ShinOBIWAN
The Manger will always sound best in large flat baffle, but I think it is not difficult to combine MSW with 8inch midbass in smaller enclosure.
What is now your choice for best high frequency resolution? Scan-Speak ring or alluminium ribbon like RAAL or Manger?
The Manger will always sound best in large flat baffle, but I think it is not difficult to combine MSW with 8inch midbass in smaller enclosure.
What is now your choice for best high frequency resolution? Scan-Speak ring or alluminium ribbon like RAAL or Manger?
Bose(o) said:
Not everyone finds them ugly, most do though. I'm one of the latter but willing to forgive them that for the sound. The build quality is rock solid though with a cast alu tear drop enclosure for the midrange that sits half in and half out of the enclosure. Would definitely need a CNC to do that sort of work.
Awesome project!!
I'll follow this. 😉
Love the mangers. Not the most perfect speakers in the world (from a technical point of view) but they sure as hell sound great. I heard them a couple of times, and always struck me.
I'll follow this. 😉
Love the mangers. Not the most perfect speakers in the world (from a technical point of view) but they sure as hell sound great. I heard them a couple of times, and always struck me.
fgroen said:
Can't get on with the Mangers I'm afraid. Nice driver, very nice in some respects but its got one or two major problems that go against my own preferences.
Instead it'll be back to business as usual:
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A tiny floorstander measuring 24cm W by 90cm H and roughly 50cm deep. I'll pickup where I left off and continue with the RAAL 140-15D, Accuton C90-T6 and a couple of Seas Excel W22's.
Check the name too, those with too much time on their hands will get a chuckle from it 😉
In the meantime I've cop't out and bought commercial. But fulfilling but easy!
No traces of any DIY audio kit is left now. Strange feeling, the stuff in the room doesn't feel like mine, although it isn't stolen... honest.
I'll live with this commercial kit for awhile until I can get those Tarantism's, shown above, up and running.
Anyway a couple of pictures for those interested:
I've still got bits to sort but here's the projector in action firing onto a 92" screen:
No traces of any DIY audio kit is left now. Strange feeling, the stuff in the room doesn't feel like mine, although it isn't stolen... honest.
I'll live with this commercial kit for awhile until I can get those Tarantism's, shown above, up and running.
Anyway a couple of pictures for those interested:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I've still got bits to sort but here's the projector in action firing onto a 92" screen:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
ShinOBIWAN
You are planing very nice project with RAAL tweeter and Accuton mid. I would do the same, if I had not the Manger. You should consider also the Scan-Speak alluminium woofers. Excellent drivers. Looking forward to reading about your results.
You are planing very nice project with RAAL tweeter and Accuton mid. I would do the same, if I had not the Manger. You should consider also the Scan-Speak alluminium woofers. Excellent drivers. Looking forward to reading about your results.
jirka said:
Thank Jirka, should sound OK if I ever build it. TBH there's other avenues I'm looking at too so things will likely change.
fgroen said:
🙂
The Kef's are good speakers especially for home theater. I've actually grown quite fond of the sound.
Not as detailed and upfront as what I'm used to but smooth and forgiving, they project vocals and the midrange in general amazingly well considering. Huge soundstage and great imaging too.
I only paid £600 for the left and rights which is silly money considering they retail at £2000. Got a bit of bargain there and I don't doubt that you couldn't do a similarly built and perfoming DIY pair for that money. You'd probably get your drivers for that but the time involved in the cabinets would make the whole thing pointless. So you can see why I'm not rushing to any DIY just yet and at the moment I'm happy enough to not feel an urgent need for better sound. I'll just sit back and enjoy these for awhile whilst I cook up idea's for whatever I decide to build next.
ShinOBIWAN said:
Hi,
Is it just me who finds this a little bit sad and disappointing?.
I honestly couldn't go back to commercial nowdays (as I would have to spend too much £££ ($$$) to match the performance I'm now used to 😉).
I'll be interested and am looking forward to seeing how you progress with the new speakers though.
