I was sort of hoping for something revelatory, not news to me or most here. I've worked quite hard at optimizing RIAA and strain gauge pre-amp performance as both Bill and Scott can attest.
Based on my admittedly limited experience I doubt most vinyl playback systems (including table, arm, cartridge, and electronics) encountered extract close to all of the information embedded in those grooves, but I often debate whether the effort justifies the end result, neither dynamic range nor SNR of even very competent vinyl playback setups is anything to brag about, and distortion at some points had me ready to give up.
I have figured out if you arm yourself with scientifically sound information, figure out a strategy (usually by doing all the wrong things first and figuring out what not to do) you can get something that is audibly relatively indistinguishable from good digital, that's the great thing about human hearing, it basically sucks and is easily fooled.
If this really is all about the desire to promote a book, at those prices most of the skin flints here are not going to bite. I might if you share some compelling insights from your book here.
Based on my admittedly limited experience I doubt most vinyl playback systems (including table, arm, cartridge, and electronics) encountered extract close to all of the information embedded in those grooves, but I often debate whether the effort justifies the end result, neither dynamic range nor SNR of even very competent vinyl playback setups is anything to brag about, and distortion at some points had me ready to give up.
I have figured out if you arm yourself with scientifically sound information, figure out a strategy (usually by doing all the wrong things first and figuring out what not to do) you can get something that is audibly relatively indistinguishable from good digital, that's the great thing about human hearing, it basically sucks and is easily fooled.
If this really is all about the desire to promote a book, at those prices most of the skin flints here are not going to bite. I might if you share some compelling insights from your book here.
I think so, Scott. Then the pre-distortion on DynaGroove and other releases sounded distorted on systems equipped with elliptical or line contact styli. For the greater revenue, label execs sacrificed audiophiles and broadcasters for the masses. After much marketing fanfare, RCA quietly discontinued the process within a year or two.
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Kevin, every audio book I buy reveals something, but only you can decide whether the info "justifies the end result." I post "insights" online all the time. But forums can only accommodate the tip of the iceberg; beneath the surface are a lot of complex concepts, technical illustrations, and math.
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Channel separation is a technical limitation of grooved media, but the typical 20~25dB for a decent cartridge is not "meager" when it only takes about 15dB of level difference between channels to pan a sound completely to the speaker on that side [Theile].
Occasionally attending a live performance especially of acoustic music (classical orchestra, jazz, etc) provides a remembered reference for verisimilitude.
Obviously I though my topic was appropriate. And there's been too little attention to it for too long.
On p1 I tried to clarify the book is to get better sound from vinyl than you may be getting now. Certainly not that it is better than digital technically. But sorry if my choice of words came across as not humble; as I won't even use all I learned, I only want to share it. And maybe live to cover my publishing costs!
Sounds like you're doing a lot right. The re-release of Sgt Peppers is the quietest vinyl I've heard in a while. And vinyl can sound better than highly processed digital, with dynamics smashed to the ceiling. Worse is new vinyl mastered from that smashed CD! Footfalls, woofer cone pumping, and LF feedback can be solved by optimizing cantilever-tonearm resonance (a free method occupies a sub-chapter in the book).
Plenty of evidence that it was built into some cutting lathes not just Dynagroove. As I said yesterday you don't seem to have taken any interest in any one of several threads here with contributions from some very experienced and knowledgeable vinyl enthusiasts such as GrooveT and JP. This is a DIY site we generally give to each other for free.
If you really think an LM833 standard RIAA pre-amp is "audiophile" and all you need you might find some push back here.
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Beg pardon. First time I saw this word I thought you were talking macaroni.
Please do elaborate, I'm eager to learn.
Scott, you are selling yourself short. You've added a huge amount to the knowledge on here. And some very handy analysis tools.
“Macaroni” might be on the right track - “verisimilitude” is rooted in Latin, meaning simulating truth, aka highest fidelity for “you are there” recordings. 2-channel 60deg stereo can’t quite manage it because it only presents a flat pie shape in front, while natural hearing perceives a full sphere, including reflections from around, behind, up, and even down. Sitting in the 4th row of “Symphony Hall,” beyond the critical radius (typically 5m, 16ft), there is more energy arriving at your ears from off stage reflections than from direct sound from on stage. Each arrival’s delay and direction become integrated in a complex of tone color (timbre), the holy grail of high fidelity, and the remembered reference for which determines verisimilitude. An enveloping 1st approximation requires 5.1 surround (still 2D). Demonstrations of immersive full sphere 3D can be had by appointment at my lab\studio in Lehigh Valley PA (PM me) or the House of Music at the University of Parma IT.
