Check. 
It'd probably be best to start out with two channels.
This project is actually intended for a friend....but he'd be happy enough with commercial offerings. I was just thinking since he's funding, it'd be a good way for me to be able to experience the UCD sound. Although, after labor invested, I probably would not want to give it up.
It'd probably be best to start out with two channels. This project is actually intended for a friend....but he'd be happy enough with commercial offerings. I was just thinking since he's funding, it'd be a good way for me to be able to experience the UCD sound. Although, after labor invested, I probably would not want to give it up.
So, was $1000 his price, or yours? 🙄
At least with the time you put in so far you haven't lost anything.
At least with the time you put in so far you haven't lost anything.
Hello,
A review on the www.tnt-audio.com of the UcD180AD!
http://www.tnt-audio.com/ampli/udc180_e.html
Regards,
Jan-Peter
A review on the www.tnt-audio.com of the UcD180AD!
http://www.tnt-audio.com/ampli/udc180_e.html
Regards,
Jan-Peter
The TNT review
Jan-Peter,
I noticed that he didn't put names to the rest of his review equipment. His speakers in particular sounded troublesome. I think if he had really good support equipment your review would have been much more positive.
These amps are so revealing that what you are hearing is usually the problems of the other pieces in the system, including cables, power cords, room problems, etc. probably for the first time.
Roger
Jan-Peter,
I noticed that he didn't put names to the rest of his review equipment. His speakers in particular sounded troublesome. I think if he had really good support equipment your review would have been much more positive.
These amps are so revealing that what you are hearing is usually the problems of the other pieces in the system, including cables, power cords, room problems, etc. probably for the first time.
Roger
A very good review. But it does seem like the reviewer might need a speaker upgrade if, over the years, he's never "found the amp that makes them really fly."
From the TNT review:
The sound
As a matter of fact the presentation of sound is quite similar to a good class A amplifier or a single ended triode unit. Something - so to say - very different from the T-Amp, that I'll use as a reference, just because it is another widely known example of new Class-D technology amplifier.
The sound is clear, rather transparent, precise, detailed, with that specific "lucid" presentation typical of triode units.
Low frequencies are well present and controlled, even though perhaps not as much as you would expect from an amplifer with a damping factor of 400. The entire bass range is definitely round and full, pleasant and effective, exactly as it happens with many tubed amp systems.
Mid range is clean and smooth, not especially in evidence, but enough to give voices the correct body and appearance.
High frequencies are open, clear, lucid, really tubey. Given these qualities, the unit does not forgive sources with a "digital" flavour in the sound! In such a case the sound becomes rather "viscid", unnatural and as such unpleasant. Otherwise, it is limpid and smooth.
The soundstage is very wide and precise. No artificial depth seems to have been added, but all the natural depth of the recording is correctly presented. Despite the precision in the instruments portraits and in their positioning, the music, again as in tube units, tends to appear more as a whole than decomposed and dissected in its components as with T-Amp, for example. So the soundstage is very natural, very realistic, and very involving.
The black areas among instruments and players are therefore vibrating with music, instead of being empty like it sometimes happens with the T-Amp. However, a lot of details and ambience informations are transferred to the listener while that strange (T-Ampesque) feeling of shortened sound queues is completely missing.
The sound is always smooth and sweet, even though powerful.
Anyway, while the sound character is in some way similar to the SET's one, the energy delivered to the loudspeakers is a completely different thing: even with my speakers, which in spite of a relatively high sensitivity of 90-91dB are well known to be a difficult load, the power is definitely there, and even though I still have not found the amp that makes them really fly (in facts no one of the amps I tested through the years have been able to fully achieve these result...), I have never heard them getting any closer to the take-off.
Only at exceptionally high levels (really far, far higher than any normal listening level I can imagine of), and in presence of very complicated musical patterns and difficult loads, I have perceived something like an hint of grain. Actually it could have been - perhaps - a trouble in very high frequencies (cymbals, for example) reproduction in the most complex situation, or even early saturation: the listening level was so high that even a 180 watts unit might have been running out of steam...
