Vacuum Tube SPICE Models

cogsncogs · 2022-08-04 2:06 am

gerrittube said:
How should I add THD measurements for several testpoint in a circuit with LTSpice ? Right now I can only simulate measuring voltages and (mili)amperes. The matching with my actual build is nearly perfect, so it’s time for some more advanced measurements.

Regards, Gerrit

Have you read the sticky located here---> Recommended highly.

b_force · 2022-08-04 6:26 am

Koonw said:

Try this 12A6 RCA model:

Code:

**** 12A6 ******************************************
* Created on 07/25/2022 13:58 using paint_kip.jar
* www.dmitrynizh.com/tubeparams_image.htm
* Plate Curves image file: 12a6.png
* Data source link: <plate curves URL>
*----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
.SUBCKT 12A6 P G2 G K ; LTSpice tetrode.asy pinout
* .SUBCKT 12A6 P G K G2 ; Koren Pentode Pspice pinout
+ PARAMS: MU=9.4 KG1=6979.25 KP=110.52 KVB=339.16 VCT=2.657 EX=1.541 KG2=28485.35 KNEE=17.92 KVC=1.801
+ KLAM=2E-6 KLAMG=6.204E-8 KNEE2=0.201 KNEX=0.05115  KNK=-0.04158 KNG=0.008585 KNPL=0.625 KNSL=22.22 KNPR=164.07 KNSR=73.58
+ CCG=9P CGP=0.3P CCP=9P VGOFF=-1.8 IGA=1.786 IGB=9.5 IGC=0.716 IGEX=0.24
* Vp_MAX=500 Ip_MAX=160 Vg_step=10 Vg_start=20 Vg_count=13
* X_MIN=82 Y_MIN=29 X_SIZE=760 Y_SIZE=607 FSZ_X=1296 FSZ_Y=736 XYGrid=true
* Rp=1400 Vg_ac=20 P_max=7.5 Vg_qui=-40 Vp_qui=300
* showLoadLine=n showIp=y isDHP=n isPP=n isAsymPP=n isUL=n showDissipLimit=y
* showIg1=y isInputSnapped=y addLocalNFB=n
* XYProjections=n harmonicPlot=y dissipPlot=n
* UL=0.43 EG2=250 gridLevel2=y addKink=y isTanhKnee=y advSigmoid=n
*----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RE1  7 0  1G    ; DUMMY SO NODE 7 HAS 2 CONNECTIONS
E1   7 0  VALUE=  ; E1 BREAKS UP LONG EQUATION FOR G1.
+{V(G2,K)/KP*LOG(1+EXP((1/MU+(VCT+V(G,K))/SQRT(KVB+V(G2,K)*V(G2,K)))*KP))}
RE2  6 0  1G    ; DUMMY SO NODE 6 HAS 2 CONNECTIONS
E2  6 0  VALUE={(PWR(V(7),EX)+PWRS(V(7),EX))} ; Kg1 times KIT current
RE21 21 0 1
E21  21 0 VALUE={V(6)/KG1*ATAN((V(P,K)+KNEX)/KNEE)*TANH(V(P,K)/KNEE2)} ; Ip with knee but no slope and no kink
RE22 22 0 1 ; E22: kink curr deviation for plate
E22  22 0 VALUE={V(21)*LIMIT(KNK-V(G,K)*KNG,0,0.3)*(-ATAN((V(P,K)-KNPL)/KNSL)+ATAN((V(P,K)-KNPR)/KNSR))}
G1   P  K  VALUE={V(21)*(1+KLAMG*V(P,K))+KLAM*V(P,K) + V(22)}
* Alexander Gurskii screen current, see audioXpress 2/2011, with slope and kink added
RE43 43 K 1G ; Dummy
E43  43 G2 VALUE={0} ; Dummy
G2   43 K  VALUE={V(6)/KG2*(KVC-ATAN((V(P,K)+KNEX)/KNEE)*TANH(V(P,K)/KNEE2))/(1+KLAMG*V(P,K))-V(22)}
RCP  P K  1G     ; FOR CONVERGENCE
C1   K G  {CCG}  ; CATHODE-GRID 1
C2   G P  {CGP}  ; GRID 1-PLATE
C3   K P  {CCP}  ; CATHODE-PLATE
RE23 G 0 1G
GG G K VALUE={(IGA+IGB/(IGC+V(P,K)))*(MU/KG1)*
+(PWR(V(G,K)-VGOFF,IGEX)+PWRS(V(G,K)-VGOFF,IGEX))}
.ENDS
*$

Unfortunately, I think the model contains an error somewhere?

