classd4sure said:
Yes, i feel also that CT101 is bit too pricey. I do not remember what op-amp they use but other compents must not be cost many $, even when there is some SMD:s on the other side of the pcb.
Anyway, because i have dact steped attenuator, it will be interesting and easy to try these. Do you know what is the gain of the UCD input stage?
I have LC-audio regulator and maybe i will try it if/when i have time.
Hi Pasi,
Something like 4.5 or 5. Aside from the high cost it would be nice if they gave a few graphs ..
Lookin forward to your results.
Regards,
Chris
Something like 4.5 or 5. Aside from the high cost it would be nice if they gave a few graphs ..
Lookin forward to your results.
Regards,
Chris
classd4sure said:
Agree. And i suppose quality of the UCD AD input buffer itself is quite good. So trying separate supply is in first priority.
classd4sure said:Hi,
I'd imagine they all come with them now, no kidding, I'm bitting my words here, trying hard too! Um, anyway, there's a few other things different on the latest modules as well which would also affect the sound, like the change of filter caps, so a direct A/B with one wouldn't tell the full story on that mod in particular.
Digikey deals with the UK don't they? I know they have the CRD which JP recommended and I'd think it must be better than the formelly mentioned J511.
"The common now join together at the psu boards and just a single ground wire from each of them goes to each of the UCD modules
Out of interest I did try to connect the now single common of each of the psu boards together but it was better when they was separate
I know I said it twice already but thanks"
That's awesome, thank you. I'm a tad confused by that though, I guess you tried connecting the commons at the modules as well as at the PCU? The point is both to force them to share the same reference, for which I tap the common at a single point, like in the middle of that common link, otherwise it kills the soundstage, and also to not form any loops, or any big ones, which will modulate the reference and muddy things up.
That common reference point should also be as clean as possible. Even more importantly it should be at the input stage only.
Therefore, I'd think fully isolated from one another would be even better, as well as floating from the chassis/ earth, with the only common point they share being a single one formed where the shields earth to the chassis where you'd connect your signal grounds. If you try that you'd probably bewith a little
So, what kind of change did you perceive with just that little change at the cost of a wire or two? Was it a little one? Big one? Has it become musical? What happened to the soundstage?
That's the real question 🙂
"I'll try the DC filter later, my transformers are dead silent, no buz etc which according to from what I've read means I don't have a DC problem with the torroidals but I'll try it anyway"
Cool! You likely do have some DC on your line, having no buzz just means you've a good transformer or it's not high enough to affect it in an obvious manner. My transformer doesn't buz either but DC is rather high. It's got mu metal wrapping and an epoxy filled center. I've little doubt removing the DC would improve the sound though, looking forward to your results.
Regards,
Chris
I did try connecting both the modules and the psu grounds and then just the psu's and just the modules, its either me but in each case it sounded slightly different, I'd say mainly the highs.
Having the modules and psu commons separate did have better bass timing though and that was noticeable, the only thing is its still not inside a case so no doubt everything will be different again once its all fitted😀
The poor thing currently looks like a birds nest sat on a piece of wood but I was hoping I could at least get an idea what setup would be better first .
Something else I found interesting was trying to disconnect one of the transformers and run both psu's and modules from a single transformer, then remove one psu board so both modules are ran from a single tranny and psu board
In my case giving the modules their own separate transformer and psu board was much better, again it was the bass timing, infact I'm really happy with the bass, the highs now sound more open since playing about with grounds but theres still that signature in the mids, I'm hoping the current regulators will help on the AD8620 output
I'm still going to try the DC filter, thing is can I use a pair for both transformers or do I have to make a pair for each
Oh, and then theres that 680nf cap to play about with
Hi,
Pasi, I'm in full agreement with you there as well.
t.
I think your work has helped demonstrate the importance of wiring, and a little experimentation.
In my case running two amps off a single supply it was entirely a make it or break it type of deal, though it did sound very good in its original form, it had a long way to go to bring out what the UCD is truly capable of. I still feel I'm half tapping it, I know it can go much further, but cost is now the issue.
Out of that I'd hoped it would no longer have the "tired" feel to it for you. That's what I really found shocking, to have a known good amp be "bad" or "tiring" because of a single wire... wow.
I've found this also extends to every other wire, it doesn't stop at the ground only. There's a number of areas one can really screw up, the amp will still work, there won't be any smoke, it'll sound better than most junk, but probably 1/50 as good as it could.
Good question regarding the DC filter. I think you can easily try using just one. Two may be an improvement, but if they both plug into the same branch.... I can't see it making that much of a difference. Were you to use an iso transformer, it would likely be just one?
Regards,
Chris
Pasi, I'm in full agreement with you there as well.
t.
I think your work has helped demonstrate the importance of wiring, and a little experimentation.
