Hi Max Caliber,
You seem to have all the test equipment necessary to measure the T/S parameters for your AW1805Q. That is really the first step towards building a decent box for that particular driver.
As to the Decware House Wrecker: it is a 6th order bandpass (BP6) enclosure, and the size (chamber volumes, porting) depends on the driver you use. People have build these, and just messed with the driver(s), chambers and ports, and arrived at something they liked, or maybe not. That is definitely doing it the hard way.
Regards,
You seem to have all the test equipment necessary to measure the T/S parameters for your AW1805Q. That is really the first step towards building a decent box for that particular driver.
As to the Decware House Wrecker: it is a 6th order bandpass (BP6) enclosure, and the size (chamber volumes, porting) depends on the driver you use. People have build these, and just messed with the driver(s), chambers and ports, and arrived at something they liked, or maybe not. That is definitely doing it the hard way.
Regards,
Last edited:
Philip,
The box tuning does not change when a different driver is put in the box, sounds like the AW1805Q does not work well in a large box.
From the sims in previous posts, looks like small boxes with higher tunings work better for the AW1805Q.
You could tune the box lower and use the JBL, you could probably still get decent level dropping the tuning as low as 12- 15 Hz.
Regardless of the driver, excursion will go up drastically while output goes down at 24 dB per octave below Fb, while a sealed cabinet drops at 12 dB per octave, but is less efficient. A HP filter just below the tuning will be needed to keep most drivers from exceeding Xmax in a 12 cubic foot box.
You didn't mention actual level desired, but one box I have been quite pleased with is the Mackie HRS 120.
It is -3 dB at 19 Hz, 117 dB one meter free field response. Not bone crushing loud, but when you start looking at LF levels down deep, pretty respectable, especially considering an internal volume of just over 2 cubic feet. Uses a 12 inch woofer with "over 45 mm cone excursion" and a 12 inch passive radiator powered by a 400 watt amp.
Oh, I am a big fan of the P-2200, they can do 350 watts at 4 ohm, 500 watts at 2 ohm, but current limits below 2.8 ohm. I wouldn't doubt they can put out 700 watt peaks at 4 ohm, that is one amp that always seemed to do way more than it's specs would say, unlike most of today's amps.
The HRS 120 response in my small control room with it in a corner goes well below 20 Hz, while doing the digital equivalent of "tape scrubbing", it has hit the resonant frequency of the sheetrock behind it, the walls literally were shaking at around 15 Hz or so. It will visibly move the control room door, which is quite heavy.
I purchased the sub used, after demoing it in a large showroom. I was impressed that it had enough guts to excite the reverberant field at VLF frequencies in around an 8000 square foot room. It made all the other studio subs I had demoed that dayseem like toys, they all chuffed and coughed when pushed, the HRS 120 could shake stuff and flutter pants legs.
It is one of the few speakers I own that I have not built myself. I can't think of any speaker with much better LF output to size ratio, and believe me, I have looked at a lot of options. It also sounds quite good.
The response below is with the 15 Hz HP filter engaged, the spec sheets don't show the response without, but it does seem to handle VLF "junk" without any audible sounds of destruction, even if it may not put out much level below 15 Hz.
The driver's excursion will be at minimum at Fb, it is possible that the box is tuned higher than 20 Hz.
Have you ever visually verified your box tuning frequency?
Art
Attachments
Last edited:
Hi Gents
I have more or less come to the conclusion that the AW1805 just won’t work in the 12cf box, it might blast as a car-sub in a small box, but as you are probably know that most of these systems are simply one note wonders designed to be LOUD but not necessarily clean. Putting this driver in a larger box in a hope that it will deliver some sub-sonics was perhaps a mistake on my part that I will logged as a sad experience .
The AW1805 I would now be willing to junk in the hope I could find a decent replacement that functions in a 12cf box, any ideas?
weltersys I like the sound of the P2200 and those gorgeous BIG true peak-reading meters, however I only use them for the mids and my Heils. But beware this amp has a notorious (and probably well deserved) reputation in the pro-industry and is often called the “P-22 ho-puff” !!