It takes forever to simulate a transient response in LTSpice and in the end I get a bogus result.
DC analysis works fine, but AC doesn't

Koonw · 2022-08-04 8:58 am

You can try these options:
.option noopiter
.options GminSteps=0
.options SrcSteps=1000

b_force · 2022-08-04 5:43 pm

Koonw said:
You can try these options:
.option noopiter
.options GminSteps=0
.options SrcSteps=1000

Thanks, I had another look at it, and the model seems to be very picky when the signal is clipped even a little bit.

Koonw · 2022-08-04 6:47 pm

Here is revised12a6 RCA model as previous model draws too much grid1 current, hence VGOFF is adjusted to 0V from -1.8V and grid current scale readjusted. Attached shown is grid current drawn just slightly over driven, that is normal behaviors I believe.

Please try again:

Code:

**** 12A6 ******************************************
* Created on 08/05/2022 01:37 using paint_kip.jar
* www.dmitrynizh.com/tubeparams_image.htm
* Plate Curves image file: 12a6.png
* Data source link: <plate curves URL>
*----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
.SUBCKT 12A6 P G2 G K ; LTSpice tetrode.asy pinout
* .SUBCKT 12A6 P G K G2 ; Koren Pentode Pspice pinout
+ PARAMS: MU=9.4 KG1=6979.25 KP=110.52 KVB=339.16 VCT=2.657 EX=1.541 KG2=28485.35 KNEE=17.92 KVC=1.801
+ KLAM=2E-6 KLAMG=6.204E-8 KNEE2=0.201 KNEX=0.05115  KNK=-0.04158 KNG=0.008585 KNPL=0.625 KNSL=22.22 KNPR=164.07 KNSR=73.58
+ CCG=9P CGP=0.3P CCP=9P VGOFF=0 IGA=2.072 IGB=8.55 IGC=1.375 IGEX=0.1992
* Vp_MAX=500 Ip_MAX=160 Vg_step=5 Vg_start=10 Vg_count=13
* X_MIN=82 Y_MIN=28 X_SIZE=760 Y_SIZE=608 FSZ_X=1296 FSZ_Y=736 XYGrid=true
* Rp=1400 Vg_ac=20 P_max=7.5 Vg_qui=-20 Vp_qui=300
* showLoadLine=n showIp=y isDHP=n isPP=n isAsymPP=n isUL=n showDissipLimit=y
* showIg1=y isInputSnapped=y addLocalNFB=n
* XYProjections=n harmonicPlot=y dissipPlot=n
* UL=0.43 EG2=250 gridLevel2=y addKink=y isTanhKnee=y advSigmoid=n
*----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RE1  7 0  1G    ; DUMMY SO NODE 7 HAS 2 CONNECTIONS
E1   7 0  VALUE=  ; E1 BREAKS UP LONG EQUATION FOR G1.
+{V(G2,K)/KP*LOG(1+EXP((1/MU+(VCT+V(G,K))/SQRT(KVB+V(G2,K)*V(G2,K)))*KP))}
RE2  6 0  1G    ; DUMMY SO NODE 6 HAS 2 CONNECTIONS
E2  6 0  VALUE={(PWR(V(7),EX)+PWRS(V(7),EX))} ; Kg1 times KIT current
RE21 21 0 1
E21  21 0 VALUE={V(6)/KG1*ATAN((V(P,K)+KNEX)/KNEE)*TANH(V(P,K)/KNEE2)} ; Ip with knee but no slope and no kink
RE22 22 0 1 ; E22: kink curr deviation for plate
E22  22 0 VALUE={V(21)*LIMIT(KNK-V(G,K)*KNG,0,0.3)*(-ATAN((V(P,K)-KNPL)/KNSL)+ATAN((V(P,K)-KNPR)/KNSR))}
G1   P  K  VALUE={V(21)*(1+KLAMG*V(P,K))+KLAM*V(P,K) + V(22)}
* Alexander Gurskii screen current, see audioXpress 2/2011, with slope and kink added
RE43 43 K 1G ; Dummy
E43  43 G2 VALUE={0} ; Dummy
G2   43 K  VALUE={V(6)/KG2*(KVC-ATAN((V(P,K)+KNEX)/KNEE)*TANH(V(P,K)/KNEE2))/(1+KLAMG*V(P,K))-V(22)}
RCP  P K  1G     ; FOR CONVERGENCE
C1   K G  {CCG}  ; CATHODE-GRID 1
C2   G P  {CGP}  ; GRID 1-PLATE
C3   K P  {CCP}  ; CATHODE-PLATE
RE23 G 0 1G
GG G K VALUE={(IGA+IGB/(IGC+V(P,K)))*(MU/KG1)*
+(PWR(V(G,K)-VGOFF,IGEX)+PWRS(V(G,K)-VGOFF,IGEX))}
.ENDS
*$

