http://www.eighteensound.com/staticContent/download/pdf/18Sound_diaphragm_procedure.pdf
see last item - 3V 200Hz seems safe for any driver..
When a horn driver does 115dB with 1 Watt you probably will never give it 1Watt. Because the low unit will need a lot of power to come to 115dB. I aspect you want to use a tube amplifier of <10W. With 10Watt a low unit will do about 107dB 1mtr max then the horn driver gets 0,16 Watt maximal to produce 107dB 1mtr.
Look at the curce it does flat response down to 1kHz not 800hz.
Here the 4524 it thous the same for hifi use even better it goes from 900Hz up to 30kHz. Even 800Hz is possible. It does 113dB with 1 Watt very loud more then enough for hifi to cross it low.When you stay under the 116dB 1mtr
Here the 4550 1" 800Hz XO. You see it does 800Hz.
Last edited:
1" RCF H100 horn 33euro, cutoff 800Hz.
RCF H 100 CD HORN - Thomann UK Cyberstore
together with bms 4524 80 Euro total cost.
I use the H100 in the monitor XL just take a listen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO1Slm-LKS8&list=FLrFgSuaSQV5_rAchzA4BF2g&feature=mh_lolz
RCF H 100 CD HORN - Thomann UK Cyberstore
together with bms 4524 80 Euro total cost.
I use the H100 in the monitor XL just take a listen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO1Slm-LKS8&list=FLrFgSuaSQV5_rAchzA4BF2g&feature=mh_lolz
Last edited:
Yes Helmuth,things gets more clear to me...I've watched the measurements.And you've pointed good on this "With 10Watt a low unit will do about 107dB 1mtr max then the horn driver gets 0,16 Watt maximal to produce 107dB 1mtr."You tell me also about the possibility to cut the 4524 at 800 Hz...for now I have an Ahuja(Skytronic)Adastra 16 Ohm 60 W cheap drivers-Jean Michele Le'Cleac'h has told me to use this driver from 400Hz up to 1500 Hz or so,saying that it will be surprinsingly good regarding his low price-anyway I want to cut it higher to see how it will sound,at 3000 Hz or something(on my 15 wood multicells)...I haven't try it yet(actually now I just finish my system!) but I can even wait...my question regarding an good budget mid CD is for the future when I'll upgrade...
Thanks for your answer,we all learn from each other(at leats this the way it is suposed to be😀)I've seen your clip on youtube and I have one question(or sugestion)for you---have you listen to a CD in a wood horn?!?!?the horn material and his acustical properties(the amplifier play a big role also) is almost 50% of the sound...."Mother of tone".1" RCF H100 horn 33euro, cutoff 800Hz.
RCF H 100 CD HORN - Thomann UK Cyberstore
together with bms 4524 80 Euro total cost.
I use the H100 in the monitor XL just take a listen.
Studio-monitor monitor XL - YouTube
A big horn covered by a small one above lets say 3000Hz will make a poor combination. Interference that causes lobbing.
To prevent that the units must be with in 1/4 wave length at 3000Hz that is about 3cm. Then they will act as a point source.
To prevent that the units must be with in 1/4 wave length at 3000Hz that is about 3cm. Then they will act as a point source.
One friend of mine said about multicells from his own experience : "Above 4000 Hz, each cell starts to beam, so one want to filter it slightly below. I have tried to use it to 6 kHz but it sounded coloured and harsh." so with an optimal time-domain alignement everything will be ok...
Helmuth you haven't answered me: "I have one question(or sugestion)for you---have you listen to a CD in a wood horn?!?!?the horn material and his acustical properties(the amplifier play a big role also) is almost 50% of the sound...."Mother of tone" "
It will be easier to use a cone to 800-1000Hz and cover the rest with one horn.
A three way tappedhorn sub - middriver 6-8" - 1" HF.
I did not do experiments of this kind.
I do have experience with influence of XO capacitors voltage dividers wire wound , metal-oxide or auto-transformer. This in combination with class-D and tube amplifier.
And harshness is caused by bad combinations and a not smooth response. I believe wood can absorb sound(mother of the tone) not direct improve sound quality.