The reason being is that with only 3 transistors per supply rail in a unit that was designed to deliver 230 watts RMS into 8 ohms, the Safe Operating Area (or SOA) of the output transistors were easily exceeded, even when running an 8 ohm speaker. To put this into perspective, the contemporary Crown DC300A amp (150 watt/chn), had (I believe) 5 power transistors per power rail. Even Yamaha removed the 4 ohm rating from their original specification and later listed the amp as an 8 ohm unit with warnings if driven below that value. The second generation P2002M, which was a considerable improvement over the P2200, was designed with 4 transistors per rail, and that amp still had many failures mostly due to overstressing the outputs. Bottom line, don’t believe anyone claiming they can (safely) drive any load below 8 ohms from a P2200, it will only lead you to a blown speaker because on top of the basic design problem mentioned above, this unit has NO speaker protection relay that would disconnect the load in the event of an output failure. The P2200 was Yamaha’s first attempt at getting into the pro audio high power market and it shows in the numerous faults it has with its design. Another major fault being a thermal limit LED warning that does nothing to protect the amp-speaker when the amp overheats
. I could go on but that would be a good item for a new thread in the solid-state area and not here. That basic reason I have them is because there are so many blown units out there that can be gotten for ridiculously low prices and they are VERY easy to fix and they do sound very good if the power is not driven to hard. In my system the 8x P2200 rarely reaches 10 watts PEAK and its blasting!!!
For the bass in my basement I use 3x Yamaha CP2000 amps (650 watts/chn into 4 ohms) pushing 6x 12” woofers in my ESS monitors, and for the Audiobahn I use an even bigger Yamaha P7000 setup as a bridge mono delivering over 1100 watts into 8 ohms. This should be enough to get some decent sound out of the AW1805 but like I said in an earlier post it’s a nothing but a big heater.
The 12cf enclosure I would like to keep the AW1805 can go, can anyone suggest a good replacement? Something with lots of X-Max, I have seen some rumors about a JBL 2269 which is supposed to be a lower FS version of the JBL 2268, does anyone have any comments or experience on this?
Many THX for the positive comments, they are appreciated.
Philip
I have more or less come to the conclusion that the AW1805 just won’t work in the 12cf box, it might blast as a car-sub in a small box, but as you are probably know that most of these systems are simply one note wonders designed to be LOUD but not necessarily clean. Putting this driver in a larger box in a hope that it will deliver some sub-sonics was perhaps a mistake on my part that I will logged as a sad experience .
The AW1805 I would now be willing to junk in the hope I could find a decent replacement that functions in a 12cf box, any ideas?
weltersys I like the sound of the P2200 and those gorgeous BIG true peak-reading meters, however I only use them for the mids and my Heils. But beware this amp has a notorious (and probably well deserved) reputation in the pro-industry and is often called the “P-22 ho-puff” !!
The reason being is that with only 3 transistors per supply rail in a unit that was designed to deliver 230 watts RMS into 8 ohms, the Safe Operating Area (or SOA) of the output transistors were easily exceeded, even when running an 8 ohm speaker. To put this into perspective, the contemporary Crown DC300A amp (150 watt/chn), had (I believe) 5 power transistors per power rail. Even Yamaha removed the 4 ohm rating from their original specification and later listed the amp as an 8 ohm unit with warnings if driven below that value. The second generation P2002M, which was a considerable improvement over the P2200, was designed with 4 transistors per rail, and that amp still had many failures mostly due to overstressing the outputs. Bottom line, don’t believe anyone claiming they can (safely) drive any load below 8 ohms from a P2200, it will only lead you to a blown speaker because on top of the basic design problem mentioned above, this unit has NO speaker protection relay that would disconnect the load in the event of an output failure. The P2200 was Yamaha’s first attempt at getting into the pro audio high power market and it shows in the numerous faults it has with its design. Another major fault being a thermal limit LED warning that does nothing to protect the amp-speaker when the amp overheats
. I could go on but that would be a good item for a new thread in the solid-state area and not here. That basic reason I have them is because there are so many blown units out there that can be gotten for ridiculously low prices and they are VERY easy to fix and they do sound very good if the power is not driven to hard. In my system the 8x P2200 rarely reaches 10 watts PEAK and its blasting!!! For the bass in my basement I use 3x Yamaha CP2000 amps (650 watts/chn into 4 ohms) pushing 6x 12” woofers in my ESS monitors, and for the Audiobahn I use an even bigger Yamaha P7000 setup as a bridge mono delivering over 1100 watts into 8 ohms. This should be enough to get some decent sound out of the AW1805 but like I said in an earlier post it’s a nothing but a big heater.
The 12cf enclosure I would like to keep the AW1805 can go, can anyone suggest a good replacement? Something with lots of X-Max, I have seen some rumors about a JBL 2269 which is supposed to be a lower FS version of the JBL 2268, does anyone have any comments or experience on this?
Many THX for the positive comments, they are appreciated.