b_force · 2022-08-05 5:10 am

Koonw said:

Here is revised12a6 RCA model as previous model draws too much grid1 current, hence VGOFF is adjusted to 0V from -1.8V and grid current scale readjusted. Attached shown is grid current drawn just slightly over driven, that is normal behaviors I believe.

Please try again:

Code:

**** 12A6 ******************************************
* Created on 08/05/2022 01:37 using paint_kip.jar
* www.dmitrynizh.com/tubeparams_image.htm
* Plate Curves image file: 12a6.png
* Data source link: <plate curves URL>
*----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
.SUBCKT 12A6 P G2 G K ; LTSpice tetrode.asy pinout
* .SUBCKT 12A6 P G K G2 ; Koren Pentode Pspice pinout
+ PARAMS: MU=9.4 KG1=6979.25 KP=110.52 KVB=339.16 VCT=2.657 EX=1.541 KG2=28485.35 KNEE=17.92 KVC=1.801
+ KLAM=2E-6 KLAMG=6.204E-8 KNEE2=0.201 KNEX=0.05115  KNK=-0.04158 KNG=0.008585 KNPL=0.625 KNSL=22.22 KNPR=164.07 KNSR=73.58
+ CCG=9P CGP=0.3P CCP=9P VGOFF=0 IGA=2.072 IGB=8.55 IGC=1.375 IGEX=0.1992
* Vp_MAX=500 Ip_MAX=160 Vg_step=5 Vg_start=10 Vg_count=13
* X_MIN=82 Y_MIN=28 X_SIZE=760 Y_SIZE=608 FSZ_X=1296 FSZ_Y=736 XYGrid=true
* Rp=1400 Vg_ac=20 P_max=7.5 Vg_qui=-20 Vp_qui=300
* showLoadLine=n showIp=y isDHP=n isPP=n isAsymPP=n isUL=n showDissipLimit=y
* showIg1=y isInputSnapped=y addLocalNFB=n
* XYProjections=n harmonicPlot=y dissipPlot=n
* UL=0.43 EG2=250 gridLevel2=y addKink=y isTanhKnee=y advSigmoid=n
*----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RE1  7 0  1G    ; DUMMY SO NODE 7 HAS 2 CONNECTIONS
E1   7 0  VALUE=  ; E1 BREAKS UP LONG EQUATION FOR G1.
+{V(G2,K)/KP*LOG(1+EXP((1/MU+(VCT+V(G,K))/SQRT(KVB+V(G2,K)*V(G2,K)))*KP))}
RE2  6 0  1G    ; DUMMY SO NODE 6 HAS 2 CONNECTIONS
E2  6 0  VALUE={(PWR(V(7),EX)+PWRS(V(7),EX))} ; Kg1 times KIT current
RE21 21 0 1
E21  21 0 VALUE={V(6)/KG1*ATAN((V(P,K)+KNEX)/KNEE)*TANH(V(P,K)/KNEE2)} ; Ip with knee but no slope and no kink
RE22 22 0 1 ; E22: kink curr deviation for plate
E22  22 0 VALUE={V(21)*LIMIT(KNK-V(G,K)*KNG,0,0.3)*(-ATAN((V(P,K)-KNPL)/KNSL)+ATAN((V(P,K)-KNPR)/KNSR))}
G1   P  K  VALUE={V(21)*(1+KLAMG*V(P,K))+KLAM*V(P,K) + V(22)}
* Alexander Gurskii screen current, see audioXpress 2/2011, with slope and kink added
RE43 43 K 1G ; Dummy
E43  43 G2 VALUE={0} ; Dummy
G2   43 K  VALUE={V(6)/KG2*(KVC-ATAN((V(P,K)+KNEX)/KNEE)*TANH(V(P,K)/KNEE2))/(1+KLAMG*V(P,K))-V(22)}
RCP  P K  1G     ; FOR CONVERGENCE
C1   K G  {CCG}  ; CATHODE-GRID 1
C2   G P  {CGP}  ; GRID 1-PLATE
C3   K P  {CCP}  ; CATHODE-PLATE
RE23 G 0 1G
GG G K VALUE={(IGA+IGB/(IGC+V(P,K)))*(MU/KG1)*
+(PWR(V(G,K)-VGOFF,IGEX)+PWRS(V(G,K)-VGOFF,IGEX))}
.ENDS
*$

