Hi
I just saw your PM...sorry I did not answer. But maybe I can answer some questions here.
I listen to a wide variety of music, Classical, Jazz, Pop, these speakers cover everything. Recordings from the 70s can be really good and beautiful at times, those speakers can handle beauty. The rolloff is mainly a measurement artefact, I guess. I draw the microphone response correction data myself from the frequency sheet delivered with the mic, so it might not be correct up there. There is no eq shelving in the treble region, I kept the tweeters flat and trust their datasheet. And the crossovers on these speakers are still evolving. Right now I am listening to 24 dB Linkwitz Filters at 90, 300 and 1900Hz, phasecorrected with camilla and like it a lot. A 6dB rolloff from 10HZ to 10Khz sounds natural and right for me and my ears, but that might be a matter of taste. The beauty (and curse
) of the active speaker concept is the tweakabilty whenever you want.You really should invest in cheapo measurement equipment, and learn the use of it. A sound card + mic sets you back 100€ or so. It is really fun to do and you learn something during the process.
But here are some screenshots of the curves of my T.racks 4x4 dsp that I use at the moment. Since I use individual amps with different gains (like around 18dB for the tweeters, 23dB for Highmid, 26dB for lowmid and unknown for the subwoofer, you cannot simply translate that to another system.
And I just used the sb Satori because I had it at hand, I am pretty confident that the sb-17 would perform nearly as well and possibly better on the rear side of the speaker.
And I installed a volume knob on the subwoofer amp, because the right amount of bass is really different at times, depending on listening volume, recording philosophy and daytime
(my neighbours are grateful for that)Attachments
Hello, sorry to ask here but :
I am experimenting hybrid bass reflex lows and open baffle mid/high.
My beyma 12 b100r won't suit for OB use.
But I have a 6.5 BC 6md38, great mids and a 34mm Audax tweeter.
My question is, to crossover between lows and miss around 300hz, 60cms should be fine ?
I have read some posts talking about a limitation in size 2* or 2.2 mid speaker size...?
And last, tweeter integration, how do you treat diffraction? Waveguiding should help I guess.
What do you think the benefit compared to wide sealed and damped box ?
Thanks for helping.
Comments for attached picture : sounds good to me, I like to compare with quality headphones. I measured and nothing that strikes attention...
Greg
I am experimenting hybrid bass reflex lows and open baffle mid/high.
My beyma 12 b100r won't suit for OB use.
But I have a 6.5 BC 6md38, great mids and a 34mm Audax tweeter.
My question is, to crossover between lows and miss around 300hz, 60cms should be fine ?
I have read some posts talking about a limitation in size 2* or 2.2 mid speaker size...?
And last, tweeter integration, how do you treat diffraction? Waveguiding should help I guess.
What do you think the benefit compared to wide sealed and damped box ?
Thanks for helping.
Comments for attached picture : sounds good to me, I like to compare with quality headphones. I measured and nothing that strikes attention...
Greg
Attachments
Ah ok this explains a lot. That is a very cool amp! I have been looking for other affordable amps with DSPs. Good to know that your mic might not be reaching all the way up as well. I do have a U-MIK1 that I have been using to measure and tune my systems. It's a lot of fun.Hi
I just saw your PM...sorry I did not answer. But maybe I can answer some questions here.
I listen to a wide variety of music, Classical, Jazz, Pop, these speakers cover everything. Recordings from the 70s can be really good and beautiful at times, those speakers can handle beauty. The rolloff is mainly a measurement artefact, I guess. I draw the microphone response correction data myself from the frequency sheet delivered with the mic, so it might not be correct up there. There is no eq shelving in the treble region, I kept the tweeters flat and trust their datasheet. And the crossovers on these speakers are still evolving. Right now I am listening to 24 dB Linkwitz Filters at 90, 300 and 1900Hz, phasecorrected with camilla and like it a lot. A 6dB rolloff from 10HZ to 10Khz sounds natural and right for me and my ears, but that might be a matter of taste. The beauty (and curse
You really should invest in cheapo measurement equipment, and learn the use of it. A sound card + mic sets you back 100€ or so. It is really fun to do and you learn something during the process.
But here are some screenshots of the curves of my T.racks 4x4 dsp that I use at the moment. Since I use individual amps with different gains (like around 18dB for the tweeters, 23dB for Highmid, 26dB for lowmid and unknown for the subwoofer, you cannot simply translate that to another system.
And I just used the sb Satori because I had it at hand, I am pretty confident that the sb-17 would perform nearly as well and possibly better on the rear side of the speaker.
And I installed a volume knob on the subwoofer amp, because the right amount of bass is really different at times, depending on listening volume, recording philosophy and daytime
SEAS, Fountk, 4 Dayton 8". Built these about 12 years ago. Listening to them now. No need for subwoofers, great for HT and music. Ppl were sceptical about how they would sound, until I built them. Off axis is great because the wife and I both listen to them.
Attachments
So they are electronically out of phase but acoustically in phase, so the cones move in the same direction at the same time.
I’m curious, have you tried having the woofers both facing forwards with them acoustically (and electronically) in phase? Intuitively I would have thought that would give you a better result.
*Corrected by Mod at OP request.
its been all described on my old web page which geocities took it down
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/bipolar-vs-dipolar-sub-study.382943/
its been all described on my old web page which geocities took it down
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/bipolar-vs-dipolar-sub-study.382943/
Last edited by a moderator:
No baffle madness!
The box below is just a stand. Ignore the Manzanita for this instance.
Woofer: Peerless 830669 (leads reversed)
Mid: Focal Audiom 7A2
Tweet: B&C DE360
Software DSP crossover 4th order LR at 300 and 3K.
(https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...over-design-implementation-with-linux.330273/)
Just one in mono is really fun to listen to!
