Why did you go for the minidsp over the DCX2496 (3 in 6out) for the same money?
Also there's an interesting cheap little dsp box from Thomann that looks good for sub use (I'm considering one myself)
the t.racks DSP 4x4 Mini – Thomann UK
Rob.
That's a good size box! Anywaysm - Learn from my mistakes... KEEP IT SIMPLE, treat it as a learning tool (unless you're already a decent woodworker, in which case sorry for teaching you to suck eggs) and don't try to scrounge random wood because covid19 closed all the shops😀
Good luck!
Mainly as I didn't know that existed! Size would have been an issue, but it's value, that's for sure.
But to be honest, I got enough stick from my ex-studio-guy audiophile-mentor for using the A800 that I'm about one Behringer product away from being disowned, and he's a useful guy to know.
That IS indeed interesting... Apparently it lacks a MacOS program to configure, but.... It's not much more than £70 including shipping. Cool box, ta for posting that, one day it could come in very handy.
Jjams.
Yeah, lots of cheap-but-good dsp stuff about. The thomann gear seems nice enough, IMO the t.racks DSP 206 looks like a better purchase than the DCX2496.
REW is not hard to "learn" just beware that the single most important thing to learn about REW would be to completely ignore the auto-eq stuff.
Just use it for measurements, make multi-point measurements AROUND the listening position, look for general trends like wide-ish dips&peaks adjust for those, measure again, repeat procedure 3-4 times to make sure because sometimes a little adjustment in one place can also make changes at a higher/lower frequency.
Sometimes the auto filters and eq settings over-compensate and waste potential.
REW is not hard to "learn" just beware that the single most important thing to learn about REW would be to completely ignore the auto-eq stuff.
Just use it for measurements, make multi-point measurements AROUND the listening position, look for general trends like wide-ish dips&peaks adjust for those, measure again, repeat procedure 3-4 times to make sure because sometimes a little adjustment in one place can also make changes at a higher/lower frequency.
Sometimes the auto filters and eq settings over-compensate and waste potential.
I've been through 5 DCX's , The last one I bought a few years ago has been good. The rest had the 'frying eggs' problem or random channels dropping out. (the 1st two I bought went back for warranty repair, but were replaced with new units which developed more problems)
I cant fault them on sound quality or ease of use. Hopefully Behringer have improved / fixed the problems of the early models.
So I'm not exactly a DCX fanboy 😀
What makes the t.racks one a better buy ?
Rob.
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A bit of a shame I didn't know about more DSP options, I might've saved a chunk of money on that bit, the most expensive part by far. I just thought "miniDSP, they're the ones that make a programable DSP, i'll get one of them", clenched, paid, and thought no more. I actually bought a regular non-HD 2x4 for half decent money on ebay before realising it doesn't put out line level voltage out the back, but I have another plan for that one so not a total waste (assuming I can ever find it again in this mess).
In other words, keep it simple!
This time I'm going to listen to that advice - I've learned my lesson. Thanks🙂
I've not tried to get it going yet, so far these things have been easy enough to tune in by ear, and the whole room (and house) is getting rearranged soon so no rush to figure it out.
In other words, keep it simple!
This time I'm going to listen to that advice - I've learned my lesson. Thanks🙂
I've not tried to get it going yet, so far these things have been easy enough to tune in by ear, and the whole room (and house) is getting rearranged soon so no rush to figure it out.
The Umik1 from minidsp is well worth getting to use with REW. It makes setting up a lot easier than using separate mic preamps. (I used to use an ECM8000 mic with a separate preamp and am a lot happier with the Umik. (as a bonus it also comes with its own calibration file)
Cheers,
Rob.
Cheers,
Rob.
The original Tannoy Mercury M2/M3s! I had a pair of the M2s they sounded great. With those subs I'm sure yours sound great too 😀
I've got the measurement mic (and cal file) from the dSpeaker Anti-mode which I'd love to make work... We'll see how that goes though.
They sounded great... In 1998!
I never knew any better until a few years ago studio-audiophile mentor played me the system he uses in his van, set up properly in a hotel room (in fact, I blame him for all this mess).