Conclusions
If you still needed a further proof that amps based on new technologies (Class-D, or Class-T, or also Class-N, everyone seems to have his own private solution, or perhaps just name...) can sound better than traditional ones, here it is.
The UcD180 proved to be a sound, solid device, absolutely stable (no kind of issue throughout all listening sessions), easy to use, able to work under all conditions I tested without any problem.
Complete kits are available (at least through the Italian distributor), but even in case the desired configurations were not available, this should not prevent anyone from building it: most components are available from Hypex or their distributors, and the remaining are not critical at all and are very easy to find. Actually, the most demanding area is for sure the cabinet preparation....
So wrapping up, we have a 180W amp, with that delicate touch of a triode butterfly and the power of a solid state bull, easy to build, very stable, accepting with equal ease both balanced and unbalanced inputs, at a cost that is far away from anything comparable.
True, the low price is partially balanced by the assembling: however if you really do not want to face the trouble of assembling your own unit, please note that you can also find a few UcD based amplifiers on the market (for example, the Channel Island Audio D-200), even though as usual this comes at a (not irrelevant) cost...
In any case, the bottom line is clear: it is really time to get acquainted with Class D.
From the TNT review:
The sound
As a matter of fact the presentation of sound is quite similar to a good class A amplifier or a single ended triode unit. Something - so to say - very different from the T-Amp, that I'll use as a reference, just because it is another widely known example of new Class-D technology amplifier.
The sound is clear, rather transparent, precise, detailed, with that specific "lucid" presentation typical of triode units.
Low frequencies are well present and controlled, even though perhaps not as much as you would expect from an amplifer with a damping factor of 400. The entire bass range is definitely round and full, pleasant and effective, exactly as it happens with many tubed amp systems.
Mid range is clean and smooth, not especially in evidence, but enough to give voices the correct body and appearance.
High frequencies are open, clear, lucid, really tubey. Given these qualities, the unit does not forgive sources with a "digital" flavour in the sound! In such a case the sound becomes rather "viscid", unnatural and as such unpleasant. Otherwise, it is limpid and smooth.
The soundstage is very wide and precise. No artificial depth seems to have been added, but all the natural depth of the recording is correctly presented. Despite the precision in the instruments portraits and in their positioning, the music, again as in tube units, tends to appear more as a whole than decomposed and dissected in its components as with T-Amp, for example. So the soundstage is very natural, very realistic, and very involving.
The black areas among instruments and players are therefore vibrating with music, instead of being empty like it sometimes happens with the T-Amp. However, a lot of details and ambience informations are transferred to the listener while that strange (T-Ampesque) feeling of shortened sound queues is completely missing.
The sound is always smooth and sweet, even though powerful.
Anyway, while the sound character is in some way similar to the SET's one, the energy delivered to the loudspeakers is a completely different thing: even with my speakers, which in spite of a relatively high sensitivity of 90-91dB are well known to be a difficult load, the power is definitely there, and even though I still have not found the amp that makes them really fly (in facts no one of the amps I tested through the years have been able to fully achieve these result...), I have never heard them getting any closer to the take-off.
Only at exceptionally high levels (really far, far higher than any normal listening level I can imagine of), and in presence of very complicated musical patterns and difficult loads, I have perceived something like an hint of grain. Actually it could have been - perhaps - a trouble in very high frequencies (cymbals, for example) reproduction in the most complex situation, or even early saturation: the listening level was so high that even a 180 watts unit might have been running out of steam...
Conclusions
If you still needed a further proof that amps based on new technologies (Class-D, or Class-T, or also Class-N, everyone seems to have his own private solution, or perhaps just name...) can sound better than traditional ones, here it is.
