Boris,
Pluto's treble is very wide dispersion but it is not fully omnidirectional, the speaker is omni to 3khz after this it has very broad dispersion.
Going by the quality of Pluto I would love to build Orion but I do not have the space to do justice to them.
Pluto's treble is very wide dispersion but it is not fully omnidirectional, the speaker is omni to 3khz after this it has very broad dispersion.
Going by the quality of Pluto I would love to build Orion but I do not have the space to do justice to them.
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I have a feeling that even the smallest MBL still needs a huge room with tons of space around the speakers.
Though of limited value, here are some YouTube video of MBL. Though you are more likely to be hearing the camera than the speaker.
None the less, with my basic $500 computer stereo, the MBL sound very crisp and detailed with very noticeable presences -
For what it is worth to those who might care -
AudiogoN @ CES 2009: MBL high-end audio from Germany w/ omni-directional ribbon speakers + BIG amps - YouTube
MBL setup, speakers: MBL Reference Line 101, Audio Concept, Sweden - YouTube
MBL at work at the Capital Audiofest - YouTube
Maybe I'll get lucky and instead of adding links, it will embed the videos. If it doesn't to either, I'll edit and fix it.
Steve/bluewizard
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hmmm....
That is a bending wave device:
German Physiks - High End Technology Loudspeaker Manufactur - DDD Driver - Technology
Right, can we say all cone drivers are bending wave devices in the range where they go into breakup ??
As the titanium sheet has not much damping I would assume that the middle region, where the wave reaches the edge is broader than in usual fullrange drivers. But Tangband has a high-quality titanium fullrange driver in their product range, too.
No Sir, what I want to say is that there seems to be important, critical part of the frequency band in which the loudspeaker has to emit the same content in every direction in any given lateral plane so that the shape of direct wavefront is basically identical with the shape of laterally reflected wavefronts in order to enable the precedence effect to work effectively
I think that the frequency band it is somewhere around musical midrange that is 160<1600 Hz
in that frequency band the speaker has to be time coherent in every direction in any given lateral as this is prerequisite for preserving the shape of the wavefront
therefore it has to be either a fullrange driver, or a coincident speaker (like eg. KEF UniQ or Tannoy DC) or in any other case very carefully cross-over-ed speaker so that there be basically one acoustic center in this critical band
and in case as Yours that is of a 2 or 3-way stand speaker that is placed on it's back on the floor it seems that it takes a lot of luck to fulfill the above requirement - doesn't it? 🙂
is it clearer now?
the titanium driver I like and most probably I am going to use:
Visaton - Lautsprecher und Zubehör, Loudspeakers and Accessories
http://www.hifisound.de/oxid/out/oxbaseshop/html/0/test_pdf/VIS-1090247.pdf
Sorry, I'm slow (or maybe you guys are too fast... )
This is from pages back for answering my bipole proposal:
Reading these, why am I thinking of Bose 901, instead of other omni speakers?
This is from pages back for answering my bipole proposal:
Reading these, why am I thinking of Bose 901, instead of other omni speakers?
SL is quite unique, I amire this guy, because for most of the so called expert guys it is extremely difficult to say "WE do not know", and "I do not know" is a phrase You will NEVER hear from any of them 😉
well, perhaps BUT I think we should keep in mind what SL says in the former quote that He basically doesn't know
For my part I think that there is fundamental misunderstanding - what is needed is not the same spectral signature but essentially the same wavefront shape
therefore I believe that SL I right in His suspicion that perhaps "constant directivity over the whole frequency range" is not what we really need
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But the RAAL drivers are not side by side, but in a circle as you say. The "true" omni you show is also a circle but one diaphragme. I agree that two or three drivers next to each other is not good, they will be very directional, but that patterne changes dramaticalle with al lot of drivers next to each other, and a lot of driver in a circle? I havent seen the measurement so I don't comment on it, but many listening tests show that us audiophiles maybe worry to much about the phase.
I have read this thread twice now, and I still don't have a clear picture of the perfect omni other that the fostex flooder (and I had to go to another thread to actually see it).
My next step will definatly be to make some test speakers, and try all sorts of OB subs and definatly try my Mark Audio CHR-70 in flooder. I don't like the position of 7-10 inches above the floor, since I have to kids. What's the disadvantage of having it 30 inches high?