In my case running two amps off a single supply it was entirely a make it or break it type of deal, though it did sound very good in its original form, it had a long way to go to bring out what the UCD is truly capable of. I still feel I'm half tapping it, I know it can go much further, but cost is now the issue.
Out of that I'd hoped it would no longer have the "tired" feel to it for you. That's what I really found shocking, to have a known good amp be "bad" or "tiring" because of a single wire... wow.
I've found this also extends to every other wire, it doesn't stop at the ground only. There's a number of areas one can really screw up, the amp will still work, there won't be any smoke, it'll sound better than most junk, but probably 1/50 as good as it could.
Good question regarding the DC filter. I think you can easily try using just one. Two may be an improvement, but if they both plug into the same branch.... I can't see it making that much of a difference. Were you to use an iso transformer, it would likely be just one?
Regards,
Chris
Hi:
More on DC filters. One of my filters has just the same DC filter that T. posted. Two diodes plus a Elcap in parallel on each rail.
I think they work. The units powered don't hum, but surelly other pairs of ears are needed to say if there is an improvement in overall sound. I would say yes but could be wrong. The problem is that I usually make many tweaks at the same time 🙁 Not very methodic I'm affraid. It's a neurotic trait.
My proposed filter would be: DC filter->iso TX-> adaptation of Welbourne's "Gatekeeper" wich has only one X1 cap, two Y caps and a shotgun type inductor of a special material (without counting the MOV's) that doesn't limit current. Very cheap. I will try to post it today.
Who knows, maybe all we need is the DC filter plus Iso Tx.
Like I said, I don't imagine powering my units "from the wall" any more.
Chris, the Tx that I mentioned is 220 to 120VAC so can't be used to power the UCD's (unless I want a UCD60 or something like that 😀 ).
PasiP:
Concerning the LC Audio reg, for that money you can build an ALWSR I supose. In the last groupbuy Andy asked 3 UKP for bare PCB's and +/-9 UKP for AD825-PCB's! Maybe he has some spare.
If one has a stereo amp I think the price is not so high but for monoblocks you need 4 of them.
My DAC+ 5V ALWSR is sounding very good now as time (and current) passes by. 😉 Unfortunatelly I only have 2 more PCB's 🙁
When I modded the DAC's 5V PS I made a mistake
making a half wave rectification. The system made big, variable humming when the microwave oven or the water heater were used in the kitchen, wich is supposed to be on a different isolated mains circuit 
Making full wave rectification returned everything to complete silence 😀
Ah! there's so much that I don't know!
Kind regards
Mauricio
More on DC filters. One of my filters has just the same DC filter that T. posted. Two diodes plus a Elcap in parallel on each rail.
I think they work. The units powered don't hum, but surelly other pairs of ears are needed to say if there is an improvement in overall sound. I would say yes but could be wrong. The problem is that I usually make many tweaks at the same time 🙁 Not very methodic I'm affraid. It's a neurotic trait.
My proposed filter would be: DC filter->iso TX-> adaptation of Welbourne's "Gatekeeper" wich has only one X1 cap, two Y caps and a shotgun type inductor of a special material (without counting the MOV's) that doesn't limit current. Very cheap. I will try to post it today.
Who knows, maybe all we need is the DC filter plus Iso Tx.
Like I said, I don't imagine powering my units "from the wall" any more.
Chris, the Tx that I mentioned is 220 to 120VAC so can't be used to power the UCD's (unless I want a UCD60 or something like that 😀 ).
PasiP:
Concerning the LC Audio reg, for that money you can build an ALWSR I supose. In the last groupbuy Andy asked 3 UKP for bare PCB's and +/-9 UKP for AD825-PCB's! Maybe he has some spare.
If one has a stereo amp I think the price is not so high but for monoblocks you need 4 of them.
My DAC+ 5V ALWSR is sounding very good now as time (and current) passes by. 😉 Unfortunatelly I only have 2 more PCB's 🙁
When I modded the DAC's 5V PS I made a mistake
making a half wave rectification. The system made big, variable humming when the microwave oven or the water heater were used in the kitchen, wich is supposed to be on a different isolated mains circuit Making full wave rectification returned everything to complete silence 😀
Ah! there's so much that I don't know!