The UcD180 proved to be a sound, solid device, absolutely stable (no kind of issue throughout all listening sessions), easy to use, able to work under all conditions I tested without any problem.
Complete kits are available (at least through the Italian distributor), but even in case the desired configurations were not available, this should not prevent anyone from building it: most components are available from Hypex or their distributors, and the remaining are not critical at all and are very easy to find. Actually, the most demanding area is for sure the cabinet preparation....
So wrapping up, we have a 180W amp, with that delicate touch of a triode butterfly and the power of a solid state bull, easy to build, very stable, accepting with equal ease both balanced and unbalanced inputs, at a cost that is far away from anything comparable.
True, the low price is partially balanced by the assembling: however if you really do not want to face the trouble of assembling your own unit, please note that you can also find a few UcD based amplifiers on the market (for example, the Channel Island Audio D-200), even though as usual this comes at a (not irrelevant) cost...
In any case, the bottom line is clear: it is really time to get acquainted with Class D.
Hi,
Once I have verified that my new UCD180-AD amp is working well I would like to bypass the coupling caps. Could someone point me to a photo or diagram of the most recent UCD180-AD module. It is my understanding that the coupling caps are now after the input opamp. I believe that they sit on either side of the "T" heatsink and just "before" the output devices but I want to be sure.
I have read through the voluminous threads but only found a drawing of the UCD400 and a photo of an older version of the 180.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Best,
Paul
Once I have verified that my new UCD180-AD amp is working well I would like to bypass the coupling caps. Could someone point me to a photo or diagram of the most recent UCD180-AD module. It is my understanding that the coupling caps are now after the input opamp. I believe that they sit on either side of the "T" heatsink and just "before" the output devices but I want to be sure.
I have read through the voluminous threads but only found a drawing of the UCD400 and a photo of an older version of the 180.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Best,
Paul
psu advice
as i slowly close in on building a stereo UCD180 amp, i had a couple
of questions i hope folks here could help with:
1) i plan to use the Hypes softstart module; is there a manual for this?
i downloaded what i could but it is less than clear. in particular, what
current does the switch have to carry, and what kind of bicolour LED
is it expecting?
2) i plan to use some parts left over from previous efforts (including
some lovely 90V 42,000uF caps). i have some (3!!) 600VA bicron
transformers with 48V secondaries; is it plausible to unwrap the plastic
off such a toroidal transformer and reduce the secondaries down to 30V or so?
i suspect i will be reducing the effective VA of the transformer but
i have a lot to spare for this project. any issues with noise or heat?
thanks,
andrew
as i slowly close in on building a stereo UCD180 amp, i had a couple
of questions i hope folks here could help with:
1) i plan to use the Hypes softstart module; is there a manual for this?
i downloaded what i could but it is less than clear. in particular, what
current does the switch have to carry, and what kind of bicolour LED
is it expecting?
2) i plan to use some parts left over from previous efforts (including
some lovely 90V 42,000uF caps). i have some (3!!) 600VA bicron
transformers with 48V secondaries; is it plausible to unwrap the plastic
off such a toroidal transformer and reduce the secondaries down to 30V or so?
i suspect i will be reducing the effective VA of the transformer but
i have a lot to spare for this project. any issues with noise or heat?
thanks,
andrew
Mourip:
I think you are talking about the only caps that must not be removed to prevent HF ringing:
I think you are talking about the only caps that must not be removed to prevent HF ringing:
Sorry, the image didn't show:
PLease refer to post #874 wich is Chris' answer to caps swap:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=867802#post867802
Andrew:
Quote: is it plausible to unwrap the plastic
off such a toroidal transformer and reduce the secondaries down to 30V or so?
i suspect i will be reducing the effective VA of the transformer but
i have a lot to spare for this project. any issues with noise or heat? End Quote.
I believe it's possible but risky. Ask an expert better.
You probably will end with much more current. I think VA rating has to do with core mass instead.
Good luck to both.