Thanks again!

I don't see a lot of difference, and that weird clipping behavior is also still there.
It seems to be a quirk in LTSpice with certain models (not only tube related).
With some parts you just have to clip ever so slightly and it won't work it seems?

Koonw · 2022-08-05 5:35 am

That grid current fix maynot address your issue. But I don't understand exactly what is the problem so as to give you a fix. To help us, can you post some snapshots of simulation or files?

jcalvarez · 2022-08-05 10:30 am

b_force said:
Thanks again!

I don't see a lot of difference, and that weird clipping behavior is also still there.
It seems to be a quirk in LTSpice with certain models (not only tube related).
With some parts you just have to clip ever so slightly and it won't work it seems?

I have seen this particular behaviour, where the slightest hint of clipping makes the simulation unstable. It's unpredictable, at least in my experience.

Koonw · 2022-08-05 2:23 pm

During clipping grid 1 went into oscillation esp with cap coupled input. If in A2 (direct coupled) mode rather than A1(cap coupled), it's fine. So I want to post here a less complex grid current model (RGI), but less accurate where everything else is not affected.
12a6 RGI grid current model:

Code:

**** 12A6 ******************************************
* Created on 08/05/2022 21:08 using paint_kip.jar
* www.dmitrynizh.com/tubeparams_image.htm
* Plate Curves image file: 12a6.png
* Data source link: <plate curves URL>
*----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
.SUBCKT 12A6 P G2 G K ; LTSpice tetrode.asy pinout
* .SUBCKT 12A6 P G K G2 ; Koren Pentode Pspice pinout
+ PARAMS: MU=9.4 KG1=6979.25 KP=110.52 KVB=339.16 VCT=2.657 EX=1.541 KG2=23357.99 KNEE=17.92 KVC=1.873
+ KLAM=2E-6 KLAMG=6.204E-8 KNEE2=0.201 KNEX=0.05115  KNK=-0.04158 KNG=0.008585 KNPL=0.625 KNSL=22.22 KNPR=164.07 KNSR=73.58
+ CCG=9P CGP=0.3P CCP=9P RGI=960.0
* Vp_MAX=500 Ip_MAX=160 Vg_step=5 Vg_start=10 Vg_count=13
* X_MIN=82 Y_MIN=28 X_SIZE=760 Y_SIZE=608 FSZ_X=1296 FSZ_Y=736 XYGrid=true
* Rp=1400 Vg_ac=20 P_max=7.5 Vg_qui=-20 Vp_qui=300
* showLoadLine=n showIp=y isDHP=n isPP=n isAsymPP=n isUL=n showDissipLimit=y
* showIg1=y isInputSnapped=y addLocalNFB=n
* XYProjections=n harmonicPlot=y dissipPlot=n
* UL=0.43 EG2=250 gridLevel2=n addKink=y isTanhKnee=y advSigmoid=n
*----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RE1  7 0  1G    ; DUMMY SO NODE 7 HAS 2 CONNECTIONS
E1   7 0  VALUE=  ; E1 BREAKS UP LONG EQUATION FOR G1.
+{V(G2,K)/KP*LOG(1+EXP((1/MU+(VCT+V(G,K))/SQRT(KVB+V(G2,K)*V(G2,K)))*KP))}
RE2  6 0  1G    ; DUMMY SO NODE 6 HAS 2 CONNECTIONS
E2  6 0  VALUE={(PWR(V(7),EX)+PWRS(V(7),EX))} ; Kg1 times KIT current
RE21 21 0 1
E21  21 0 VALUE={V(6)/KG1*ATAN((V(P,K)+KNEX)/KNEE)*TANH(V(P,K)/KNEE2)} ; Ip with knee but no slope and no kink
RE22 22 0 1 ; E22: kink curr deviation for plate
E22  22 0 VALUE={V(21)*LIMIT(KNK-V(G,K)*KNG,0,0.3)*(-ATAN((V(P,K)-KNPL)/KNSL)+ATAN((V(P,K)-KNPR)/KNSR))}
G1   P  K  VALUE={V(21)*(1+KLAMG*V(P,K))+KLAM*V(P,K) + V(22)}
* Alexander Gurskii screen current, see audioXpress 2/2011, with slope and kink added
RE43 43 K 1G ; Dummy
E43  43 G2 VALUE={0} ; Dummy
G2   43 K  VALUE={V(6)/KG2*(KVC-ATAN((V(P,K)+KNEX)/KNEE)*TANH(V(P,K)/KNEE2))/(1+KLAMG*V(P,K))-V(22)}
RCP  P K  1G     ; FOR CONVERGENCE
C1   K G  {CCG}  ; CATHODE-GRID 1
C2   G P  {CGP}  ; GRID 1-PLATE
C3   K P  {CCP}  ; CATHODE-PLATE
R1   G 5  {RGI}  ; FOR GRID CURRENT  
D3   5 K  DX     ; FOR GRID CURRENT }
.MODEL DX D(IS=1N RS=1 CJO=10PF TT=1N)
.ENDS
*$