Paul.
p.s. So is there something wrong with AVtalk then? 😕
PaulSmith said:
I think people place too much emphasis on DIY actually offering an unquestionable edge in superiority over what you could buy commercially. Its a myth that I myself perpetuate but the fact of the matter is that a greater population of the folks on here simply don't have the facilities and maybe the skill to come up with what most of us would agree is a well implemented design. That's doubley true of the fit and finish.
I wouldn't drop £2k on those Kef's but for £600 nothing DIY will considerably better them without large effort. TBH the idea of "a little bit better" for similar money and large amounts of time and effort isn't much fun to me. Now if you had £2k to spend on drivers and crossover parts which is roughly the Kef's RRP then its a different story - thats if you've got the time, understanding and measurement equipment to do so, if not then your wasting your money.
I've been a tireless DIY'er for 2 years with alsorts of projects built in that time including an ambitious one. I realise that to build something exceptional requires huge amounts of time and effort along with a not inconsiderable budget.
The difference between good and very good isn't as pronounced as you may believe. Hence the Kef's are a well implemented, well built and good sounding speaker that can be considered near the top of its price class. Spending £2k on drivers and crossover parts in throughly well built and designed implementation would yield improvements across the board but how big? Its not so much a revelation you'd have but rather a refinement.
I've now got good sound that came cheap and with no effort. I'm looking at something that isn't a million miles off what my Perceive 2's did and considering they set me back nearly £3k just for the drivers and cabinets let alone the crossovers plus over a years effort. And then there's the Kef's that cost me £600 with zero effort and come close enough to not actually be that bothered...
I guess what I'm saying is the idea of DIY is often more attractive than the outcome when weighing up all factors and not just the sound.
My next project will be built because I believe it offers a big enough improvement to both justify the time, the effort and the cost.
Hey Shin,
A bit off track here, but that projector of yours is AWESOME! You must be quite happy with it. Do you have a model number?
Cheers
Gert
A bit off track here, but that projector of yours is AWESOME! You must be quite happy with it. Do you have a model number?
Cheers
Gert
Hi ShinOBIWAN,
You are quite correct that there is a common belief that DIY speakers will automatically be better than commercial speakers,
The truth is of course that there are both good and bad speakers (in DIY and Commercial), with probably a higher ratio of bad ones in the DIY section unfortunately 🙁.
As you say 2nd hand commercial speakers can present very good material value.
My example of this was when I bought a pair of Duntech speakers, for about 1/5 of the retail price, I made a matching DIY AV center speaker for them (as Duntech didn't have a center of their own), the interesting thing was I ended up paying more for just the speaker parts than I did for one of the complete ( original comercial ) speakers.
Still in use as a good (high-end) reference to check my own designs against.
I've now been dabling in DIY for a number of years, however I personally wouldn't ever spend £2k on speaker parts as I don't really agree with the use of these super estoric bits.
I feel that any increase in performance is often Very Small and certainly not worth paying 2x, 3x or even 4x times the price 😱 (I normally spend more like £300 per speaker - and that's for a floorstander, a bookshelf one would be less).
For my latest speakers the parts value (per channel) is no higher than that of my DIY Duntech, despite this the new speakers are definately better performers (sounds more real), so for me parts cost isn't everything.
Anyway I hope you enjoy your KEFs until you get back on the DIY wagon (always like reading about your DIY activities 😀),
I've not heard the 201's myself, I've only heard the big floorstander versions (didn't like them much - rather disappointing really - but hopefully it was a bad setup issue).
Paul.
You are quite correct that there is a common belief that DIY speakers will automatically be better than commercial speakers,
The truth is of course that there are both good and bad speakers (in DIY and Commercial), with probably a higher ratio of bad ones in the DIY section unfortunately 🙁.
As you say 2nd hand commercial speakers can present very good material value.
My example of this was when I bought a pair of Duntech speakers, for about 1/5 of the retail price, I made a matching DIY AV center speaker for them (as Duntech didn't have a center of their own), the interesting thing was I ended up paying more for just the speaker parts than I did for one of the complete ( original comercial ) speakers.
