I couldn't agree more. As long as the value of the capacitor, including the temperature range and internal impedance meets the specifications, don't waste your money with over priced rip-off components!
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I started reading the "HHHF" site linked above and had to stop because it gave me headache.
As in that "capacitors need burn-in to achieve their real sound"?
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Tell me that about wine/cheese/whisky/chili/etc. and I'll believe you.
Those are organic products, with *live* organisms doing their stuff inside along the way, chemical reactions in process modifying the food, etc. ..... but on plastic + metal capacitors?
I doubt they'll change 5% their rated value or properties in, say, 10 years.
As in that "capacitors need burn-in to achieve their real sound"?
Written as:
C'mon, gimme a break !!!
Tell me that about wine/cheese/whisky/chili/etc. and I'll believe you.
Those are organic products, with *live* organisms doing their stuff inside along the way, chemical reactions in process modifying the food, etc. ..... but on plastic + metal capacitors?
I doubt they'll change 5% their rated value or properties in, say, 10 years.
JM.
Very correct these are not electrolytic capacitors we are talking about here. I would like to know what the failure mode of a film caps even is. Do they actually fail unless the lead breaks or the voltage is much to high and damages the film?
Very correct these are not electrolytic capacitors we are talking about here. I would like to know what the failure mode of a film caps even is. Do they actually fail unless the lead breaks or the voltage is much to high and damages the film?
Strangely, Doug Self did find some very tiny burn-in effects in some capacitors. Difficult to measure, and definitely of no consequence for audio.
DF,
I would conjecture that the films may have very small irregularities in the film such as microscopic holes in the film. I think the film itself is made by a casting process and this could allow pin holes to form. I would think this would cause a slight localized leak between layers of the film and this may be what is normalizing in the caps over time.
I would conjecture that the films may have very small irregularities in the film such as microscopic holes in the film. I think the film itself is made by a casting process and this could allow pin holes to form. I would think this would cause a slight localized leak between layers of the film and this may be what is normalizing in the caps over time.
Actually, these effects were only seen in PET caps. My guess is moisture effects since PET is much more hygroscopic than PP or PS, and water has outsize dielectric effects.
Name it. I will bet my next paycheck that if you randomly select a 10 year old Wima or Panasonic PP cap out of my parts stash that it will be right in spec for capacitance, ESR, ESL, tan delta, you name it. I would not make the same bet for a paper-in-oil or an "audiophile" cap.
You don't think any of those properties (or distortion) change with "burn in" in film caps?
I remember seeing some tests years ago of film caps in power supplies that did show change. Gonna be hard to dig that one up, tho.
I remember seeing some tests years ago of film caps in power supplies that did show change. Gonna be hard to dig that one up, tho.
Pano,
My question in a power supply would be what the voltage rating of the caps would be used in those positions. A high voltage film caps is going to be large for one thing and expensive if you are using high values, so where these just misapplied capacitors used in a poor application?
My question in a power supply would be what the voltage rating of the caps would be used in those positions. A high voltage film caps is going to be large for one thing and expensive if you are using high values, so where these just misapplied capacitors used in a poor application?
Errr.... It's reaching back a few years, but what I remember was seeing measurements that showed different noise spectra after the caps had been in service for some time. IIRC, it was significant. But don't put too much stock in that without seeing the study.
Funny: today I saw on this forum a thread that's going on now about mundorf silver in oil caps. The tone was quite different from the postings above. I wonder did my questions scare the posters on the other thread, or the negative reactions above? I was willing to give it a chance to have it explained. Appearently there are no posters yet that experienced sonic benefits from these capacatitors that are willing to go against the grain and explain under which conditions a difference was made.
dre,
Notice the word oil there. These are not the film caps we are talking about here. I don't know why people want to do that in a passive crossover, just more money for nothing.
Notice the word oil there. These are not the film caps we are talking about here. I don't know why people want to do that in a passive crossover, just more money for nothing.
Dr Dre,
if someone goes to the Zoo, there's a whole variety of eaters and drinkers there.
But one side of the fence knows best what a banana tastes like, the other side is where to ask directions to the men's room.
if someone goes to the Zoo, there's a whole variety of eaters and drinkers there.
But one side of the fence knows best what a banana tastes like, the other side is where to ask directions to the men's room.
I'm open to banana oil.
(lord knows I've tried everything else, from Wonder oil to Bamboo fibres and shell casings)
(lord knows I've tried everything else, from Wonder oil to Bamboo fibres and shell casings)
Dre,
standard good quality caps (usually high temp range -10 to +85) from standard electronic suppliers (Digikey RS etc) are used every day in all our electronics, but also in automotive, which is almost if not more safety concious about how well the ever increasing electronics that controll are car will perform and perform over time. Since the Toyota incedents in the USA (NASA produced a 750 page document on the issue!) reliability and the concern for reliability almost outdoes space grade elctronics, why? because the fear of multi million law suits focuses the design. So if they are good enough for all the other markets they should be good enough for a crossover.
It also vibrates in cars🙂
standard good quality caps (usually high temp range -10 to +85) from standard electronic suppliers (Digikey RS etc) are used every day in all our electronics, but also in automotive, which is almost if not more safety concious about how well the ever increasing electronics that controll are car will perform and perform over time. Since the Toyota incedents in the USA (NASA produced a 750 page document on the issue!) reliability and the concern for reliability almost outdoes space grade elctronics, why? because the fear of multi million law suits focuses the design. So if they are good enough for all the other markets they should be good enough for a crossover.
It also vibrates in cars🙂
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