If I had more and longer pieces of makerbeam, this could be a solid and compact unit of a speaker.
I’m sure I’m breaking a number of rules here, but it sure is enjoyable.
The box below is just a stand. Ignore the Manzanita for this instance.
Woofer: Peerless 830669 (leads reversed)
Mid: Focal Audiom 7A2
Tweet: B&C DE360
Software DSP crossover 4th order LR at 300 and 3K.
(https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...over-design-implementation-with-linux.330273/)
Just one in mono is really fun to listen to!
If I had more and longer pieces of makerbeam, this could be a solid and compact unit of a speaker.
I’m sure I’m breaking a number of rules here, but it sure is enjoyable.
Attachments
I have a question about open baffle. I watch most of my TV after the kids go to sleep. I know regular box speakers make bass by pressurizing the room. Would open baffle speakers be able to deliver similar bass without shaking the house as much? I obviously don't watch TV at THX levels or w/e but it would be nice to listen to music a little louder while they sleep. Plus of course that would provide more pro WAF spin for the build.
Open baffle bass should excite fewer room modes but other than that it's not going to help much with your situation.
I would say that it would help. With "normal" boxes, the low bass is frequently heard in other rooms, more than it should. With OB (much depends on placement and liatening position), it is possible to have "sufficient" bass at the listening spot, whithout shaking other rooms.
But, the only sure way is to try it...
But, the only sure way is to try it...
Your build shares many touching points with mine and I can't help ask questions
. Yours looks finished, though, while mine looks like crap (prototype iterations).Do you happen to have a measurement of the TD8M in OB? I considered the TD8M in OB, discussed with John from AE. He was supportive but didn't have experience/data with TD8M in OB. And I was targeting to drive the mids with a SET, and the TD8M sensitivity seemed too low on paper. I have a 45-type SET on TPL-150H in OB and that works wonders. And for now I have MTM with B&C 8PE21 for mids that provide hi efficiency in OB but they don't really like a xo below 300Hz. TD8M flat impedance is nice load for SETs, though. Maybe I should reconsider the 2A3 amp.
BTW, have you tried (just as a test) with just one 15" per side? Per robixxx1's measurement they might be enough and you could use the other 15" to assemble an OB sub in H frame. Maybe down the road you leave 2x15" per side (since your baffles are finished) and build subs. I have one 18" per side playing 70-300Hz driven by UcD400 and is plenty for my room. In fact considering switching to a 15" for midbass and repurposing the 18" as subs in H frame.
Attached is one of the measurements for the OB-mounted TD8M, I hope it helps.Your build shares many touching points with mine and I can't help ask questions
Do you happen to have a measurement of the TD8M in OB? I considered the TD8M in OB, discussed with John from AE. He was supportive but didn't have experience/data with TD8M in OB. And I was targeting to drive the mids with a SET, and the TD8M sensitivity seemed too low on paper. I have a 45-type SET on TPL-150H in OB and that works wonders. And for now I have MTM with B&C 8PE21 for mids that provide hi efficiency in OB but they don't really like a xo below 300Hz. TD8M flat impedance is nice load for SETs, though. Maybe I should reconsider the 2A3 amp.
BTW, have you tried (just as a test) with just one 15" per side? Per robixxx1's measurement they might be enough and you could use the other 15" to assemble an OB sub in H frame. Maybe down the road you leave 2x15" per side (since your baffles are finished) and build subs. I have one 18" per side playing 70-300Hz driven by UcD400 and is plenty for my room. In fact considering switching to a 15" for midbass and repurposing the 18" as subs in H frame.
I haven't tried to use just one AE Dipole 15 ". But honestly, I don't feel the need to change anything.
Everything sounds OK to me, with a very present bass, full, very fast and articulate. If in the future I decide to use a subwoofer, I will use the Lii W-15 "speakers, I have 4 pieces. Maybe I'll try some Dipole or Ripole.
At the moment I am very satisfied and impressed by how well it sounds and how well it fits the TD8M with the TPL200.
For 3 weeks, I don't feel like doing anything audio,
and I had big plans. I just enjoy every song through Roon and Tydal every day.
And I have to thank you for all your messages about your OB project. Thanks to them I decided to use Beyma TPL.
I took the TPL200H model because the offer was undeniable.
Now I'm not sorry at all
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A friend of mine rebuilds JBL drivers and loaned me a set of JBL2251 10" mid woofers to try out in my new OB build. They measured extremely well in a small baffle.
I tried very hard for them to NOT look like LX521's but this baffle measures best. No other baffle shape came close to smooth on and off axis response of this one, oh well I'm after performance and if they resemble the LX521 so be it. I have a pair of LXmini+2 that I will be using the subwoofers for this build.
The baffle is just a temporary mock up to test driver response, once I have the baffle shape locked down then we'll make a nice wood one.
The set up will be 10" Seas L26ROY subwoofer, 10" JBL 2251 mid/woofer, NEO8 and NEO3.
The measurements were done in the shed 1.4m off the ground with a mic distance of 1.4m so I could get the wide gating. Treatment was also added to the floor to reduce reflections.
I tried very hard for them to NOT look like LX521's but this baffle measures best. No other baffle shape came close to smooth on and off axis response of this one, oh well I'm after performance and if they resemble the LX521 so be it. I have a pair of LXmini+2 that I will be using the subwoofers for this build.
The baffle is just a temporary mock up to test driver response, once I have the baffle shape locked down then we'll make a nice wood one.
The set up will be 10" Seas L26ROY subwoofer, 10" JBL 2251 mid/woofer, NEO8 and NEO3.
The measurements were done in the shed 1.4m off the ground with a mic distance of 1.4m so I could get the wide gating. Treatment was also added to the floor to reduce reflections.