The Mortite pipe wrap has some advantages in molding it to round edges too. You'll see them soon enough. I think it helps with some of the issues. The big flat surfaces facing the cone I can't do anything with.
some guys have gone so far as to apply self adhesive craft felt to the inside of the basket legs, but on smaller drivers that can be very tricky to achieve without impeding the operation of suspension, particularly on drivers with reverse outer suspension such as the earlier FE series.
This product is very good and really does work on small gas engine repairs (top 8265)
The third one down, 8267 might be good for drivers.
J-B Weld Company - Products Overview
The third one down, 8267 might be good for drivers.
J-B Weld Company - Products Overview
The Fountek are 3". I bought a case to see if they would sub for the discontinued FF85k. Then the FF85wk came along. FR88 does have more bass capability but looses out everywhere else. I know the FF125wks faults may have left a bad taste, but, except for minimal bass, these are the standouts (head & shoulders) in the line.
Comment: ones from Owen are FR88 in Scott's ML-TL/BR Hybrid, the "ones you sent" are uFonkenSET (my personal pair). One could say this is almost blind since he knows nothing except listening to music.
dave
Has this thread ever gone to some strange places!
I'm a naysayer on loading a driver frame. I have never been able to hear the difference, nor have I detected anything in an FR plot. YMMV.
I just did this to convince myself -- again: Take a stamped frame driver -- I took an FE166En -- hold it up by the magnet and strike the rim of the frame with a screwdriver. "Ring, ring." Now place the driver face down on your workbench and press firmly. Strike the frame. "Tick,tick."
A driver frame cannot ring in bell mode with the rim constrained. Period. Any ringing of the frame legs in flex mode are going to be weak and very high in frequency. This, i presume, is what the P10 holey brace is designed to reduce by reducing the ability of the frame legs to flex.
Now, before you tell me I am full of it, have you run a DBX test, or do you just know that the driver sounded better after treatment?
Bob
I'm a naysayer on loading a driver frame. I have never been able to hear the difference, nor have I detected anything in an FR plot. YMMV.
I just did this to convince myself -- again: Take a stamped frame driver -- I took an FE166En -- hold it up by the magnet and strike the rim of the frame with a screwdriver. "Ring, ring." Now place the driver face down on your workbench and press firmly. Strike the frame. "Tick,tick."
A driver frame cannot ring in bell mode with the rim constrained. Period. Any ringing of the frame legs in flex mode are going to be weak and very high in frequency. This, i presume, is what the P10 holey brace is designed to reduce by reducing the ability of the frame legs to flex.
Now, before you tell me I am full of it, have you run a DBX test, or do you just know that the driver sounded better after treatment?
Bob
Bob,
The Rockfordfogate subwoofers, e.g. 8" P2 use a heavy rubber ring over the magnet, to the frame. I do like these car subwoofers, they do have a solid, deep tone.
Point is, why would they bother if there is no benefit?
The Rockfordfogate subwoofers, e.g. 8" P2 use a heavy rubber ring over the magnet, to the frame. I do like these car subwoofers, they do have a solid, deep tone.
Point is, why would they bother if there is no benefit?
I don't know. It may have benefit. It may be cosmetic. It looks quality. There is only one way to know and I'll bet you are not willing to go there.
Just so you know that I know, placebo effect works both ways: It you expect to hear an improvement, you will. If you don't, you won't.
Bob
This is not the purpose of the holey brace.
A typical FR will show no difference as it is measuring something different. Now if someone could generate a signal 40ish dB down in the presence of the 0 dB signal and then extract that from what comes out the speaker then we would have a measure that would start revealing stuff.
dave
Dave,
The Fountek 88's are 2 1/4 to the center of the surround. I'd call them 2 rather than 3. Of course, for advertising, they are at least 3 1/2! Just looking for PC speakers, bings and bongs or an occasional U-tube lecture on Hadoop that is not so distorted it makes me cringe. The old Tandburgs on my desk take up too much space. I may use highly alternative materials.
Bob, yup threads do weave around a bit. Fun that way. I would have to compare sonics of the puddied frame to raw, but it measures smoother through the mids. I have not gotten around to paying the fine folks at ARTA yet so I did not save any of the traces. (Looks like I will keep ARTA as part of my kit, so I should send them something. Edge too.) I am not sure it is ringing modes, but more how many sharp edged in close proximity of the cone. Reflections and refractions. I don't see any reason why some better design work could not make a stamped basket just as good as any other. Perhaps the old standby of irregular saw-tooth pattern. I think we would be in the realm of some serious super computer modeling. With a big enough endowment to, oh say Berkley, I bet one could get a bunch of physics students and access to one of their clusters. $10M maybe? Then one could design a better 49 cent basket.
I have yet to hear the magic of a full range. I think back many years to when I first heard the original Quads. Not much on either end, but the mids were sweet as can be. They were driven by Conrad Johnson. So I am open to the idea and that I have not herd a decent one. There are none in the retail market, at least around here. So far I can do a lot better with a multi-way. Every experiment teaches me something.
I wonder why there aren't more coaxials? With the new magnets, it would look easier than ever to put a good tweeter in a 7 inch cone. Mechanically, it looks not too hard. Acoustically, I guess there are problems. I have a set of Kef Q1's. Not exemplary of a high end speaker, but not bad for $100 off e-bay. The packaging is good. The cone sounds like any old poly and the tweet is sad. Before I dump them, I should do a better crossover and see how big a difference that makes. They have electrolytics and the coils look like they were wound from spare voice coil wire from tweeters. In theory, a coaxial with an LR2 should be very smooth through the crossover region. I believe that is the goal of the full range, to not have abrupt inconsistencies through the critical high sensitive range? That is my basis for wanting one that remains well behaved high enough to cross over at 5K. The Fountek may pull that off on the top end. I do dread the idea of getting a three way 7 Inch in a half foot box crossover right. I am just now getting a two way sweet. If the FF88's pass the wife's critical hearing test, then I might give it a try.
