn’t cut it anymore. I “had” to have a better stereo system. The next weekend I went to David Beatty in KC and bought a B & O Beogram TT (I still have it), a Yamaha receiver and cassette deck and some AR speakers.
And that is how my high end audio journey began. I still attend lots of concerts and love live music. My system is on pretty much whenever I am home and awake. CDs as background music when I’m cooking or running around the house and vinyl for serious listening. My friends tell me they know I’m not home when they can’t hear the music at the front door. Over the years I have upgraded my system several times as my budget has allowed. The goal is always better sound. My primary interest in audio is still reproducing the music in my home to sound as close to and as natural as live music, recognizing that it will never be exactly the same.
I have a lot of female friends who enjoy coming to my house and listening to music. We have pot luck dinner/listening sessions at least once and usually twice per month. I have helped several put together an audio system. I have been to RMAF for the past 11 years and I have noticed more females each year who are passionate about the music and reproducing it at a high level, and not just humoring their husbands. While we are a very distinct minority, I believe there are more women music enthusiasts/audiophiles than you might think. I also believe some male audiophiles send a message that women aren't welcomed in audiophile land (calling your listening room a "man cave" does not sound very inclusive or inviting to women).
Thanks for letting me share another point of view on this topic.
Vinyl_lady"
FWIW, etc, etc...
Anand.
Thank you Vinyl Lady!
I can't resist asking this question: What is your current gear
[And I am guessing this is THE question that first popped up, for many in this thread 🙂 ]
I can't resist asking this question: What is your current gear
[And I am guessing this is THE question that first popped up, for many in this thread 🙂 ]
From Vinylady:
"25 x 18 with cathedral ceiling on a 9/12 pitch with a 17 ft peak
System Overview
2-channel system featuring Daedalus DA-1.1 version 2 speakers with AP crossovers, two Daedalus BOW sub woofers powered by a Bryston 4B ST, ModWright amplification, ModWright LS/PS 36.5 DM pre amp, ModWright PH 150 phono stage, Zesto Andros phono stage, SME analog front end and Oppo BDP 105 Darby with ModWright tube modification digital front end in an acoustically treated room pursuant to a Rives Audio design"
Best,
Anand.
In response, I am just as disappointed with my experience as the vinyl lady.
But do not try to make the outlier the norm. It is not a matter of imagination.
No one said there are no women audiophiles just most of us have never met one. Is that our fault?
I doubt any of us would ever discourage a woman as an audiophile.
One of my favorite guides to audio was Enid Lumley who wrote for ABSOLUTE SOUND and for Peter Moncreif's IAR. I use her advice on a daily basis and consider her one of the great audio tinkerers and there is no higher complement I can give to an audiophile.
As with so many fields, the outlier is usually of incredibly high quality and I do not doubt vinyl lady is just that. But please dispense with the feigned "offense" stuff. There is enough of that and you certainly know there are not many women who care about audio as the men who care about audio.
All of us know there are not that many men who care about audio and most of them won't stop talking while music is playing either. Certainly the vast majority of human beings seem to not care about listening to music ANYWHERE with rapt attention, whether in the home or in a venue.
In my experience, please note I am speaking for myself, only, I have never listened to music with a woman who wanted to just listen to the music for anything longer than two or three minutes.
I have no desire to demand attention so I will turn the volume down and enjoy the conversation with the music in the background.
But do not try to make the outlier the norm. It is not a matter of imagination.
No one said there are no women audiophiles just most of us have never met one. Is that our fault?
I doubt any of us would ever discourage a woman as an audiophile.
One of my favorite guides to audio was Enid Lumley who wrote for ABSOLUTE SOUND and for Peter Moncreif's IAR. I use her advice on a daily basis and consider her one of the great audio tinkerers and there is no higher complement I can give to an audiophile.
As with so many fields, the outlier is usually of incredibly high quality and I do not doubt vinyl lady is just that. But please dispense with the feigned "offense" stuff. There is enough of that and you certainly know there are not many women who care about audio as the men who care about audio.
All of us know there are not that many men who care about audio and most of them won't stop talking while music is playing either. Certainly the vast majority of human beings seem to not care about listening to music ANYWHERE with rapt attention, whether in the home or in a venue.
In my experience, please note I am speaking for myself, only, I have never listened to music with a woman who wanted to just listen to the music for anything longer than two or three minutes.
I have no desire to demand attention so I will turn the volume down and enjoy the conversation with the music in the background.
Important point and sadly, that point somehow gets put in the backseat so often whenever the gender debates break out.
Q : do audiophiles have a partner ?
A1 : nope, never had
A2 : once, but she left the next day
A3 : yes, she said we get along fine provided we leave eachother alone
Q : do audiophiles have friends ?
A1 : yes, they drop by to take old gear off my hands at half price, about a week after I visited the annual audio show
A2 : loads, we see eachother each weekend at the audio club gathering
A1 : nope, never had
A2 : once, but she left the next day
A3 : yes, she said we get along fine provided we leave eachother alone
Q : do audiophiles have friends ?