Philip
hi max,
Hi Gents
I have more or less come to the conclusion that the AW1805 just won’t work in the 12cf box, it might blast as a car-sub in a small box, but as you are probably know that most of these systems are simply one note wonders designed to be LOUD but not necessarily clean. Putting this driver in a larger box in a hope that it will deliver some sub-sonics was perhaps a mistake on my part that I will logged as a sad experience .
The AW1805 I would now be willing to junk in the hope I could find a decent replacement that functions in a 12cf box, any ideas?
weltersys I like the sound of the P2200 and those gorgeous BIG true peak-reading meters, however I only use them for the mids and my Heils. But beware this amp has a notorious (and probably well deserved) reputation in the pro-industry and is often called the “P-22 ho-puff” !!
The reason being is that with only 3 transistors per supply rail in a unit that was designed to deliver 230 watts RMS into 8 ohms, the Safe Operating Area (or SOA) of the output transistors were easily exceeded, even when running an 8 ohm speaker. To put this into perspective, the contemporary Crown DC300A amp (150 watt/chn), had (I believe) 5 power transistors per power rail. Even Yamaha removed the 4 ohm rating from their original specification and later listed the amp as an 8 ohm unit with warnings if driven below that value. The second generation P2002M, which was a considerable improvement over the P2200, was designed with 4 transistors per rail, and that amp still had many failures mostly due to overstressing the outputs. Bottom line, don’t believe anyone claiming they can (safely) drive any load below 8 ohms from a P2200, it will only lead you to a blown speaker because on top of the basic design problem mentioned above, this unit has NO speaker protection relay that would disconnect the load in the event of an output failure. The P2200 was Yamaha’s first attempt at getting into the pro audio high power market and it shows in the numerous faults it has with its design. Another major fault being a thermal limit LED warning that does nothing to protect the amp-speaker when the amp overheats
For the bass in my basement I use 3x Yamaha CP2000 amps (650 watts/chn into 4 ohms) pushing 6x 12” woofers in my ESS monitors, and for the Audiobahn I use an even bigger Yamaha P7000 setup as a bridge mono delivering over 1100 watts into 8 ohms. This should be enough to get some decent sound out of the AW1805 but like I said in an earlier post it’s a nothing but a big heater.
The 12cf enclosure I would like to keep the AW1805 can go, can anyone suggest a good replacement? Something with lots of X-Max, I have seen some rumors about a JBL 2269 which is supposed to be a lower FS version of the JBL 2268, does anyone have any comments or experience on this?
Many THX for the positive comments, they are appreciated.
Philip
hi Max,
Well scrap if you got to but U could build the right box for it and add another box for lower or higher freqs,I read some reviews it was kicking *** for some people,go to decwares and read some,also go to nelson's site (first watt) and read those articles,BTW the homewrecker works great,just have to stuff them with poly and give them the juice,they like it .
I just got a ultra curve and it makes it all happen,i might chunk the sub eq I built and just roll off @ 250 and ultra curve the rest,the peavey 18' it's built very strong and you can get the basket if you can blow it up,I pumped 2000 rms watts into it and it still kicking,lol I looked at the 21" from parts express,but alot of people where not hot on the specs or quality,some people are building multiple boxes ,It's wide open you choose ,Let us know and have fun at it !!!!!
Find a good driver and match the box to it then it will make you happy!!!!!!!
Happy listening!
Cheers!
Well scrap if you got to but U could build the right box for it and add another box for lower or higher freqs,I read some reviews it was kicking *** for some people,go to decwares and read some,also go to nelson's site (first watt) and read those articles,BTW the homewrecker works great,just have to stuff them with poly and give them the juice,they like it .
I just got a ultra curve and it makes it all happen,i might chunk the sub eq I built and just roll off @ 250 and ultra curve the rest,the peavey 18' it's built very strong and you can get the basket if you can blow it up,I pumped 2000 rms watts into it and it still kicking,lol I looked at the 21" from parts express,but alot of people where not hot on the specs or quality,some people are building multiple boxes ,It's wide open you choose ,Let us know and have fun at it !!!!!
Find a good driver and match the box to it then it will make you happy!!!!!!!
Happy listening!
Cheers!
Max:
I posted my friend's experience with TC Sounds drivers a few pages back on this thread. The particular one that he used is no longer available but the replacement driver (Pro 5100) seems to be at least as capable:
TC Sounds Pro 5100 18" Neo Subwoofer Driver
The only gripe I have is that the FS about 3 Hz higher than the older model. I would give this driver some serious consideration. Perhaps model it in SW with your existing enclosure and see what you think?
Thankfully, my 2245H is still working fine as I have not managed to find the mechanical limits at low frequencies to be a problem [lately].
-Stu
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.