nah, fostex flooder is not a perfect omni, it was just a flooder that worked until it has been destroyed by a kitten 😉
as I said before I believe that true omni with uniform spherical polar response is not desirable, neither an omni with omnidirectional polar response at all frequencies is needed
one can try any configuration which in my opinion fulfill the basic requirements stated above - Beveridge placement, Stereolith-like back-to-back placement or a flooder - in that case made with a single driver or a coincident speaker (I have KEF's UniQ) or anything else 2 or 3-way - like tinitus Zen-like setup which I simply adore - provided the drivers are crossed over in such a way that frequency band of around 160<1600, perhaps preferably wider, is projected into the room in omnidrectional and time-coherent manner
difficult to say with certainty, I can see some possible disadvantages from the perspective of my hypothetical theory about flooder's operating principles, but these are just my hypotheses
the first is possible audibility of floor reflection with it's consequences second is that ceiling reflection comes earlier and at the same time reflected wavefront is less similar to the direct wavefront, also some problems can arise, third is greater roll off in the power response towards high frequencies because the high frequencies (due to directivity of the speaker) are projected directly onto smaller part of the room boundaries' area
BUT as Oliver (el'Ol) has observed some drivers in flooder configuration benefit from positioning closer to the floor and some from positioning at ear level
(un)fortunately we haven't got any Blauert papers 😉 so it is all purely DIY hit-and-miss fun 🙂
ps. photo of the original fostex flooder is to be found here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/162827-mpl-12.html#post2222633
what You can do in order to save Your flooder from kids and kittens 😉 is to secure it with a kind of stiff grille - grille cloth stretched on a kind of wire mesh cage perhaps?
a cage of appropriate size covered with grille cloth can be just put onto (around) a flooder perhaps?
My current speakers.
These could actually be convertet quite easy I think. Sub is stereo and each have two 6½ inch woofers in isobaric/compound cabinet. Top is 4" Tangband full ranger (W4-1320SB). Crossover point at 200 Hz.
Woofer is pointing up, as in a flooder. This positioning gives less kick in the chest, than frontfiring with same cabinet.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
These could actually be convertet quite easy I think. Sub is stereo and each have two 6½ inch woofers in isobaric/compound cabinet. Top is 4" Tangband full ranger (W4-1320SB). Crossover point at 200 Hz.
Woofer is pointing up, as in a flooder. This positioning gives less kick in the chest, than frontfiring with same cabinet.
there it is: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...speakers-not-more-popular-52.html#post2664566
this is it, they are just lying on the floor, great, isn't it? though impractical from the point of view of kids-and-kittens' management 😉
This? I think we have different settings in numbers of posts per page, and therefor links don't really work. What is the post number?
I have hoped for some more serious pictures than just three units layin around. It's nice to see a Duelund flower cone, these are not seen often.
but this is it, perhaps it doesn't look serious but it is, some tinitus comments on it:
Im listening to this in dipole omni right now
drivers are just placed on the floor
drivers are nothing special, just used what I had
I have no idea what it is, but it works😛
despite cheap cheap drivers, classical especially is amasingly good
Im building other speakers, but I could live with this forever
Im sure theres a whole world of undiscouvered sound hidden in omni designs, and the crossover needed for such
what m trying to say is that every each speaker design has its own special demands for crossover design
and even if you have a good idea about what you want to achieve, you wont really know for sure until its built
I hope not
and it is kind of difficult to describe a 'speaker' having all its drivers scattered over the floor 😛
even bumping around, occationally 😀
but dammit, it works
if only it didnt, and I could just 'throw it away'
fortunately there's someone who wants it
and my task is to put it in a more practical construction
now, the interesting part is whether it looses or gains from this
well, each 'speaker' holds a 15" and a 10", as well as a 2" 'tweeter
15" on the back
the job is to make it look like nothing
or in other words, something discrete
they dont want it
and hate it even more if doesnt sound good 🙄
obviously this is not a highend thing
is just something that spreads nice music in a living room, all day long, if needed
hell, a tiny 2way placed close to the ceiling could that too
but not with bass like this one
I hope to reveal the details later, if worth it
I just thought that tinitus had a finished speaker. He and you advocate for omni's, and it seems you know a lot about the topic. Seeing your final results might give the answer why omni are not that popular. The popular commercial omnis are not omnis but poludirectional, and real omnis don't exist other than speaker laying around the floor, or as a Kef UniQ laying on it's back.
I have had 1 hour alone with the B&O flagship, and I was impressed. I just have to try it myself. But, this thread have not convinced me, that omni is the holy (g)raal. Maybee it's not the purpose of this thread?
I have had 1 hour alone with the B&O flagship, and I was impressed. I just have to try it myself. But, this thread have not convinced me, that omni is the holy (g)raal. Maybee it's not the purpose of this thread?
well, I have three answers to Your remarks
firstly, this is all about DIY - for my part the purpose of my posts is not to convince anybody but to get interested and encourage own DIY experimenting
I am not an industry guy and I also seek to learn from those experiments of other users, therefore I encourage them
secondly, perhaps any such thing as specially designed finished speaker is simply not needed if one is interested just in the enjoyment of music and doesn't have kids-and-kittens issues 😉 perhaps three drivers on the floor IS the holy grail at least for some of us
functionally tinitus' three speakers lying around IS a finished speaker because it is doing it's job
finally, persuaded by a friend, also a diyaudio user, I am in the process of development a finished speaker which will be state-of-the-art - if I may say so 😉 - flooder implementation that will be clonable and kids-and-kittens resistant
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