DIM · 2022-08-06 4:43 pm

Hello everyone!
Does anyone have a 5A/152M model in a pentode?

b_force · 2022-08-06 5:41 pm

Koonw said:

During clipping grid 1 went into oscillation esp with cap coupled input. If in A2 (direct coupled) mode rather than A1(cap coupled), it's fine. So I want to post here a less complex grid current model (RGI), but less accurate where everything else is not affected.
12a6 RGI grid current model:

Code:

**** 12A6 ******************************************
* Created on 08/05/2022 21:08 using paint_kip.jar
* www.dmitrynizh.com/tubeparams_image.htm
* Plate Curves image file: 12a6.png
* Data source link: <plate curves URL>
*----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
.SUBCKT 12A6 P G2 G K ; LTSpice tetrode.asy pinout
* .SUBCKT 12A6 P G K G2 ; Koren Pentode Pspice pinout
+ PARAMS: MU=9.4 KG1=6979.25 KP=110.52 KVB=339.16 VCT=2.657 EX=1.541 KG2=23357.99 KNEE=17.92 KVC=1.873
+ KLAM=2E-6 KLAMG=6.204E-8 KNEE2=0.201 KNEX=0.05115  KNK=-0.04158 KNG=0.008585 KNPL=0.625 KNSL=22.22 KNPR=164.07 KNSR=73.58
+ CCG=9P CGP=0.3P CCP=9P RGI=960.0
* Vp_MAX=500 Ip_MAX=160 Vg_step=5 Vg_start=10 Vg_count=13
* X_MIN=82 Y_MIN=28 X_SIZE=760 Y_SIZE=608 FSZ_X=1296 FSZ_Y=736 XYGrid=true
* Rp=1400 Vg_ac=20 P_max=7.5 Vg_qui=-20 Vp_qui=300
* showLoadLine=n showIp=y isDHP=n isPP=n isAsymPP=n isUL=n showDissipLimit=y
* showIg1=y isInputSnapped=y addLocalNFB=n
* XYProjections=n harmonicPlot=y dissipPlot=n
* UL=0.43 EG2=250 gridLevel2=n addKink=y isTanhKnee=y advSigmoid=n
*----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RE1  7 0  1G    ; DUMMY SO NODE 7 HAS 2 CONNECTIONS
E1   7 0  VALUE=  ; E1 BREAKS UP LONG EQUATION FOR G1.
+{V(G2,K)/KP*LOG(1+EXP((1/MU+(VCT+V(G,K))/SQRT(KVB+V(G2,K)*V(G2,K)))*KP))}
RE2  6 0  1G    ; DUMMY SO NODE 6 HAS 2 CONNECTIONS
E2  6 0  VALUE={(PWR(V(7),EX)+PWRS(V(7),EX))} ; Kg1 times KIT current
RE21 21 0 1
E21  21 0 VALUE={V(6)/KG1*ATAN((V(P,K)+KNEX)/KNEE)*TANH(V(P,K)/KNEE2)} ; Ip with knee but no slope and no kink
RE22 22 0 1 ; E22: kink curr deviation for plate
E22  22 0 VALUE={V(21)*LIMIT(KNK-V(G,K)*KNG,0,0.3)*(-ATAN((V(P,K)-KNPL)/KNSL)+ATAN((V(P,K)-KNPR)/KNSR))}
G1   P  K  VALUE={V(21)*(1+KLAMG*V(P,K))+KLAM*V(P,K) + V(22)}
* Alexander Gurskii screen current, see audioXpress 2/2011, with slope and kink added
RE43 43 K 1G ; Dummy
E43  43 G2 VALUE={0} ; Dummy