If you are coming here with any anticipation of serious financial interest you must be very desperate.
Scott you need not be cynical regarding yours truly. Never desparate a day in my life, I have zero financial expectations, as I've already said about one day merely covering the cost of publishing the book. My 3D demonstrations are free of charge or any pitch, and are simply for audiophiles', audio professionals', and musicians' curiosity. 59yr a professional audio engineer with a BSEE (and prior RCA Institutes certificate), I'm a semi-retired studio and home theater consultant, recording conservator, and systems designer\integrator especially of cost-effective music capture & reproduction. I'm on DIY Audio to learn & share.
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Many\most "audiophile phono stages" might look cool, but lack essential controls for proper vinyl replay, let alone pre-RIAA shellac. No gain balance, to compensate for typical 2dB cartridge channel sensitivity differences, for best stereo soundstage and vertical artifact cancellation in mono. No selectable cartridge loading capacitance for smoothest, flattest frequency response with MM\Mi pickups. No proper summing for mono, etc. If your phono preamp lacks any of these (or for 78s selectable turnover & rollof), you cannot render the quality waiting in the groove. With these controls, a number of preamps based on cheap chips have audiophile if not professional level audio performance and needn't cost more than a used Holman Apt. Or more than the $30 maker project in my book. However these do lack evidence of conspicuous consumption.
I think the objection to the mentioned preamp is the bog-standard RIAA in the feedback loop circuit that might be found in dozens of datasheets. And perhaps a better opamp could be chosen.
I do have two inexpensive chip based phono preamps that allow some control. On has either 100 or 200 pF loading and a rumble filter, the other has selectable input impedance and gain settings per channel. Neither has mono summing or a setting for 78 EQ.
And that begs the question, of course. What controls do you need to get the best from your vinyl? I haven't owned any shellacs in many years, so have no need for that EQ. I do own a great number of mono LPs, so a mono sum would be handy. I do have a mono switch down stream.
I do have two inexpensive chip based phono preamps that allow some control. On has either 100 or 200 pF loading and a rumble filter, the other has selectable input impedance and gain settings per channel. Neither has mono summing or a setting for 78 EQ.
And that begs the question, of course. What controls do you need to get the best from your vinyl? I haven't owned any shellacs in many years, so have no need for that EQ. I do own a great number of mono LPs, so a mono sum would be handy. I do have a mono switch down stream.
PANO, nothing wrong with proper downstream mono summing (not just shorting channels) AFTER the signals have been balanced - see why in my prior post. Unbalanced signals will cancel only a portion of vertical artifacts. Also why merely shorting the cartridge outputs may not work. And most MM\MI pickups suffer poor frequency response (aka tone color) error if capacitance loading is not within ~20% of mfgr's specs, ranging from none to 675pF, so in addition to the cabling, "100 or 200pF" may not be fine enough.
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I think the fear of dynagroove is hype. I'm using an eliptical Shure M97HE Era IV, and the very best top octave Steinway reproduction I own is the dynagroove Peter Nero Young & Warm & Wonderful When I Fall in Love track. This is better than about 300 CD's, but none have solo top octave piano. I have a real Steinway console in the music room for calibration. My hearing goes to 14 khz as do my speakers.
As far as channel balance and mono summing, I do that down stream. I find 6' RCA cables from changer to disco mixer provides best sound, probably has something to do with cartridge capacitance loading. Disco mixer was extensively modified to improve OEM sound. Used mixer $15, parts $20.
If was 40 miles away would drop by studio for a "3D" demo but don't run an auto anymore. With eyes closed at the live symphony out of doors, I can locate left or right only a very few solo instruments; I certainly can't tell where the violins and violas are. So I view soundstage comments in reproduction also as so much hype. My 14'w 33' long 11' high music room has carpet, several instruments, record & book racks, urethane stuffed furniture to break up standing waves from the speakers on 5' stands at the narrow end. Peavey SP2-XT project highs down at the head.