Last edited:
Regarding the acustical-musical properties,"soul and life" of instruments or audio sistems I have a few statements(I have some experience here...) to make! The vision,the design,the quality,the implementing concept and material of electric parts-components plays a very important role in an audio system,but that's the first part of "the birth of the sound" but what happen with the waves of sound in the air after that?????tThe air molecules will have a contact with the horn material and therefore we will have absorbtion,reflection,dispersion, and it's a simple physics law that every material has it's own vibrational caracter....that's way more important and crucial then people might think..The metal strings of a violin which cause the air to vibrate,are in a way similar to the drivers ok???So how do you explain that an titanium,poliester,marble,rubber or plastic violin(or cello,guitar,etc)will sound extremely different-evident worse then an maple and spruce violin?!?!?!???????If your strings(elctrical components of the system) are so good why don't you gave them the chance to come to life in a optimal and natural cabinet materials?!?!????These things will never be SCIENCE but ART(scientists are having hard days and are completely smashed,shocked and confused trying to find the secrets methods of Antonio Stradivari.,Guarnieri,etc).Anyway I want to post a special thread where we all will discust and sincerely debate(at least we'll try,everyone with his "2 cents") the UNSEEN,THE UNSCIENTIFIC,THE INEFFABLE,THE MIRACULOUS,THE MAGIC TONE,TIMBRE AND THE BEAUTY OF THE CHARACTER OF THE MUSICAL SOUND....and where(not geographic position😀) that MUSIC SOUL LIVE in an audio or an acustic system,because I'm extremely shure that can be found....By the way I'm on my way,trying,searching....
Ok,that's enough I'm tired so I'm going to bad now...
A instrument like a violin or guitar uses the harmonics of the wooden shape.
When you are building a loudspeaker we do not want to introduce any harmonic behavior so we listen to the original reproduction of the recording. So very stiff non resonant material is required like metal, stone, polyurethane or glass-fiber or softer nonresonant wood like Birch.
When you are building a loudspeaker we do not want to introduce any harmonic behavior so we listen to the original reproduction of the recording. So very stiff non resonant material is required like metal, stone, polyurethane or glass-fiber or softer nonresonant wood like Birch.
Last edited:
This is not entirely accurate.
While it is true that we don't want to introduce *additional* harmonics, or accentuate harmonics that are part of the recorded performance, the means to achieve the most effective *overall* result are not necessarily predicated on non-resonant materials/enclosures.
A good example of this is vibration transmitted from VC to frame and back again (etc.). The best coupling to have is one that is very resonant, that carries vibration from the frame out to the baffle and only thereafter dissipates that energy further away from the frame - essentially acting as an energy "sink" for the driver's frame.
A baffle/driver coupling that is totally non-resonant may be the *worst* possible "solution" - effectively "trapping" and storing that energy to act on the VC's motion.
The above is of course dependent on the driver itself.
Good points here ScottG.....and it's only a small part of the entire reality about how vibration and resonance of the materials afect the sound...
Hello Mr Maestro. I am on the road of building a horn loaded loudspeaker system. I think we can colaborate.
I am building my own horns bdw. I will try my luck with a large format CD, and a big tractrix horn(70 cm diameter). The cheapest driver that can cover most of the mids is Monacor KU-516. 160 to 6500 Hz. It is not an ultimate solution but it is a good start. Sound quality is still a mistery.
Someone from Poland measured it, and the results were good(linear response).
The CD *might* be a copy of an old high end driver.
I am building my own horns bdw. I will try my luck with a large format CD, and a big tractrix horn(70 cm diameter). The cheapest driver that can cover most of the mids is Monacor KU-516. 160 to 6500 Hz. It is not an ultimate solution but it is a good start. Sound quality is still a mistery.
Someone from Poland measured it, and the results were good(linear response).
The CD *might* be a copy of an old high end driver.
