Visaton NoBox...is this for real!?!?

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#21
ra7 said:
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I modeled the speaker, standing on a floor. With a measuring point at 1 M on axis with the LF driver, max SPL at 40 Hz is about 93 dB. This is excursion limited. No amount of EQ will improve this. Real room bass performance will not be significantly better, because it is a dipole designed to be placed away from the walls.

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In summary, this speaker should be OK for music with moderate loudness requirements and low to moderate bass levels. Symphony orchestra (1812 Overture maybe excepted), piano, chamber music etc.
 
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#24
Rudolf said:
You are aware that you will need the passive components for the BGS 40 crossover to achieve the bass response as advertised?

Rudolf
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I'm not sure....how would the added Qts of the series inductor change the problem with excursion limitation? The HCA should have no problem driving this speaker to excursion. If the added Qts is really that big of a factor I could add a series inductor....comments?
 
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#25
jmillerdoc said:
I'm not sure....how would the added Qts of the series inductor change the problem with excursion limitation?
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The problem with the limited excursion can't be solved. You would have to live with it. But Visaton uses the falling slope of the BGS 40 impedance curve to raise the bass level around 70 Hz. Sort of EQ by crossover design. Look at the red curve in the attached diagram. You will not be able to do that trick with a simple active Xover.

I would like to add two general remarks:

If you look at the Visaton website and their offering of woofers, there is no other with an efficiency as high as the BGS 40 - at 60 Hz. It is simply the only choice they have for a passive system, when high efficiency is a major demand. There certainly are better OB woofers in the market place - but not from Visaton. The conclusion from that should be easy ... 😉

Can you tell me where this discussion about 105dB @40 Hz came from? Certainly the Nobox will do 105dB @40 Hz - in the nearfield, as stated by DO in the copy surrounding his measurement diagram. It is beyond me how your friend can question that.

Rudolf
 

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#27
Rudolf said:
Can you tell me where this discussion about 105dB @40 Hz came from? Certainly the Nobox will do 105dB @40 Hz - in the nearfield, as stated by DO in the copy surrounding his measurement diagram. It is beyond me how your friend can question that.
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Certainly the speaker will exceed 180 km/hr if thrown out of an aicraft at 30,000 feet. It may be true, but it is irrelevant to its job as a speaker. You may habitually sit with your ear a few centimetres from the speaker, but I suspect most people do not.
 
#28
Don Hills said:
Certainly the speaker will exceed 180 km/hr if thrown out of an aicraft at 30,000 feet. ....
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I don't question your simulations and findings at all. But somehow they led to this statement:
jmillerdoc said:
Anyway, his point to me was the Mr. Dirk Olsher measurements should be viewed with skepticism. Just because someone says it's true doesn't make it so. Do you personally know Dirk Olsher? Are you sure his measurements posted in the article haven't been exaggerated for reasons of profit or fame?

As many of you know in the world of HIFI audio there is quite a lot of Bull Sh$t claims out there for reasons of profit or fame.
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I don't see anything in Olshers measurements that would support such allegation. That's the reason why I was wondering.

Rudolf
 
#30
I also have a pair of Klipsch K-22 12" 8ohm
woofers sitting on the shelf. I was thinking of possibly adding these to the baffle too. I would connect them in parallel and was wondering if somebody could tell me how this would work....maybe model it? They have an SPL of 94, Fs 28, Xmax of about 6mm, Qts 0.45. I calculate an inductor of 2.5mH would give me a 1st order at 250hz on these in parallel. Thoughts? bad idea?
 
#32
I have built a pair of visaton no box loudspeakers and find it amusing all this chatter of no bass!The bottom end is maybe not as extended as one may expect from a 15 inch driver,but it is very fast and sounds flat to 40hz,with a slow rollof 6db to 32 hz.As far as spl,s go I drive them with a pair of pass a40 mono block amps,playing rock with the volume wound up a little can shake the whole building!Forget your friend,s theory of no bass i,m sure no bass comes out of his pc!Of more general interest I built them using 1 inch ply built the crossovers from scratch (the visaton crossover looked like rubbish,cheap coils,cheap caps)the freedom from box effects I am still amazed at!go for it life is to short!
 
#36
Srhombeus said:
Thanks for your answer.What do you think of treble performance of b200 ? And quality of its own crossover?
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I don't know, I've never heard one, All I know is that putting sides on an open baffle 90 degrees to the baffle will induce that boxy sound that I hate. High frequencys will not be near as bad sounding as the lower frequencys especially when you hit the frequency at which the baffle system resonates.

"The tonal balance was a bit recessed through the midrange and lacked sufficient air and sparkle in the treble. It would appear that the B-200 full range is struggling above 10kHz, and its performance over the uppermost octave is far from state-of-the art."

Considering all the crap in that crossover I don't doubt this statement at all. And a 10db drop between 100 and 600hz..... It's gonna sound recessed because of that.

Retail price: $423.98 per channel.... I bet my $50 fostex's on their $20 baffles and my $120.00 dayton 12" sub would give these things a good run for their money.
 
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#38
Start with just a cap on the HF and an inductor on the LF, I'm into minimalism when it comes to crossovers, but that's just because I can hear the difference as the signal is degraded by electronic components in the signal path. flat performance sounds just that, flat. I like my sound to be dynamic. wings on just the LF will do good. Wishing you luck on your adventure although once your bit you'll never be happy, you'll fiddle with them till the end of your life. enjoy. 🙂
 
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