The Fountek 88's are 2 1/4 to the center of the surround. I'd call them 2 rather than 3. Of course, for advertising, they are at least 3 1/2! Just looking for PC speakers, bings and bongs or an occasional U-tube lecture on Hadoop that is not so distorted it makes me cringe. The old Tandburgs on my desk take up too much space. I may use highly alternative materials.
Bob, yup threads do weave around a bit. Fun that way. I would have to compare sonics of the puddied frame to raw, but it measures smoother through the mids. I have not gotten around to paying the fine folks at ARTA yet so I did not save any of the traces. (Looks like I will keep ARTA as part of my kit, so I should send them something. Edge too.) I am not sure it is ringing modes, but more how many sharp edged in close proximity of the cone. Reflections and refractions. I don't see any reason why some better design work could not make a stamped basket just as good as any other. Perhaps the old standby of irregular saw-tooth pattern. I think we would be in the realm of some serious super computer modeling. With a big enough endowment to, oh say Berkley, I bet one could get a bunch of physics students and access to one of their clusters. $10M maybe? Then one could design a better 49 cent basket.
I have yet to hear the magic of a full range. I think back many years to when I first heard the original Quads. Not much on either end, but the mids were sweet as can be. They were driven by Conrad Johnson. So I am open to the idea and that I have not herd a decent one. There are none in the retail market, at least around here. So far I can do a lot better with a multi-way. Every experiment teaches me something.
I wonder why there aren't more coaxials? With the new magnets, it would look easier than ever to put a good tweeter in a 7 inch cone. Mechanically, it looks not too hard. Acoustically, I guess there are problems. I have a set of Kef Q1's. Not exemplary of a high end speaker, but not bad for $100 off e-bay. The packaging is good. The cone sounds like any old poly and the tweet is sad. Before I dump them, I should do a better crossover and see how big a difference that makes. They have electrolytics and the coils look like they were wound from spare voice coil wire from tweeters. In theory, a coaxial with an LR2 should be very smooth through the crossover region. I believe that is the goal of the full range, to not have abrupt inconsistencies through the critical high sensitive range? That is my basis for wanting one that remains well behaved high enough to cross over at 5K. The Fountek may pull that off on the top end. I do dread the idea of getting a three way 7 Inch in a half foot box crossover right. I am just now getting a two way sweet. If the FF88's pass the wife's critical hearing test, then I might give it a try.
Here is a pic of the basket of the P2 8" woofer; looks like they sprayed something on the frame also.
As mentioned, these sound better than most, very accurate sound; far from a thumping trunk noise. They had a P3 cast basket, I think these are better.
The price was way down on them for a while, scooped a bunch of them up.
As mentioned, these sound better than most, very accurate sound; far from a thumping trunk noise. They had a P3 cast basket, I think these are better.
The price was way down on them for a while, scooped a bunch of them up.
Attachments
By convention the bezel size determines the nominal sixe of the driver. If a driver has an unusual bezel (such as the Mark Audio) the nominal size is worked backwards from the cone size (ie CHP70 = 4 "m despite ~70mm cone).
A 2" driver will have a cone on the order of 35mm.
dave
I guess that is for marketing standards. I go by the effective diameter, as that is what matters when you try and figure out how much air they can push.
It is the standard. When discussing driver size (chassis as the Germans say) if you use a non-standard scheme without being very specific you will be misunderstood,
dave
Er, yea, which is why it is relevant, as opposed to the dimension where the edge of the surround is glued to the frame. So, the FF88's are 60mm. Put them in a box I had sitting there as a quick test. They hold some promise. For this use, it looks like a single driver will work. Don't need to double them up.
It usually works the opposite way for me.
If I expect it to hear an improvement then I often don't because I am being too critical, and if I don't expect to hear an improvement then sometimes I do because I wasn't expecting it.
TVR, keep right on rolling with these...... I used the 2.5 coil I had on hand; which helped the bass, but thinking it is interfering with the high end. Not all the time, just on a few songs (modulation is the best word to describe).
Notch filter, hummmm can you provide a sketch?
btw, Pic of new build:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/217121-please-recommend-desktop-fullranger-4.html
Notch filter, hummmm can you provide a sketch?
btw, Pic of new build:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/217121-please-recommend-desktop-fullranger-4.html
That's a strange symptom. Anyone have thoughts?
A notch filter is a coil, cap and resistor in parallel with each other, all put in series with the driver after the BSC. Values are approximate as unfortunately with driver variables, you have to tune them by measurement in-place.
A notch filter is a coil, cap and resistor in parallel with each other, all put in series with the driver after the BSC. Values are approximate as unfortunately with driver variables, you have to tune them by measurement in-place.
Yes. That inductor could be contributing noise. In addition to your resistor, also add a small polyester cap parallel with the inductor (the cap doesn't have to be large enough to pass audio), and that may be enough to damp that inductor.
P.S.
Also adding an RC (capacitor series to a resistor) parallel with the inductor would allow one to dial in a slight treble boost if desired.
P.S.
Also adding an RC (capacitor series to a resistor) parallel with the inductor would allow one to dial in a slight treble boost if desired.
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