system7. Notice something about this crossover 😉 ?
Visaton - Lautsprecher und Zubehör, Loudspeakers and Accessories
Visaton - Lautsprecher und Zubehör, Loudspeakers and Accessories
Er, it's blue. It doesn't work very well with anything I threw at it, which is quite surprising coming from the same engineers who gave us the Panzer Tank and V2 rocket......😕
No, I give up....🙂
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Huh? They make others you know. 😕
Visaton - Lautsprecher und Zubehör, Loudspeakers and Accessories
300 to 4000 was the old telephone frequency range back in the day, but I still don't get it. I've a feeling you're going to tell us though. 😀
Note that in this later crossover you have posted they are steering clear off the 3k, where the ear has highest sensitivity. This crossover is closer to Panos setup and I suspect it is driver characteristics limited.
Pano has 700Hz to 7kHz. Not bad. Some female voices will be in the bass driver. The 7kHz is wonderfully selected (I am ok with 6k or 7k, although the material here is limited but very useful in providing openess, were it not for the limitation of the mid, this should also have been reproduced by one driver, Maybe Pano can tell us more I suspect his sytem sounds magical)
Panos, selection of 700Hz for the low end is as a result of limitation by the mid as such since some female voices are now reproduced by the bass driver. He could convert his system into a four way and split the bass after the 700Hz into 2.
Assume our beautiful singer is whispering sweet nothings to the pounding of some rhythm as the bass driver engages in matador sports we want our female voice sitted safely in the mid driver.
Pano has 700Hz to 7kHz. Not bad. Some female voices will be in the bass driver. The 7kHz is wonderfully selected (I am ok with 6k or 7k, although the material here is limited but very useful in providing openess, were it not for the limitation of the mid, this should also have been reproduced by one driver, Maybe Pano can tell us more I suspect his sytem sounds magical)
Panos, selection of 700Hz for the low end is as a result of limitation by the mid as such since some female voices are now reproduced by the bass driver. He could convert his system into a four way and split the bass after the 700Hz into 2.
Assume our beautiful singer is whispering sweet nothings to the pounding of some rhythm as the bass driver engages in matador sports we want our female voice sitted safely in the mid driver.
I'm not sure, OnAudio. I think you might be obsessing there. A sign of high level autism perhaps. And NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT, IMO. 😉
I'm terribly pleased with my little bookshelves after a bit of work. Yes, I know, it could do with some better setting up. I can't do the full BBC trap thing because I don't know much about the woofers, and the metal tweeters could do with replacing. Rythmic, clean, detailed bass now I've tamed it and used wall reinforcement rather than any funky old reflex and bafflestep. Imaging to die for. Paul Simon's "Take me to the Mardi Gras" never sounded better. 😎
In fact while the reflex boys go on about how great reflex is, they are then arguing about how to get it sounding right. So it's not sounding right, is it? 😀
AllenB raised the interesting observation that he always liked big old simple 2-way closed boxes with valve amps. So did I. It's all been done before. Mickey Moonlight shows off some classic British speakers here. How many can you recognise?
I can't place the little one, as it goes.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I'm terribly pleased with my little bookshelves after a bit of work. Yes, I know, it could do with some better setting up. I can't do the full BBC trap thing because I don't know much about the woofers, and the metal tweeters could do with replacing. Rythmic, clean, detailed bass now I've tamed it and used wall reinforcement rather than any funky old reflex and bafflestep. Imaging to die for. Paul Simon's "Take me to the Mardi Gras" never sounded better. 😎
In fact while the reflex boys go on about how great reflex is, they are then arguing about how to get it sounding right. So it's not sounding right, is it? 😀
AllenB raised the interesting observation that he always liked big old simple 2-way closed boxes with valve amps. So did I. It's all been done before. Mickey Moonlight shows off some classic British speakers here. How many can you recognise?
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I can't place the little one, as it goes.
system7, female voices
1.
Flagship Hi-fi Speakers - Muon - Fact Sheet - Muon - Muon - KEF United States
notice something 😉 .......the 300Hz
2.
Krell Industries, Incorporated, America's premiere manufacturer of high-end audio equipment: award-winning amplifiers, preamplifiers, CD players, DVD players, surround/sound processors, loudspeakers
Ok Krell decided its 200Hz
3.
Product Image View
Ok. These guys decided it was 240Hz
4.
https://passlabs.com/products/speaker/sr/sr-21
Ok. Pass decided its both male and female voices
5.
Goldmund - Epilogue 1+2
Ok. These guys decided it was both male and female voices
6.
EEEh the list goes on
1.
Flagship Hi-fi Speakers - Muon - Fact Sheet - Muon - Muon - KEF United States
notice something 😉 .......the 300Hz
2.
Krell Industries, Incorporated, America's premiere manufacturer of high-end audio equipment: award-winning amplifiers, preamplifiers, CD players, DVD players, surround/sound processors, loudspeakers
Ok Krell decided its 200Hz
3.
Product Image View
Ok. These guys decided it was 240Hz
4.
https://passlabs.com/products/speaker/sr/sr-21
Ok. Pass decided its both male and female voices
5.
Goldmund - Epilogue 1+2
Ok. These guys decided it was both male and female voices
6.
EEEh the list goes on
Actually most, I think. It's kinda divided into fundamentals in the woofer, harmonics in the horn. Not strictly, but sorta. The woofer has a short front horn the same width as the mid horn. I think that helps.
