Apologies.
Math 101- charts should have labels. I hope to update them later. In the meantime, here's a great little primer:
https://www.spinorama.org/help.html
Math 101- charts should have labels. I hope to update them later. In the meantime, here's a great little primer:
https://www.spinorama.org/help.html
According Dibirama third party measurements, the 83000 (standalone magnet) should be quieter (THD) in the low end than the 833000 (double magnet). Also cleaner there.
@tktran303 : do you have not a little bump due to the room or the mic around 5 k hz ? I seem to see a patern there with the two different drivers measured ?
@duvixan : too much energy in the 5k to 8k can make some brigthness according the final power response of the loudspeaker (the curve into the room), hifi gears you have, personal taste, hence my question to tktran. For instance if you had a too much straigth spl curve with a bump there of 1dB or more, some may notice a fatiguing sound while others according what is said above, the damping of the room, its size, etc...
@tktran303 : do you have not a little bump due to the room or the mic around 5 k hz ? I seem to see a patern there with the two different drivers measured ?
@duvixan : too much energy in the 5k to 8k can make some brigthness according the final power response of the loudspeaker (the curve into the room), hifi gears you have, personal taste, hence my question to tktran. For instance if you had a too much straigth spl curve with a bump there of 1dB or more, some may notice a fatiguing sound while others according what is said above, the damping of the room, its size, etc...
The SB26ADC/CDC can be crossed pretty low, but if the OP is set on the SB29SDAC, I've been working with it lately. Research is still ongoing so I haven't uploaded anything to my website. But here is one I really like, .stl attached.
wolf_teeth, it's with the 29SDAC in this brandon WG (teaser)
As a beginner I see the same patern than with the sb26STAC, that bump before 20k I dunno how people do to eq this passive ! This bump being later with the 26 ADC/CAC (cdc) makes me think it is the one I would choose. But just you guys than listen them all knew for the sound in real life.
As a beginner I see the same patern than with the sb26STAC, that bump before 20k I dunno how people do to eq this passive ! This bump being later with the 26 ADC/CAC (cdc) makes me think it is the one I would choose. But just you guys than listen them all knew for the sound in real life.
I don't think you're supposed to eq the last octave or that it's audible.
It just adds a little bit of extra sparkle at the very top, not a real issue.
It just adds a little bit of extra sparkle at the very top, not a real issue.
I do think the 10K to 15K to be important enough to take care. I don't mind the half last octave though. But the big break-ups of some metal cones at the end can be heard back if too much high in spl and near the 20K to 25k hz.
One of my favorite high end soft domes is the Morel ST1048. Its expensive but goes low with its extra xmax.
The next step from that is the TSCT1044/1104. It has a Ti former and lots of copper in the gap. Probably the best sounding small soft dome IMO.
Obviously there's the CAT378 too. One of my favorite soft domes under 100 bucks. The non horn loaded CAT308 is basically the same thing w/o WG.
There's the Audax TW034 too as a larger soft dome. With some xover trickery it can play higher up and goes fairly low.
If you're not having to have a soft dome, there is the Audax TW025A28 Ti dome. Its my favorite metal dome. Very accurate and resolving. Sounds like an AMT up top without the typical extra 3rd order THD on the bottom.
On a budget,, the Seas 22TAF/G is a nice smaller higher efficiency metal dome that plays very low for its size. This one is very accurate and non-fatiguing when pushed harder. Its my go to tweeter for a smaller metal dome and sounds like a planar driver. I did a blind listening test with the Seas, tricking people into thinking they were listening to ribbon tweeters (large 3 way with Seas 22TAF/G, Scan speak D7608 3" mid domes and 2x Peerless NE180W LF). The look on people's faces was priceless.
The next step from that is the TSCT1044/1104. It has a Ti former and lots of copper in the gap. Probably the best sounding small soft dome IMO.
Obviously there's the CAT378 too. One of my favorite soft domes under 100 bucks. The non horn loaded CAT308 is basically the same thing w/o WG.
There's the Audax TW034 too as a larger soft dome. With some xover trickery it can play higher up and goes fairly low.
If you're not having to have a soft dome, there is the Audax TW025A28 Ti dome. Its my favorite metal dome. Very accurate and resolving. Sounds like an AMT up top without the typical extra 3rd order THD on the bottom.
On a budget,, the Seas 22TAF/G is a nice smaller higher efficiency metal dome that plays very low for its size. This one is very accurate and non-fatiguing when pushed harder. Its my go to tweeter for a smaller metal dome and sounds like a planar driver. I did a blind listening test with the Seas, tricking people into thinking they were listening to ribbon tweeters (large 3 way with Seas 22TAF/G, Scan speak D7608 3" mid domes and 2x Peerless NE180W LF). The look on people's faces was priceless.
The cat 378 has not said its last word for my future MTM, but the measurement of hificompass and dibirama braked me a little for such low cut-off, although the WG helps.
I wonder too about the A28 because Fs is almost 1100 hz and measurements are inconsistant from a source to another : see dibirama, but also the measurement made by thlhp in the datasheet : both curves are really not the same on axis.