YES"we do not want to introduce any harmonic behavior"but the REAL FACT IS THAT THESE HARMONICS AND TONAL CHARACTER OF SOUND ARE PRESENT IN THE ECUATION...WE DON'T HAVE AN DRIVER-TRANSDUCER WITHOUT CABINET SUSPENDED IN SPACE AND EVEN IF WE'LL HAVE ONE THEN THE DRIVER'S SHAPES AND MATERIALS AND THE RAPORT BTW THEM WILL HAVE A SIGNATURE OVER SOUND....METAL,STONE,POLYURETANE,GLASS FIBER,ETC.-EVERY MATERIAL UNDER THE SUN WILL HAVE THEIR OWN RESONANCE AND ABSORBTION-REFLECTION CHARACTER SO.....?????IMAGINE AN ENTIRE ROOM MADE FROM STEEL MY FRIEND,HOW WILL IT SOUND?????????OR AN ENTIRE ROOM MADE FROM MARBLE OR STONE????OR GLASS????I GUESS IT'S NOT AN HIGH LEVEL PHILOSOPHY TO KNOW THAT THE SOUND WILL BE EXACTLY LIKE WE PHISICALLY AND EMOTIONALLY PERCEIVE THOSE MATERIALS-COLD,HARD,HARSH,REFLECTIVE,ETC.
THE MATERIAL WHICH IS MOST CLOSED RELATED TO OUR BRAIN-HEART AND to ALL THE "SYSTEM" TROUGH WHICH WE PERCEIVE ,LISTEN AND FEEL THE MUSIC IS THE ONE WHICH IS INDEED STRUCTURALLY AND ORGANICALLY BEST RELATED-AND THIS IS WOOD....OUR ORGANIC ANALOG AUDIO SYSTEM IS MADE FROM FLASH AND BONES AND WOOD IS RELATIVELY "SIMILAR", WOOD IT'S A LIVING CELULLAR STRUCTURE,EVEN HIS TEMPERATURE GIVES THE WARM AND SUPERB TONE TO THE SOUND....IT''S SO SIMPLE(indeed after years of researching)TO SEE THAT AN COLD(yes degrees)MATERIAL CAN NOT GIVE AN WARM SOUND....OK FOR THOSE WHO THINK THAT I'M "WOOD OBSSESED"I'LL TELL THEM THAT THIS IS NOT THE CASE....I'M SEARCHING FOR A BALANCE....THERE ARE A FEW COMPONENTS IN A SYSTEM THAT MUST REMAIN DEAD-STRONG(at least as much as possible) AND TO BLOCK UNWANTED VIBRATIONS,TO PREVENT LOSS OF MUSICAL ENEREGY,ETC. AND TO OFFER BETTER MECHANICAL DECOUPLING(LIKE SPIKES OR PLINTHS)THAT MUST USE THEIR SOLID,,STABILE,PRECISE,FERM AND HEAVY PROPERTIES TO(again beautifull and simple I would say!)TO GIVE THE SOUND A SOLID,STABLE,PRECISE AND HEAVY CHARACTER!!!!!!!LET'S FACE IT ONCE IN THIS LIFE THAT ALL AUDIO COMPONENTS(even an small capacitor vibrates and the gap dimension is changing because his foiles oscillate so .....???)ARE BEAHEVING MUCH MORE LIKE ACUSTIC INSTRUMENTS,BECAUSE EVREYTHING VIBRATES AND RECEIVE VIBRATIONS FROM OTHER COMPONENTS,THE SECRET AND GOAL REMAIN HERE: HOW WE'LL MODELLATE AND ADMINISTRATE THAT VIBRATIONAL CHARACTER...WE CAN NOT SAY LIKE THIS: I HAVE A LIVE RECORDING FROM AN CHURCH AND NOW HERE AT MY PLACE ON MY CHOUCH I HAVE EXACLTY-100% THAT RECORDING....WHERE IS ALL THE THINGS I'VE EXPOSED ABOVE,WHERE IS THE ABSOLUT INEVITABLE SIGNATURE OF THE SYSTEM THEN????WE CAN NOT PRETEND ANYMORE THAT THERE ARE MATERIALS WHICH "ARE NOT FROM THIS WORLD"AND THAT THESE WILL NOT VIBRATE-CHANGE-AFFECT(in a bad or good way) AND PUT THEIR SIGNATURE ON THE REPRODUCED SOUND!!!!!!!THIS IS A TOTALL UTOPIA!!!!!
- Status
- Not open for further replies.