Kind regards
Mauricio
maxlorenz said:
you don't have dual primaries on your transformer? Many do - then you just pretend you are in the US 🙂
And watch out - Chris will call you to order: can't go around and proposing the use of expensive "paper weight" isolation transformers - people may think you have to spend money on this hobby stuff
I tried the DC filters, I used what parts I've got,
2 x Panasonic FC 8200uf 16v
4 x 1n5404
1 x 220nf mkp X rated cap
1 x transient Suppressor 250VAC
didn't have any of those HF chokes
Well there is a difference in the sound, the bass sounds slower, a bit thicker😕
I removed that film cap going across L/N, the bass is nice and tight again there is still a difference but its hard to say what exactly for sure, I'll listen to it for a bit longer
Regarding the CRDs I'll let you all know how they compare as soon as I can get my hands on some🙂
2 x Panasonic FC 8200uf 16v
4 x 1n5404
1 x 220nf mkp X rated cap
1 x transient Suppressor 250VAC
didn't have any of those HF chokes
Well there is a difference in the sound, the bass sounds slower, a bit thicker😕
I removed that film cap going across L/N, the bass is nice and tight again
there is still a difference but its hard to say what exactly for sure, I'll listen to it for a bit longerRegarding the CRDs I'll let you all know how they compare as soon as I can get my hands on some🙂
Mauricio,
Thanks for the tip of ALWSR. Looks impressive.
Do you know what is max. output current ?
Thanks for the tip of ALWSR. Looks impressive.
Do you know what is max. output current ?
Hi:
I posted my proposed version of a AC-DC filter/ surge protection:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=802722#post802722
I hope someone will try it before myself 😀
Yes, or LT1086, around 1-1.5 A, but I think it will be more comfortable with 300-500mA.
What, do you want this for an amp?
I think I remember Peranders is trying to make a high current reg.
t.:
The filter slam will be limited by the choice of diodes, the type of inductor, the gauge of the wire, but that you know already
I will try to adapt a couple of 35A rectifier bridges instead of using discrete diodes.
Let some current pass through the parts and soldering before judging.
Happy new year party! 😀
Mauricio
I posted my proposed version of a AC-DC filter/ surge protection:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=802722#post802722
I hope someone will try it before myself 😀
Yes, or LT1086, around 1-1.5 A, but I think it will be more comfortable with 300-500mA.
What, do you want this for an amp?
I think I remember Peranders is trying to make a high current reg.
t.:
The filter slam will be limited by the choice of diodes, the type of inductor, the gauge of the wire, but that you know already
I will try to adapt a couple of 35A rectifier bridges instead of using discrete diodes.
Let some current pass through the parts and soldering before judging.
Happy new year party! 😀
Mauricio
Hi,
Mauricio, Y caps = bad, remember in the UCD180 thread? Your proposal sounds like everything but the kitchen sink, that's throwing alot in the signal path, sometimes less is more.
Regarding Peranders' regulators, quality seems excellent, the prices are _highly_ restrictive, I guess that makes Peter in for a dozen.
Peter, a rather boorish comment. I guess you missed my point entirely, as I did your humor. It's abundantly clear to me that for you this "hobby stuff" is all about lavish spending. You've managed to make that much obvious by your UCD700's that you got for your 150W speakers to the unethical (in my view) picture of them which you couldn't post fast enough.
For some it's more about getting the most out of what you can afford to spend, instead of spending all you can and then trying to get the most out of it. For instance maybe if you sold those ISO transformers, used a much lower cost circuit that accomplishes the same (if done well), you could afford your "optimal" transformer solution, which is all seperates and not aux windings. So please do excuse me should my philosophy happen to cramp your style, and in return, I'll be sure not to grace your showcase.
T.
What Mauricio said, I'd be real tempted to use some rather potent dual FRED power rectifiers here.
Cheers,
Chris
Mauricio, Y caps = bad, remember in the UCD180 thread? Your proposal sounds like everything but the kitchen sink, that's throwing alot in the signal path, sometimes less is more.
Regarding Peranders' regulators, quality seems excellent, the prices are _highly_ restrictive, I guess that makes Peter in for a dozen.
And watch out - Chris will call you to order: can't go around and proposing the use of expensive "paper weight" isolation transformers - people may think you have to spend money on this hobby stuff
Peter, a rather boorish comment. I guess you missed my point entirely, as I did your humor. It's abundantly clear to me that for you this "hobby stuff" is all about lavish spending. You've managed to make that much obvious by your UCD700's that you got for your 150W speakers to the unethical (in my view) picture of them which you couldn't post fast enough.
For some it's more about getting the most out of what you can afford to spend, instead of spending all you can and then trying to get the most out of it. For instance maybe if you sold those ISO transformers, used a much lower cost circuit that accomplishes the same (if done well), you could afford your "optimal" transformer solution, which is all seperates and not aux windings. So please do excuse me should my philosophy happen to cramp your style, and in return, I'll be sure not to grace your showcase.
T.
What Mauricio said, I'd be real tempted to use some rather potent dual FRED power rectifiers here.
