Drum Boogie (Live) Arne Domnerus - Live is Life (Live)
I promised myself that I would never post UT links but here I go... at least one can now know which exact recording I refer to - look it up in your favourite high quality streaming service - i.e. not UT and not Spit-ify ;-)
Cymbals are loverly here - deep, shimmering, life like for sure - my goto recording for cymbals and drums... the music isn't bad either... 😉 the whole recording is a marvel.
If I recall correctly, Didrik DeGeer mics was used in this one...
//
Last edited:
STM m28 (12), b112 (6), NEXO, midas consoles, Gallileo systems, meyer milo 4 ways arrays
etc
etc
With P.A. a lot depends also on the operators, and there it goes wrong very often, even with the best systems. Meyer is a big name in that world and considered one of the best. But if you don't know how to tune it (and that is complex) it will sound very bad, especially with array systems.
I know places where an D&B line array system sound wonderfull one time, and absolut s*** the other, same space, same system, other engineer behind it. If you only heared the bad version you will think that D&B is crap, while it's the most rated line array system (in general) in the pro audio world, and in right hands, it can sound as good as most hifi. But getting it there is an art on it's own.
And that is the case for all the big systems of today, the brand (if it's half decent one) is not that important, it's the skill of the eingeer(s) operating it that makes the biggest difference in sound quality on concerts (and also the acoustics of the space off course). It's a skill i don't have (i worked mainly with point source systems for dj's in the past) and it takes time to learn.
I know places where an D&B line array system sound wonderfull one time, and absolut s*** the other, same space, same system, other engineer behind it. If you only heared the bad version you will think that D&B is crap, while it's the most rated line array system (in general) in the pro audio world, and in right hands, it can sound as good as most hifi. But getting it there is an art on it's own.
And that is the case for all the big systems of today, the brand (if it's half decent one) is not that important, it's the skill of the eingeer(s) operating it that makes the biggest difference in sound quality on concerts (and also the acoustics of the space off course). It's a skill i don't have (i worked mainly with point source systems for dj's in the past) and it takes time to learn.
Superb!!! Thanks for sharing!
This how a record should sound - Natural and fully dynamic.
You can hear all the cymbals, hi-hats, snare drum etc.
Even in YT limited quality digital compressed format it sounds amazing.
Look a the wave format and the super low RMS level meaning a lot of peaks above the average.
I nomalized the highest peak to be 0dB.
When the producer wants to do it corretly he/she can make it!
Very true. Very true.
Yeah, most of the major brands have a great product. Many venues sound awful because the rooms are just too terrible too tame, but the line arrays help. The other obstacle is the politics of it. The system engineers often have about an hour to tune an entire PA system for an arena or a stadium. I know people who can't get their hifi systems tuned in an hour. Can you imagine making sure a 20 box deep line array is all working properly then take a variety of measurements to time align it and tune it? It's amazing that they ever sound good but the engineers are often very capable. Another layer to this is that many shows happen on a PA system that just came out of the shop with little or no prep time (due to budget constraints) and now the operator has to get it all working and tuned in a day. When there are other delays (like getting rigging points or proper labor to unload a truck) you can have little to no time to make it happen. So then people come to a show and it might not sound good in every seat because there's just no time to make it all happen properly. It's unfortunate but common.
Another factor is the band. Have they rehearsed? Does their gear sound good? This goes back to the original post about cymbals sounding good. They won't if the drummer doesn't know what they're doing and the cymbal is sh*t gear. Does the engineer have time to get the microphones in the right place? Did the drum tech tune the drums correctly? Is the guitar in tune? There are so many factors to the live show. But when it all comes together, the magic is something that cannot be recreated in your living room.
I disagree because they use pure sine wave to test. When my age around 26, I took medical test that state I can hear 19 kHz frequency. I am much older now but I can still hear frequency from cheap switching regulator if close enough to my ears (may be 15 kHz to 20 kHz). You can use other pure sine wave, example square ware or other. If you can hear the different of 10 kHz sine wave and square wave, it mean you may hear the low frequency of IMD product or harmonic 20 kHz, 30 kHz, etc.