G2   43 K  VALUE={V(6)/KG2*(KVC-ATAN((V(P,K)+KNEX)/KNEE)*TANH(V(P,K)/KNEE2))/(1+KLAMG*V(P,K))-V(22)}
RCP  P K  1G     ; FOR CONVERGENCE
C1   K G  {CCG}  ; CATHODE-GRID 1
C2   G P  {CGP}  ; GRID 1-PLATE
C3   K P  {CCP}  ; CATHODE-PLATE
R1   G 5  {RGI}  ; FOR GRID CURRENT 
D3   5 K  DX     ; FOR GRID CURRENT }
.MODEL DX D(IS=1N RS=1 CJO=10PF TT=1N)
.ENDS
*$

Thank you so much again for all the effort!!
Will check later, currently on holiday 🙂

jan.didden · 2022-08-08 12:39 pm

I know this thread is really for LTspice tube models, but I was wondering if someone has an LTspice simulation file with models for a push-pull tube power amp? Doesn't matter which tubes, I just want to check something out.
Would save me a lot of time, appreciated!

Jan

jcalvarez · 2022-08-08 1:03 pm

jan.didden said:
I know this thread is really for LTspice tube models, but I was wondering if someone has an LTspice simulation file with models for a push-pull tube power amp? Doesn't matter which tubes, I just want to check something out.
Would save me a lot of time, appreciated!

Jan

Here is one, based on EICO HF-89, built first, then simulated.

jan.didden · 2022-08-08 1:14 pm

Thanks, that's a nice circuit for me to play with. Could you also post the .asc?

Jan

jcalvarez · 2022-08-08 1:59 pm

jan.didden said:
Thanks, that's a nice circuit for me to play with. Could you also post the .asc?

Jan

I will send a PM with a zip file
Edit: my post shows the asc attached, can you see it?

jan.didden · 2022-08-08 2:20 pm

Yes I do, sorry I missed it.
Missing triode-w1-ddtransppul , probably a .inc file?

Jan

Jan

jcalvarez · 2022-08-08 2:35 pm

jan.didden said:
Yes I do, sorry I missed it.
Missing triode-w1-ddtransppul , probably a .inc file?

Jan

Jan

Missing stuff in the archive.

jan.didden · 2022-08-08 2:41 pm

Almost! I think I also need .inc c:\Users\jcalv\Google Drive\Electronics\LTSpice\6L6.inc or at least the 6L6.inc .
There are 3 other .inc files which I believe I do not need.

Jan

jcalvarez · 2022-08-08 2:49 pm

jan.didden said:
Almost! I think I also need .inc c:\Users\jcalv\Google Drive\Electronics\LTSpice\6L6.inc or at least the 6L6.inc .
There are 3 other .inc files which I believe I do not need.

Jan

Attached, just rename it to 6L6.inc

Zung · 2022-08-08 4:20 pm

Here's my Leak ST60.
Beware of the OPT I stole from somewhere

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