Task: design worlds best speaker
Hints:
1. Equal loudness contours
2. Frequency Chart
3. 7 Harmonics per driver (for example if the lower frequency limit of a driver is 1kHz, then the upper frequency limit is 7kHz)
Assumptions,
4. Lowest female voice is 300Hz
5. Lowest male voice is 100Hz
6. Highest ear sensitivity 3kHz
Approach 1:
7. Starting from 20k, divide this by 7 to get crossover frequency of tweeter : 20/7 = 3kHz
8. Divide 3kHz to get next crossover frequency : 3000/7 = 400Hz
9. 400/7 = 60Hz
10. 60/7 = 8Hz
Driver 1: 20k - 3k
Driver 2: 3k - 400Hz
Driver 3: 400Hz - 60Hz
Driver 4: 60Hz - 20Hz
We end up with a four way system
Tomorrow we look at other approaches and the optimum approach
Hints:
1. Equal loudness contours
2. Frequency Chart
3. 7 Harmonics per driver (for example if the lower frequency limit of a driver is 1kHz, then the upper frequency limit is 7kHz)
Assumptions,
4. Lowest female voice is 300Hz
5. Lowest male voice is 100Hz
6. Highest ear sensitivity 3kHz
Approach 1:
7. Starting from 20k, divide this by 7 to get crossover frequency of tweeter : 20/7 = 3kHz
8. Divide 3kHz to get next crossover frequency : 3000/7 = 400Hz
9. 400/7 = 60Hz
10. 60/7 = 8Hz
Driver 1: 20k - 3k
Driver 2: 3k - 400Hz
Driver 3: 400Hz - 60Hz
Driver 4: 60Hz - 20Hz
We end up with a four way system
Tomorrow we look at other approaches and the optimum approach
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No problems whatsoever. They never sound compressed or strained. Stuff like Beethoven doesn't have the thunderous bass or acoustic you'd get with bigger boxes in a bigger room with a hefty amplifier, but then these ARE small bookshelves and they sound like them. The sort of thing a student in a hall of residence would like. They sound MUSICAL.
With the current global financial meltdown and the prospect of us all living on crusts soon, I am concentrating my efforts on modest affordable speakers. 😀
20-40, 40-80, 80-160, 160-320 four octaves
320-640, 640-1.28k, 1.28-2.56, 2.56-5.12 another four, leaving just 2
2way 5 octave each would work with the right drivers, hence my choice of 600hz for the frs5x
320-640, 640-1.28k, 1.28-2.56, 2.56-5.12 another four, leaving just 2
2way 5 octave each would work with the right drivers, hence my choice of 600hz for the frs5x
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Approach 2: (Note this approach steers clear off the 3kHz, It also captures the human voice in one driver, however not yet optimum)
Starting from the opposite end
20Hz *7 = 140Hz
140Hz*7 = 1kHz
1KHz *7 = 7kHz
7kHz *7 = 50kHz
Driver 1 : 20Hz - 140 Hz
Driver 2 : 140Hz - 1kHz (Our female voice is caughtup with male voices and the room boom)
Driver 3 : 1kHz - 7kHz
Driver 4 : 7kHz - 50kHz
Starting from the opposite end
20Hz *7 = 140Hz
140Hz*7 = 1kHz
1KHz *7 = 7kHz
7kHz *7 = 50kHz
Driver 1 : 20Hz - 140 Hz
Driver 2 : 140Hz - 1kHz (Our female voice is caughtup with male voices and the room boom)
Driver 3 : 1kHz - 7kHz
Driver 4 : 7kHz - 50kHz
Approach 3:
Pick 300Hz as a partitioning frequency
300Hz/7 = 42Hz
300Hz *7 = 2100Hz
2100Hz*7 = 14700Hz
We get sloppy and end up with a three way system
Driver 1 : 20Hz - 300 Hz
Driver 2 : 300Hz - 2.1kHz
Driver 3 : 2.1kHz - 20kHz
We decide to isolate the male voices so that we can have a deep grunt woofer, we end up four way
Driver 1 : 20Hz - 100 Hz
Driver 2 : 100Hz - 300Hz
Driver 3 : 300Hz - 2.1kHz
Driver 4 : 2.1kHz - 20kHz (The high frequency driver is covering too much, but the secret, is there recorded material at these high frequencies ?)
This is the approach used by these guys Flagship Hi-fi Speakers - Muon - Fact Sheet - Muon - Muon - KEF United States
Pick 300Hz as a partitioning frequency
300Hz/7 = 42Hz
300Hz *7 = 2100Hz
2100Hz*7 = 14700Hz
We get sloppy and end up with a three way system
Driver 1 : 20Hz - 300 Hz
Driver 2 : 300Hz - 2.1kHz
Driver 3 : 2.1kHz - 20kHz
We decide to isolate the male voices so that we can have a deep grunt woofer, we end up four way
Driver 1 : 20Hz - 100 Hz
Driver 2 : 100Hz - 300Hz
Driver 3 : 300Hz - 2.1kHz
Driver 4 : 2.1kHz - 20kHz (The high frequency driver is covering too much, but the secret, is there recorded material at these high frequencies ?)
This is the approach used by these guys Flagship Hi-fi Speakers - Muon - Fact Sheet - Muon - Muon - KEF United States
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You can successfully cross in the kHz region if your design is sound. If you are not completely sure what to expect, then expect that you may or may not need to work at reducing sibilance issues, at the least, and this region is also sensitive with imaging.
The gold is still in the vaults 😉 . For people to be happy money must flow. The current problem is being caused by hoarding of money.
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