22TAF on a WG ? Cause here too Fs is quite high for such 2k or op 1.8k hz target ?
I wonder about the D2604/83000 (not the 83300) but on a WG... see heissman-acoustic, that driver should have details according some but I wonder too about the too much dispersion of the high end...
If I knew I would have bougth a DA32TX... ahaha !
I wonder too about the A28 because Fs is almost 1100 hz and measurements are inconsistant from a source to another : see dibirama, but also the measurement made by thlhp in the datasheet : both curves are really not the same on axis.
22TAF on a WG ? Cause here too Fs is quite high for such 2k or op 1.8k hz target ?
I wonder about the D2604/83000 (not the 83300) but on a WG... see heissman-acoustic, that driver should have details according some but I wonder too about the too much dispersion of the high end...
If I knew I would have bougth a DA32TX... ahaha !
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@diyiggy - The issue of metal dome breakup is easily dealt with using HF notch. For example, I do a staggered series notch to get 15dB of drop at 25k with the Audax TW025A28. Even pushed really hard, the resonance doesn't come through and the tweeter sounds so neutral and effortless at all levels. Most people don't think it makes a difference to use an HF notch on a metal or hard dome, but it does decrease THD all over the spectrum. I used to dislike metal domes due to the HF breakup mode, but with a carefully implemented notch it transforms the tweeter into a delicate sounding, planar like driver. If you want something softer sounding, you have to use a soft dome
Also, the TW034 will easily go down to 1.5k in a WG. If you're adventurous enough to drill the pole pieces and stack an extra magnet on them, you end up with a 95 dB/2.83V efficiency driver that gets very close to the Seas T35C002, but at 1/3 the cost.
I have T35C002s in WGs in MTM with NE180Ws crossed at 1.6k 3rd order. They integrate well and go up relatively high despite being a large dome, even off axis. The whole thing does 91dB/2.83V and 110dB with the help of subs crossed at 100 hz, but are still very resolving, detailed and revealing at lower levels.
Its a shame Peerless isn't selling small quantities of their DA32TX corundum domes anymore. They sound so nice crossed lower and with extra magnet can hang with an 8" LF driver for a nice large 2 way. Peerless needs to get their act together and start selling some of their great drivers to us again. I was lucky enough to have bought extra drivers back when they still were sold, but now they become spares in case of failures instead of new projects.
I have T35C002s in WGs in MTM with NE180Ws crossed at 1.6k 3rd order. They integrate well and go up relatively high despite being a large dome, even off axis. The whole thing does 91dB/2.83V and 110dB with the help of subs crossed at 100 hz, but are still very resolving, detailed and revealing at lower levels.
Its a shame Peerless isn't selling small quantities of their DA32TX corundum domes anymore. They sound so nice crossed lower and with extra magnet can hang with an 8" LF driver for a nice large 2 way. Peerless needs to get their act together and start selling some of their great drivers to us again. I was lucky enough to have bought extra drivers back when they still were sold, but now they become spares in case of failures instead of new projects.
"series notch to get 15dB of drop at 25k with the Audax TW025A28"
What values are you using, please?
What values are you using, please?
Give me a little while to retrieve my notes. The values were very small, so insertion loss was minimal.
The extra magnet bumped efficiency by 1 dB which indicated the VC gap wasn't that saturated. The DA32TX also benefits from an extra magnet, but not as much as the TW034. I'll post measurments of the difference when I can.
The DA32TX and TW034 are the same 132mm faceplate diameter and interchangeable, but the bolt pattern diameter is 116mm on the DA32TX and 120mm on the TW034, so you need to rotate and drill new holes.
The two sound very similar in the mids but the TW034 has a more lively top end, likely due to partial breakup. Its not a noticeably bad thing but the DA32TX is more accurate higher up and therfore can come across as boring. I like both of them for different reasons.
For acoustic music and jazz I prefer the Audax. For louder listening I like the Peerless more as it has a cleaner presentation, especially with percussion and electronic instruments. Pop and rock sound really good with it and it can play louder overall without any strain. The Audax tends to get a bit fuzzy when it's pushed hard. Mind you I'm talking about 105+ dB level which is asking alot from a 2 way with low crossover point.
The DA32TX and TW034 are the same 132mm faceplate diameter and interchangeable, but the bolt pattern diameter is 116mm on the DA32TX and 120mm on the TW034, so you need to rotate and drill new holes.
The two sound very similar in the mids but the TW034 has a more lively top end, likely due to partial breakup. Its not a noticeably bad thing but the DA32TX is more accurate higher up and therfore can come across as boring. I like both of them for different reasons.
For acoustic music and jazz I prefer the Audax. For louder listening I like the Peerless more as it has a cleaner presentation, especially with percussion and electronic instruments. Pop and rock sound really good with it and it can play louder overall without any strain. The Audax tends to get a bit fuzzy when it's pushed hard. Mind you I'm talking about 105+ dB level which is asking alot from a 2 way with low crossover point.