Ultimate Loudspeaker

[jpetek]

Hello,

I want to build a highend box like this one

http://www.vonschweikert.com/zvr11.htm

or

http://www.goldmund.com/systems/fullsystem_2-channel/

or similar.

Now my question:

1. Does anybody know what chassis they use?
2. Did anybody make a similar project?

Thank you for your help.

Josef

 

[sdclc126]

1) Not sure what you mean by "chassis" - do you mean the
enclosure?

2) What kind of budget do you have?

3) Do you have a large to very large room for these?

 

[jpetek]

Hi,

sorry chassis means driver.
Yes I have the room about 100 squaremeter.
without Limit for the money.

regards

Josef

 

[tinitus]

WHY ? they dont look very ultimate to me...more like flawed designs, made to rip off peoples money...but I suppose that those who can afford them can also afford to be cheated

 

[BlueWizard]

That strikes me as a bit of overkill. Unless you have an auditorium for a listening room these are going to be way too much.

Still, if you have a small fortune laying around and a lot of time on your hands, more power to you; go for it. Just expect it to take a lot of time and cost a lot of money.

How about starting with something more modest and achievable like this-

http://www.partsexpress.com/projectshowcase/indexn.cfm?project=MillenniumIII

or these-

http://www.partsexpress.com/projectshowcase/indexn.cfm?project=MagnaCumLaude

Keep in mind that the The VR 11 Special Edition Von Schweikiert speakers you link to cost $150,000. Do you really have that kind of money to spend?

Steve/bluewizard

 

[MaVo]

Having read german audio magazines as klang und ton in the past, i think i know why you assume those are good loudspeakers. read a little more on this board and you will probably come to the conclusions that they are not, just like i did. those magazines just spill out lies about audio, they are there to sell advertising space, not to inform people. The expensive = good equation propagated by those ad mags isnt true. good comes from good engineering and this can not be seen immediatly, its rather subtle.

 

[sdclc126]

Josef -

I don't mean to be condescending here, but when you say your budget is unlimited then I would have to ask why don't you simply buy a pair of the commercial models and be done with it?

Or, if your budget is not quite that unlimited and you want to build, I would recommend you go out and actually audition some of these ultra high-end (at least price-wise) speakers, if you haven't done so already, and make sure you're building what you want to actually HEAR, not what you want to look cool in your room.

Having said that, there aren't a lot of DIY projects out there that are quite so ambitious - most of us are on a budget substantially below yours, and we build smaller - often just 2-way designs, with or without subwoofers. We go for bang for the buck, and many here will likely tell you that a well-designed speaker will sound good whether it's big or small.

For such an ambitious project I would say you'd need to select all the drivers first, then have a very competent designer design the enclosure and crossover for you - software will help of course, so you should consider investing in that also. A professional cabinet maker/woodworker would be my choice for building the cabinets.

If you can force yourself to think on a slightly smaller scale, look at some of the designs at Humble Homemade HiFi and Troels Gravesson - many very high-end three-way designs on those sights that may just peak your interest.

Hope this helps.

 

[el`Ol]

It seems to be a common disease among "megabuck" loudspeakers to use far too high driver spacing in d´Appolito designs and even two dome tweeters (von Schweikert, Goldmund, Dynaudio, Wilson WAMM). Does this let them look more impressive?


At a highend show (there is one in Frankfurt, if I remember correctly) one can hear more or less all speaker concepts, very useful before starting a mega-project. Implementation has become easier in times of DEQX.

 

[R-Carpenter]

Well, I am sure this monsters sound good. How good and how much betters the other speakers, that’s another question. I believe that the ultimate purpose of VR-11 is extremely high SPL without much of distortion. I guess 100 square meters will work for this.
You should know that on this forum people are very technical and also very skeptical.
Sales peach about Bass Slam and pase aren’t for us.
My first impression and bad taste coming from the description of VR is brands of capacitors and inductors. I use Solen perfect lay and capacitors in my bookshelf speakers and ProAc2.5 clones. They are good components and probably as good as other higher end brands but VR pretends to be the best of the best so why not Mundorf? I mean, I would assume that a $150 000 speaker system will use all the best components, right?
Anyways, I suspect that the idea here is to create a pair of insane speakers for 1/3 or ½ price of the original.
As a pro cabinetmaker I could do similar or more complicated cabinets in any exotic veneer ($5-$10 per foot) with finish of your choice for about 20k. Job would take 2 month.
You also will need a really good x-over designer and someone to measure the system after it’s assembled and twick it.

The bang for the buck sound (for as long as it’s good) is not always an object. Design and appearance make the statement of the owner.