I went home and since have bought two sets of speakers (Q Acoustics 3050 and Monitor Audio Bronze 2) and they both completely kick the backside of those M3's in every area bar bass extension on the Bronze 2 bookshelves - hence the subs build. Those M3's were the cornerstone of my first proper hifi though, and a total bargain, I don't think I could bring myself to sell them. Speakers have moved a long way in 20+ years though! I remember being amazed by them back then, but then even more amazed at how much better a modern £350 pair of 3050's sounded!
The M2s cost £140 back then. The M2s were my first proper pair of speakers too. I think I was 13 or so when I got them!
According to an inflation calculator that's £250 today.
What's changed the most in 20+ years is the software/technology we use to design speakers. That has become a lot more accessible as has the knowledge behind speaker design. That and advances in construction have largely given us more for less, especially with curved cabinets and the like.
According to an inflation calculator that's £250 today.
What's changed the most in 20+ years is the software/technology we use to design speakers. That has become a lot more accessible as has the knowledge behind speaker design. That and advances in construction have largely given us more for less, especially with curved cabinets and the like.
Cool😀
I think I was about 18 when I got my first real speakers, the M3s... I seem to remember auditioning a few stand mounters in my price range (probably the M2 in there somewhere!) but when the floorstanders came out I heard low notes I'd forgot were there. They're not exactly bass monsters but that bit more down there and they came with build in stands - SOLD! I think they were about £200 back then, but memory is fuzzy!
Okay, here goes, insert opinion and bias:
Just the feeling I'm left with after reading both the manuals very thoroughly.
The DCX needs some modding to get the best out of it, the t.racks you sort of have to disconnect the fan for home use, but other than that it I'd probably be happy with it in terms of sound quality. HW iterations have been better on the t.racks after feedback, the DCX have evolved *some* but not nearly enough.
Either way, regardless of price etc, I'd rather get some pro gear than the minidsp stuff. I'm sold on balanced interconnects and neutrik, and the cheap-ish minidsp stuff is "okay"-but-not-awesome, while the top end minidsp stuff is just too pricey.
Behringer do have some products that are decent, but I have trust issues... 😀
You *can* use any kind of half-decent mic for REW, like for instance some mates measurement mic that came with a cheap surround receiver can work just fine (and free). But the Umik1 is some of the best value for money, no hassle, no extra bits, calibrated, you get the correct db levels and EVERYTHING +++
IMO: It's the ultimate no-brainer in SOUND investment 😀
Probably the best purchase I've made, just works.
I'm not sure how much of a post completion post I did on these, but so far they've been great. After a few weeks with them, the only thing they lack is precision upper-mid-bass punch and speed, so Ive got a third driver (peeress XLS-P830452) which I can fandangle my miniDSP to seamlessly integrate slip in as a punchy precise upper-bass driver.
There's power to spare from the A800, meaning I can run the two 4ohm 15's in series, [presenting an 8ohm load a the amp on one channel, I believe) which the A800 should have no trouble with at my levels of volume. The other channel can be the whippy little 10.
And this time - I'M GOING TO KEEP IT SIMPLE!!!
There's power to spare from the A800, meaning I can run the two 4ohm 15's in series, [presenting an 8ohm load a the amp on one channel, I believe) which the A800 should have no trouble with at my levels of volume. The other channel can be the whippy little 10.
And this time - I'M GOING TO KEEP IT SIMPLE!!!
Ps thanks again to everyone on this thread, particularly kafiman going to the trouble of demoing drivers for me, but you're all great😀
Good luck with that 😀
Hope you're going for good o'l ply next time. Ply of some sort is much easier to make a decent finish, no need for several layers of various stuff.
Believe me, i've learned my lesson... And what a lesson it was.
A million other jobs dumped on my head have stopped the audio idiocy, but I can't wait for it to continue...
Ply over MDF? Is this a whole bag of worms I don't want to open? I've had my eye on some 18mm (or maybe the 25mm) MDF from the local huge DIY chain over here. It's only going to be a small sealed box, a couple straight braces inside, paint it up, Done😀
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Regarding Ply vs MDF, in sum I think a fair amount of people here can agree on a few things, overly simplified and very general:
The dust from MDF is a potentially higher health hazard than that of Ply because it contains more glue etc.
Ply looks nice with just some wood oil on it or perhaps varnish + slik-matte clear laquer if you feel like it (personal bias
😀).
MDF soaks paint on the first layer and needs a couple more turns of sanding + coating to get a good and proper finish.
Regarding structural properties it's more or less a draw when you start summing everything up, again very simplified and general:
MDF is heavier and a bit more "damped".