M 🙂
PLease refer to post #874 wich is Chris' answer to caps swap:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=867802#post867802
Andrew:
Quote: is it plausible to unwrap the plastic
off such a toroidal transformer and reduce the secondaries down to 30V or so?
i suspect i will be reducing the effective VA of the transformer but
i have a lot to spare for this project. any issues with noise or heat? End Quote.
I believe it's possible but risky. Ask an expert better.
You probably will end with much more current. I think VA rating has to do with core mass instead.
Good luck to both.
M 🙂
Transformer question
Yes the size of the core determines the power and little else. Most all manufactures use the same core material so this is a constant.
Windings can be removed to lower voltage but how do you get to the second half of the split secondary? You would have to almost completely unwind/rewind it and you can't do the job a machine originally did so probably will not be able to get it rewound.
Even if you could do this it is certainly not worth the time and effort. I know as I have tried it myself and it was a lost cause. However I have successfully added separate windings to get an additional low voltage secondary. This doesn’t take too many turns as they are usually ½ volt per turn for some reason.
Roger
Yes the size of the core determines the power and little else. Most all manufactures use the same core material so this is a constant.
Windings can be removed to lower voltage but how do you get to the second half of the split secondary? You would have to almost completely unwind/rewind it and you can't do the job a machine originally did so probably will not be able to get it rewound.
Even if you could do this it is certainly not worth the time and effort. I know as I have tried it myself and it was a lost cause. However I have successfully added separate windings to get an additional low voltage secondary. This doesn’t take too many turns as they are usually ½ volt per turn for some reason.
Roger
maxlorenz said:
Thanks for the reply and the image. Yes. You are right and I see which ones to bypass now. Much easier to get to!
Best,
Paul
Does anybody have experience comparing the UCD 180 modules and other high power "Class T" amps like this one http://www.audiodigit.com/index.php?section=80?
I'd really like to know how they compare.
I'd really like to know how they compare.
maxlorenz said:
Your timing is perfect. Since my amp is up and running and I know that all the parts are good and what the basic sound is I am now just about ready to start tweaking. As I thought about replacing those two caps the thought came to my mind "Why two per channel." Since I have never built an amp with a balanced input is that the reason? Does the balanced circuitry require two coupling caps in places where an unbalanced amps would only require one?
Thanks a lot,
Paul
"Does the balanced circuitry require two coupling caps in places where an unbalanced amps would only require one?"
Pretty much
Pretty much
Is the DC Offset pot coming to the UcD180?
I don't know what this transistor does.
I have a related question. On the modulator daughterboard for my UcD400s (made in April) I have the new DC offset potentiometers.
The UcD180s I received in the same shipment were made in February and do not have the DC offset pot. It would be nice to know if and when they will become available on the UcD180. If the daughterboard is really on sockets then can we buy a new modulator board if the DC offset becomes a problem?
I have heard that DC offset problems can occur after shorting the on-board input caps with the AD opamps even when using external input caps.
Guy
I don't know what this transistor does.
I have a related question. On the modulator daughterboard for my UcD400s (made in April) I have the new DC offset potentiometers.
The UcD180s I received in the same shipment were made in February and do not have the DC offset pot. It would be nice to know if and when they will become available on the UcD180. If the daughterboard is really on sockets then can we buy a new modulator board if the DC offset becomes a problem?
I have heard that DC offset problems can occur after shorting the on-board input caps with the AD opamps even when using external input caps.
Guy
To answer my own question:
Hypex product support told me that there is no current plan or date to get the DC offset pots on the UcD180. I think they want to keep the cost of the entry level module down.
They don't sell the modulator daughterboards separately (I guess we already knew that).
Guy
Hypex product support told me that there is no current plan or date to get the DC offset pots on the UcD180. I think they want to keep the cost of the entry level module down.
They don't sell the modulator daughterboards separately (I guess we already knew that).
Guy