A1 : yes, they drop by to take old gear off my hands at half price, about a week after I visited the annual audio show
A2 : loads, we see eachother each weekend at the audio club gathering
Our hobby can be very technical and fiddly, if you do it like a lot of us here. My experience is that women hate the technical and fiddly stuff but are OK with the results.
What I have always done looks like a pile of junk to a woman, until it's done. It magically becomes a worthwhile item, after being an object of intense scorn and derision, upon completion. This goes double for building custom cars, which I did for about 15 years - a shop with a half built hot rod is like female repellent; but when it's all done with a fancy paint job you're a pimp.
In my experience, women expect big projects to magically do themselves in a couple of hours. They also expect you to violate the laws of physics for their own convenience; we've all had the discussion about speaker size (SMALLER IS ALWAYS BETTER NO MATTER WHAT).
I prefer quality time in my workshop any day.
What I have always done looks like a pile of junk to a woman, until it's done. It magically becomes a worthwhile item, after being an object of intense scorn and derision, upon completion. This goes double for building custom cars, which I did for about 15 years - a shop with a half built hot rod is like female repellent; but when it's all done with a fancy paint job you're a pimp.
In my experience, women expect big projects to magically do themselves in a couple of hours. They also expect you to violate the laws of physics for their own convenience; we've all had the discussion about speaker size (SMALLER IS ALWAYS BETTER NO MATTER WHAT).
I prefer quality time in my workshop any day.
Yur right. There's nothing offensive in this thread.
To be fair, women probably find us insufferable in many ways too.
Men and women are different. Evolution made us that way in order to ensure the survival of the species. Society has changed a lot, but biologically we haven't hardly changed at all. And the PC police can't do anything about those facts.
A sociologist once explained to me that a man typically stays interested in a woman for about seven years, tops. Now I know that with a good marriage that people can remain in love for a long time, but you have to admit that it takes work. Anyway, the seven year plan is long enough to get Junior up on his feet and helping Mom with the chores. This is what worked for primitive societies, but we know it's not so simple now. But have we changed along with society?
Maybe not so much. My own experience is that I would usually find myself wondering how I could have been so interested in such a vapid talking machine. I used to be so interested in what she had to say; now I can't bear to hear it. Am I an a-hole, or a victim of my own biology?
Men and women are different. Evolution made us that way in order to ensure the survival of the species. Society has changed a lot, but biologically we haven't hardly changed at all. And the PC police can't do anything about those facts.
A sociologist once explained to me that a man typically stays interested in a woman for about seven years, tops. Now I know that with a good marriage that people can remain in love for a long time, but you have to admit that it takes work. Anyway, the seven year plan is long enough to get Junior up on his feet and helping Mom with the chores. This is what worked for primitive societies, but we know it's not so simple now. But have we changed along with society?
Maybe not so much. My own experience is that I would usually find myself wondering how I could have been so interested in such a vapid talking machine. I used to be so interested in what she had to say; now I can't bear to hear it. Am I an a-hole, or a victim of my own biology?
Maybe the real question should be "why do so few (self-identified) female audiophiles post on forums" - and I suspect in part that the lack of testosterone fueled id-iotry and competition not infrequently found in all male pastimes plays a part in their calculus 😉
the quip about shoes was perhaps unwise - but then, even though the most expensive shoes around by Louis Vuitton are actually for men (Manhattan Richelieu)
, at least they look practical to wear, unlike the acid-dream monstrous creations by Alexander McQueen
and don't think that some of our "wet-dream" audio nirvana systems wouldn't invoke the same reaction from most female audiophiles as do the above shoes to us?
money aside, really - why?
the quip about shoes was perhaps unwise - but then, even though the most expensive shoes around by Louis Vuitton are actually for men (Manhattan Richelieu)
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
, at least they look practical to wear, unlike the acid-dream monstrous creations by Alexander McQueen
and don't think that some of our "wet-dream" audio nirvana systems wouldn't invoke the same reaction from most female audiophiles as do the above shoes to us?
money aside, really - why?
The other day I saw black jeans in Calfifornian vaquero* style to die for.
But which shoes to match the pants ?
Kid Shelleen totally ruined my life.
(* single row of Mexican eagle metal buttons)
But which shoes to match the pants ?
Kid Shelleen totally ruined my life.
(* single row of Mexican eagle metal buttons)
That's because there have long been people with an sexist agenda who use such group truisms as the basis for pre-judging the abilities of individual women. We take another step from the darkness to the light when we take the extra effort to judge each other by our actual abilities as individuals rather than by our readily visible group tags, such as gender, or skin color. I would hope that efforts at eliminating prejudice be strongly engaged in by our institutions of higher learning, and by gov't offices.
My own view about this write years ago. Sorry, my level of english is inadequate for made a appropiate translation, perhaps some other can:
Elucubraciones
Elucubraciones
Keep the discussion respectful or expect points the next time I have to delete a post.
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