Cheers,
Chris
Ok guys, I'll try some bigger diodes for the DC filter, I didn't have any suitable inductors either so I'll see what I can find, I'm wanting to try all possible mods before these things go in a case
Regarding the ALWSR's I've got enough of these spare to do each UCD module but I might not bother to be honest, I'll try the SSt511's first on the AD8620's output and then may try some diy LM317/337,TL431 boards later, these are more compact and have the +/- regs,rectification etc on a single board so would save more space
The Holden and Fisher Toroidals which I use to power the UCD's also have 18v secondarys spare which I can use🙂
Don't suppose anybody knows a good diy discrete folded cascode op-amp circuit that would be suitable for the UCD's😀
The UCD700 do look great but would be way overkill regarding power for me, I was actually going to get the UCD400 but listening to the 180 even these are enough, my 40w classA tube amp can easily fill my room with sound
Anyway the UCD180's gives me more options regarding its PSU😉
Regarding the ALWSR's I've got enough of these spare to do each UCD module but I might not bother to be honest, I'll try the SSt511's first on the AD8620's output and then may try some diy LM317/337,TL431 boards later, these are more compact and have the +/- regs,rectification etc on a single board so would save more space
The Holden and Fisher Toroidals which I use to power the UCD's also have 18v secondarys spare which I can use🙂
Don't suppose anybody knows a good diy discrete folded cascode op-amp circuit that would be suitable for the UCD's😀
The UCD700 do look great but would be way overkill regarding power for me, I was actually going to get the UCD400 but listening to the 180 even these are enough, my 40w classA tube amp can easily fill my room with sound
Anyway the UCD180's gives me more options regarding its PSU😉
Dear Chris:
Thanks for pointing this out. I don't remember the quote about Y caps but I will search. In fact, original filter has only one Y cap.
I fully agree with your "less is more " principle.
The filter is not that much crowded and the idea is to listen and try simplified versions afterwards to evaluate if we are not overdoing.
Throwing a lot in the signal path? I thought we were getting rid of noise to ground. Please explain.
Well, ALWSR are not that pricey. Like everything, when a mod takes you to another level you soon forget about $ 😉
You're welcome. After profiting our forum mate's knowledge for a couple of years I thought I should contribute humbly whit it. Of course it is not my creation but I feel proud anyway. I was hopping for more feedback, like Chris', to improve performance.
Regarding current limiting, I powered a pair of 100W class A amps without shame. 😎
I will start to take of parts and see (listen)
Regards
M
Thanks for pointing this out. I don't remember the quote about Y caps but I will search. In fact, original filter has only one Y cap.
I fully agree with your "less is more " principle.
The filter is not that much crowded and the idea is to listen and try simplified versions afterwards to evaluate if we are not overdoing.
Throwing a lot in the signal path? I thought we were getting rid of noise to ground.
Please explain. Well, ALWSR are not that pricey. Like everything, when a mod takes you to another level you soon forget about $ 😉
You're welcome. After profiting our forum mate's knowledge for a couple of years I thought I should contribute humbly whit it. Of course it is not my creation but I feel proud anyway. I was hopping for more feedback, like Chris', to improve performance.
Regarding current limiting, I powered a pair of 100W class A amps without shame. 😎
I will start to take of parts and see (listen)
Regards
M
maxlorenz said:
I plan to use ps. (also) in Linkwitz Orions filter and should be capable of 330 mA. So seems that no broblem with that 🙂
I've used the ALWSR's in various equipment like pre-amps,cdp's dacs etc and they can produce excellent results
Just be careful with the amount of capacitance and very low ESR types on the outputs😉 these are another thing where you have to be careful with the grounding but get it all right and they are wonderful
I just realized I was only using a bog standard mains lead with the UCD180 so I've just swapped it for a diy one using Belden 83753😱
so much for mains leads not making a difference 😀
I also just tried the other psu boards which are exactly the same as the ones I was currently using with BHC ALP20's but they used Samwha audiogrades
The ALP20's are much better IMO, I wish I had the cash for those big BG's
Just be careful with the amount of capacitance and very low ESR types on the outputs😉 these are another thing where you have to be careful with the grounding but get it all right and they are wonderful
I just realized I was only using a bog standard mains lead with the UCD180 so I've just swapped it for a diy one using Belden 83753😱
so much for mains leads not making a difference 😀
I also just tried the other psu boards which are exactly the same as the ones I was currently using with BHC ALP20's but they used Samwha audiogrades
The ALP20's are much better IMO, I wish I had the cash for those big BG's
I've just noticed something, the output coils on the UCD's are getting fairly warm almost hot, is this normal? I never checked this before
The music is playing very low in the background, the T heatsink is only warm and its bolted to a piece of aluminium
Is this anything to be concerned about?
Cheers,
Leo
The music is playing very low in the background, the T heatsink is only warm and its bolted to a piece of aluminium
Is this anything to be concerned about?
Cheers,
Leo
t. said:
i remember reading several times through various threads bruno or jan-peter saying the output coil needed proper ventilation because it does get warm. so, i would say its normal. ive never felt mine, but its been said they get warm.
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