Ply is lighter and a bit stiffer.
Ofcourse void-free BB (Baltic Birch) ply is "the thing", and it is amongst the best types of Ply available to most. But it's a bit pricy, and pending on the build, not hugely important other than aesthethics and peace of mind. Most ply has one good looking side and one less good looking side, and even reasonably priced, but decent quality poplar is quite good and with some varnish + clear coat on there it can be very hard to tell the difference (in both looks and build quality) between that and the expensive stuff.
I've tried a few materials myself (various Ply types and grades, OSB, MDF, particle board), and my vote goes to void-free BB if you got the money, but decent quality poplar is just fine for most small to medium boxes. The rest is more work than it's worth.
OTOH If you're prototyping and KNOW FOR A FACT that the boxes are just temporary, then OSB is fine. Again, making OSB look good: more work than it's worth.
Other than that, if you want to make some baffles for OB then my hottest tip is to look for bits or cuts of oak boards for kitchen countertops in the "discount bin" at the hardware store, or just buy some full length boards if you got serious plans. IMO don't bother with the sand-filled hollow chambers etc, a good quality oak board is far less work and much better if you don't want to worry about all the sand particles compacting and needing a refill.
Yeah, ok, a bit more than I intended but allright.
Conclusion: Get some at least semi-decent quality ply.
The dust from MDF is a potentially higher health hazard than that of Ply because it contains more glue etc.
Ply looks nice with just some wood oil on it or perhaps varnish + slik-matte clear laquer if you feel like it (personal bias
😀). MDF soaks paint on the first layer and needs a couple more turns of sanding + coating to get a good and proper finish.
Regarding structural properties it's more or less a draw when you start summing everything up, again very simplified and general:
MDF is heavier and a bit more "damped".
Ply is lighter and a bit stiffer.
Ofcourse void-free BB (Baltic Birch) ply is "the thing", and it is amongst the best types of Ply available to most. But it's a bit pricy, and pending on the build, not hugely important other than aesthethics and peace of mind. Most ply has one good looking side and one less good looking side, and even reasonably priced, but decent quality poplar is quite good and with some varnish + clear coat on there it can be very hard to tell the difference (in both looks and build quality) between that and the expensive stuff.
I've tried a few materials myself (various Ply types and grades, OSB, MDF, particle board), and my vote goes to void-free BB if you got the money, but decent quality poplar is just fine for most small to medium boxes. The rest is more work than it's worth.
OTOH If you're prototyping and KNOW FOR A FACT that the boxes are just temporary, then OSB is fine. Again, making OSB look good: more work than it's worth.
Other than that, if you want to make some baffles for OB then my hottest tip is to look for bits or cuts of oak boards for kitchen countertops in the "discount bin" at the hardware store, or just buy some full length boards if you got serious plans. IMO don't bother with the sand-filled hollow chambers etc, a good quality oak board is far less work and much better if you don't want to worry about all the sand particles compacting and needing a refill.
Yeah, ok, a bit more than I intended but allright.
Conclusion: Get some at least semi-decent quality ply.
Good ply is really expensive in the UK.
If you can afford it ply is better and a lot nicer to work with. However I'd rather use MDF than cheap (most diy store) ply when budget is a factor.
Rob.
If you can afford it ply is better and a lot nicer to work with. However I'd rather use MDF than cheap (most diy store) ply when budget is a factor.
Rob.
MDF is just fine, and especially if you can get it pre-cut, personally I'd rather avoid cutting up MDF myself.
Poplar ply should be compareable in price though, and 15mm thickness should be enough for reasonably large boxes. The boxes I built earlier this year are about 280-300 liters each, one chamber divider, bracing is "adequate" (but not a whole lot). Made them in 15mm Birch ply but I do not think I'd notice much difference if it was 15mm Poplar.
Poplar ply should be compareable in price though, and 15mm thickness should be enough for reasonably large boxes. The boxes I built earlier this year are about 280-300 liters each, one chamber divider, bracing is "adequate" (but not a whole lot). Made them in 15mm Birch ply but I do not think I'd notice much difference if it was 15mm Poplar.
I'll almost certainly end up using MDF... Like Rob mentions above, good plywood is rather expensive in the UK, so unless something magically plops in my lap, at my level of workmanship i can't justify using quality ply.