If you don't believe the science, then prove it wrong with better science. Because this is all scienc at the end. With subjetive and cult like theories you will never find what you want to change.
And no they don't test only with sin waves, they also use standardised noise signal (white noise, pink noise, ...) to meausre. There is decades, even centuries of scientific research behand all that. It's not carved in stone, but science is true until proven scientific otherwise. That is one of the basic things about science and engineering. And audio is science and engineering, not magic.
And no they don't test only with sin waves, they also use standardised noise signal (white noise, pink noise, ...) to meausre. There is decades, even centuries of scientific research behand all that. It's not carved in stone, but science is true until proven scientific otherwise. That is one of the basic things about science and engineering. And audio is science and engineering, not magic.
This can be done, but isn't because the reproduction systems of the majority of the listeners is not fit for that. You need 20dB or more of hedroom, so you would need a speaer system with a clean peak volume of about 125dB to get to the standards of max volume of hifi (105) to have an undistorted signal. That means big speakers, bigger than most want in their house.
Most music before the loudness war had peaks to about 10dB, now everything is foten within 3dB or even lower. But music, since it was recorded has always been compressed, dut to tape compression or with dedicated devices. Othewise it does not fit the old media (vinyl) that has a limited dynamic range (70dB if you're lucky).
With digital that should not be an issue, but everybody (except the classic music world) wwants to sound loud, and use excessive limiting to get there. I don't like that neighter, i would love to go back to the pre-loudness levels, but not to totally uncompressed sounds. It does not work in a lot of music styles and it does not work on modern hifi systems.
Wow am i the only diyer whos got a real stereo which plays music the same as the real thing.you guys are missing out.
The problem is not always with disbelief in the science. Sometimes there is a problem where people claiming to know the science confuse threshold numbers with hard limits. It should always be kept in mind that threshold numbers are estimates of an average value for a population (think of the center of a bell curve, not the tails).
Thus without testing a particular person, it would be incorrect to say, "you can't hear less than 3dB level change."
The correct statement would be, "an average person could not hear less than a 3dB level change," "However, 50% of the population is expected to be able to hear less than the average value."
Listening skills can be trained https://seanolive.blogspot.com/2009/05/
But this is a dangerous path, isn't the pleasure of the music itself more important? Every voice, instrument, hall, studiotech, loudspeaker etc. will sound different anyway...
https://seanolive.blogspot.com/2009/10/audios-circle-of-confusion.html
Domnerus Live - Drum Boogie https://tidal.com/browse/album/199492564?u
But this is a dangerous path, isn't the pleasure of the music itself more important? Every voice, instrument, hall, studiotech, loudspeaker etc. will sound different anyway...
https://seanolive.blogspot.com/2009/10/audios-circle-of-confusion.html
Domnerus Live - Drum Boogie https://tidal.com/browse/album/199492564?u
I'm not michel but i have a pair of braun L8080HE and given decent recording even cymbals sounds quite decent.
The quality of cymbals sound depends on the source and the speakers. Well mastered analog source always get the sound of cymbals right. It is very difficult for digital to match it. The problem however is that the majority of recordings, especially rock are mastered quite purely and the sound of cymbals is highly recessed.
Speakers also make a difference. I've got Spendor D7 and cymbals sound phenomenal. On my Revel Be 228 cymbals sound like if I turn on Dolby noise suppression on a tape desk and filtered out most of sparkle in cymbal sound. The only explanation that I have is that revel generates sound with much wider dispersion than Spendor. While there is school of thought that wider dispersion = better sound, Sanders, founder of Martin Logan who invented curved panel with wide -dispersed sound claims that the speaker with narrow dispersion sound better.
Speakers also make a difference. I've got Spendor D7 and cymbals sound phenomenal. On my Revel Be 228 cymbals sound like if I turn on Dolby noise suppression on a tape desk and filtered out most of sparkle in cymbal sound. The only explanation that I have is that revel generates sound with much wider dispersion than Spendor. While there is school of thought that wider dispersion = better sound, Sanders, founder of Martin Logan who invented curved panel with wide -dispersed sound claims that the speaker with narrow dispersion sound better.