Still in use as a good (high-end) reference to check my own designs against.
I've now been dabling in DIY for a number of years, however I personally wouldn't ever spend £2k on speaker parts as I don't really agree with the use of these super estoric bits.
I feel that any increase in performance is often Very Small and certainly not worth paying 2x, 3x or even 4x times the price 😱 (I normally spend more like £300 per speaker - and that's for a floorstander, a bookshelf one would be less).
For my latest speakers the parts value (per channel) is no higher than that of my DIY Duntech, despite this the new speakers are definately better performers (sounds more real), so for me parts cost isn't everything.
Anyway I hope you enjoy your KEFs until you get back on the DIY wagon (always like reading about your DIY activities 😀),
I've not heard the 201's myself, I've only heard the big floorstander versions (didn't like them much - rather disappointing really - but hopefully it was a bad setup issue).
Paul.
PaulSmith said:
Howdo Paul,
That is so very true. Subconsciously I've come to realise that. You don't need to spend a thousand or more on drivers to get a very good loudspeaker, if anything is more to do with vanity than the sound.
The magic comes not from high price, high profile but rather considered design and matching. This is something that more often than not has to be done through experimenting and trying the drivers out together rather than sitting down for days pouring over specs and parameters, although they do get you a good percentage of the way.
You'll often hear of folks talking about things dropping into place and its just a way describing a good feeling to the sound. Playing around with the crossover, driver selection and cabinet design eventually lead to that 'dropping into place'. Its got little to do with high end and high price.
I always like to nice things though so it kills me to spend sensible money on plain old good drivers. I like to feel that I'm using something a bit different that allows my designs as much headroom as possible. Of course I do get ripped off in the process, well maybe not ripped off but certainly very low value for money considering the alternatives.
Thanks Paul, the Kef's really are nice speakers for £600 so I'm pleased with my purchase and again they're good enough for me to not consider jumping straight into DIY again.
gbyleveldt said:
Hi Gert,
The projector is a Yamaha DPX-1200:
http://www.ultimateavmag.com/videoprojectors/705yamaha/
Another bargain too. The projector is last years model and did retail for around £7000 new. I bought this one second hand a couple of months ago for £1000. Projectors depreciate in value quicker than most technologies due to low demand and advances in the field but the price I paid was still silly money.
The images its capable of producing are amazing and still takes me aback at times despite this being my 8th projector. Even more surprising is that those photo's I took on the last page don't look as good as the real thing in action.
Still playing around with idea's for some decent HT speakers but these have grown on me:
Nothing particularly amazing about any aspect of the design. But it uses solid drivers, a sturdy and compact cabinet along with being mindful of aspects such as diffraction, combing and generally using the drivers in a sensible way.
Looks like a safe bet for great sounds and meets my desires for a high quality, compact design.
On another note, the screen is now finished thanks to the addition of a frame built out of velvet covered timber. A nice easy DIY with a big saving over the £400+ that it would have cost to buy.
Got one or two Christmas pressies arriving next week too:
A pair of BK Monolith subwoofers: http://www.bkelec.com/HiFi/Sub_Woofers/Monolith Review.pdf
A pair of ATI's finest amplifier case:
6 channels of Aussieamp' NX150 + PSUOne
And a pair of 1ft stands to put the Kef's on.
Nothing particularly amazing about any aspect of the design. But it uses solid drivers, a sturdy and compact cabinet along with being mindful of aspects such as diffraction, combing and generally using the drivers in a sensible way.
Looks like a safe bet for great sounds and meets my desires for a high quality, compact design.
On another note, the screen is now finished thanks to the addition of a frame built out of velvet covered timber. A nice easy DIY with a big saving over the £400+ that it would have cost to buy.
Got one or two Christmas pressies arriving next week too:
A pair of BK Monolith subwoofers: http://www.bkelec.com/HiFi/Sub_Woofers/Monolith Review.pdf
A pair of ATI's finest amplifier case:
6 channels of Aussieamp' NX150 + PSUOne
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
And a pair of 1ft stands to put the Kef's on.
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