Though the driver isn't a high spl driver.. the eton 12 inch should be on the list as well IF their distortion measurements are accurate and at least at reference level:
http://www.eton-gmbh.de/dlstream.php?FileId=64
..amazing how little the distortion increases near the driver's mechanical resonance. This would likely be the driver for a DIY version of genlec's "home" subs. (VERY expensive though.)
http://www.eton-gmbh.de/dlstream.php?FileId=64
..amazing how little the distortion increases near the driver's mechanical resonance. This would likely be the driver for a DIY version of genlec's "home" subs. (VERY expensive though.)
ultimate subwoofer driver
Put aside all data and try to learn from experiences.
as mentionned before, the Eton 12" driver is awsome. Very fast!!!dry and seemingly limitless bass. You can clearly hear the lack of distortion.
The most obvious downturn is the price.
Nevertheless I found 4 of these drivers to fulfill my every need in bass-nirvana.
Still, there are ways to getting hold of these drivers at much less than MSRP.
Put aside all data and try to learn from experiences.
as mentionned before, the Eton 12" driver is awsome. Very fast!!!dry and seemingly limitless bass. You can clearly hear the lack of distortion.
The most obvious downturn is the price.
Nevertheless I found 4 of these drivers to fulfill my every need in bass-nirvana.
Still, there are ways to getting hold of these drivers at much less than MSRP.
This could also be interesting if other things than brute force count.
http://cgi.ebay.de/PODSZUS-GORLICH-...ryZ21994QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.de/PODSZUS-GORLICH-...ryZ21994QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Scott, I see you have the right approach. Individual closed cabinets is exactly what I use...
I have a dealer who sold a pack of 8 to me for 62% of MRSP. 8 I used and the other ones where used by a friend of mine in Australia.
If you are seriously interested, I would check if my dealer would be willing to do this deal again. Maybe if others join in...
I have a dealer who sold a pack of 8 to me for 62% of MRSP. 8 I used and the other ones where used by a friend of mine in Australia.
If you are seriously interested, I would check if my dealer would be willing to do this deal again. Maybe if others join in...
Sorry! Hit the wrong button. I used 4 only! The other 4 went to the kangaroo and the land of Jarra (great for tonearm-bases...)...
Another interesting adress for bassdrivers is www.visaton.de.
They have great 10" and 12" drivers. Look for the TIX 250 XS and the TIW 300.
Visaton drivers "feel" more comfortable in a vented cabinet.
By the way, ever auditioned a Burmester B80 or B88. Great bass...wasn´t it?! Well these were the Visaton drivers you heard.
Another interesting adress for bassdrivers is www.visaton.de.
They have great 10" and 12" drivers. Look for the TIX 250 XS and the TIW 300.
Visaton drivers "feel" more comfortable in a vented cabinet.
By the way, ever auditioned a Burmester B80 or B88. Great bass...wasn´t it?! Well these were the Visaton drivers you heard.
But thanks! 
ScottG said:
The graph I posted was for a closed box of 2x 70 litres volume, that gave a Qtc of about 0,6 and a theroretical -3dB of 78Hz. Not very low, but if you consider that being -3dB from 104,5dB's/2,83V/1m (two drivers parallel) you can imagine at 20Hz there is still some serious SPL left over for normal hifi use and it needs hardly any bass-boost so distortion is low. The parametric eq shows no boost at 28Hz, + 2dB's at 20Hz and +6dB's at 16Hz. (sorry about the reflections on the photo's but it was taken from my TV screen - the scale on the left runs from +6 to -12dB)
If I had used a closed box with a Qtc of 0,5 then I would have only needed +3dB boost at 16Hz but the enclosure would have grown to 2x 110 litres - maybe I might do that after all.
So the clue is to use high SPL bass drivers and cut their efficiency at the top end by using a lower Fx than normal. Using a Velodyne SMS-1 in combination with a 2x 400 watts UCD amp, I can get -3dB at 15Hz in my living room with 3260cm2 of cone area and ruler flat - I can assure you, that does sound quite nice.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Circlomanen said:Geenius, thats a nice looking sub you got there!!!!
Thanks! It's still a prototype, eventually I hope to build something like this:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
The 46cm Fertin has almost the same parameters as the PD (awfully low Qts, awfully high Vas). Does anybody know how the Mammut sub from Blackforest Audio works?
http://www.blackforestaudio.de/FertinTechDataFLB20/fertintechdataflb20.htm
http://www.blackforestaudio.de/FertinTechDataFLB20/fertintechdataflb20.htm
i think i need a pair of these hehe! http://www.mtxaudio.com/caraudio/products/subwoofers/jackHammer.cfm
http://www.mtxaudio.com/caraudio/products/subwoofers/jackHammer.cfm
el`Ol said:
The parametres of the Fertin can be tuned because it has an active motor system:
Data for 46EX with various voltages
Fertin website
Re: Re: ultimate subwoofer driver
Why use 4, when 1 will do just fine?
I am speaking of long term personal experience with the Tumult.
And seperate sealed enclosures yields no benefit. In fact it makes it more prone to variability in response. And it makes it more prone to PLD frequency and phase issues in the room.
ScottG said:
Yup, 4 drivers was what I was thinking.. specifically each in their own sealed enclosures.
OK, you tease!
Why use 4, when 1 will do just fine?
I am speaking of long term personal experience with the Tumult.
And seperate sealed enclosures yields no benefit. In fact it makes it more prone to variability in response. And it makes it more prone to PLD frequency and phase issues in the room.
Why 4?
More cone surface (my room is about 450square feet), less excursion ergo less distortion at reasonnable levels, depending on posiotioning better damping of radiation ergo less problems with room modes... and the list could go on and on.
4 of these 12" Etons just did it!
So much for experience...
With my active crossover I even can work with reasonable amps (not those prowlertype 1.5kW monstern without any dampingfactor...). 400W at 4 Ohms do more than a great job to drive two drivers at a time.
More cone surface (my room is about 450square feet), less excursion ergo less distortion at reasonnable levels, depending on posiotioning better damping of radiation ergo less problems with room modes... and the list could go on and on.
4 of these 12" Etons just did it!
So much for experience...
With my active crossover I even can work with reasonable amps (not those prowlertype 1.5kW monstern without any dampingfactor...). 400W at 4 Ohms do more than a great job to drive two drivers at a time.
Re: Re: Re: ultimate subwoofer driver
What mach.88 and Puggie said..
Additionally you'll note that I was specifically refering to the genlec sub.. In this configuration you'll have only a little benefit with room modes over a signle driver configuration (because without seperate subwoofers you can't place them in different parts of the room). So then why the seperate enclosure per driver located in the same area? Why distortion, what else? With the single sealed enclosure per driver you have a better chance of controling pressurization and stored energy in the box. You will likely also decrease cabinet vibration.
..but its mostly about having less current bouncing and burning through the VC and less excursion - i.e. again less distortion.
AudialDelta said:
What mach.88 and Puggie said..
Additionally you'll note that I was specifically refering to the genlec sub.. In this configuration you'll have only a little benefit with room modes over a signle driver configuration (because without seperate subwoofers you can't place them in different parts of the room). So then why the seperate enclosure per driver located in the same area? Why distortion, what else? With the single sealed enclosure per driver you have a better chance of controling pressurization and stored energy in the box. You will likely also decrease cabinet vibration.
..but its mostly about having less current bouncing and burning through the VC and less excursion - i.e. again less distortion.
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