Highs to 50 kHz make a difference if you are a dog. You’ll be lucky if you hear 20kHz.

 

[jpetek]

Dear All,

I already spoke with German designer about this project and we found a very good soultion.

Maybe you guys knows a better one.

Our solution is a line array with 7 drivers for miidle/high and 3 seperate Dipol for the bass per channel.

The reason why i didnt buy the VR11 is very simple. if you look to the costs of driver of this loudspeaker there is no relation to the price they want.

I know it is not easy BUT if you look to diyAudio.com they say projects by the fanatics, for the fanatics...

My room is big enough for this kind of speaker. i have now a Infinity Beta.

And I tested a lot of big speakers in my room.

regards

Josef

 

[ttan98]

Dear All,


The reason why i didnt buy the VR11 is very simple. if you look to the costs of driver of this loudspeaker there is no relation to the price they want.


Josef

the sound coming from VR11 is sum of many parts including, drivers, x-over and cabinets and many hours of testing. It is NOT so easy to dulpicate the sound unless you know "most" of the info on these speakers NOT just the drivers. Those who clone the Wilson Pupp I am not sure how successful they are in achieving their aims.

I agree with SDCLC that you would be better building speakers from Humble Homemade HiFi and Troels Gravesson - there are many very high-end three-way designs on those sights that may just peak your interest they have lots of info there, if you want more info they would be glad to give them to you FREE.

BTW the sound from line array is different from conventional 3 way speakers. If I were you, you need to narrow down to the type of sound you most likely to enjoy and then build or buy the type of speakers that fit into that kind of sound.

hope this helps.

 

[peufeu]

A $150K speaker with a passive crossover ? You gotta be kidding me
Having loads of different drivers (a 6-way ??) humongously complicates crossover design (and implementation especially if it's passive). Yes, it can be done, but the amount of designer time is reflected in the price (along with a large marketing multiplier, lol).
Start simple...

 

[thadman]

Why not wait for Lynn Olson's newest projection? RAAL + 18sound drivers or maybe try something similar to Shinobiwans RAAL + Audio Technology 3-ways.

 

[jerome69]

Hello Josef,

Large loudspeaker with many drivers is useful when you want high level with low distortion. That means you have an enough large room to produce high SPL levels (not good for your ears) and amplifiers which can handle this speakers.

If you can have technical skills to build such big speaker, Ok you can try. The correct design of such loudspeaker requires a lot of experience, measurement system, simulation software etc.
Otherwise you should better build a DIY kit or buy something less expensive. There are brands like ATC, FOCAL, JBL, SONUS FABER, PROAC etc.

Hope this brings something to you.

Regards.

 

[JonnySwitchblade]

Hi,

sorry chassis means driver.
Yes I have the room about 100 squaremeter.
without Limit for the money.

regards

Josef

I'm with you on this, that design is just absurd. While I'm sure it sounds great, that's a given because it has such a ridiculous amount of drivers. If you're going to build what is essentially a wall of speakers, you might as well design one of your own from the ground up around the drivers and crossovers you intend to use.

Call me lazy, call me old school but, I still like the sound of a good 2-way run full frequency, no crossovers. I mean come on, a good driver shouldn't need manipulated by a crossover. Some limiting on your tweeter but beyond that, wide open is the only way to go in my opinion.

 

[thadman]

I mean come on, a good driver shouldn't need manipulated by a crossover

That is quite far from the truth objectively. Purpose built drivers can be outstanding if implemented properly.

BTW that design you've linked looks like a haphazard jumble of expensive drivers with little consideration for acoustics.

 

[el`Ol]

Our solution is a line array with 7 drivers for miidle/high and 3 seperate Dipol for the bass per channel.


Josef

Well, maybe we think too technical here, but an array of mid/high drivers has even more lobing (Interferenz) problems than an oversized d´Apollito. Mid/high drivers that really do enough SPL are the Sonus ESLs and the soon to come Aero from Paul Paddock.

 

[jpetek]

our solution is very special. We do not use normal driver, we use full range driver special design for this speaker on a open front without lobing.

The sensity will be 120 db/w!

regards

Josef

 

[Brett]

The sensity will be 120 db/w!

Seems a tad high, even with 7 drivers. Colour me skeptical.

 

[jpetek]

dear brett,

the designer i am working with is since over 30 years in the business.
He told me this fact.

I dont know.

But this sensity is a problem because you have to found a good amplifer without any noise!

I am sure that 99,9% are not able to driver this speaker. You need only 0,01 w or less.

Josef