hi,
i recently 'inherited' a stack of like a thousand records. these records are vinal records, not CDs. they are the large diameter ones.
i also inherited a early 1980's yamaha turntable that i was told was very high quality when it was new. so since some of the titles of the records i have are interesting i would like to play them.
i removed a RIAA board from a receiver that was dead that i had laying around, connected the input of the RIAA to the turntable and the out to a preamp/line level in.
it played music. however, there is a distinct problem going on with the treble. it sounds scratchy and distorted, even at low volumes. i have tried the same turntable on three different receivers (hence 3 diffrent riaa boards) and got the same results so im assuming the problem is with the turntable.
i asked my dad who grew up with these things and he said to check fo dust on the needle and sure enough, there was a little dust bunny hanging on the tip of the needle. removing this made a noticible difference, but the scratchiness in the treble remains. the effect is especially pronounced with peaks in the program material, such as a guy singing loud, regardless of what the listening volume is.
so my questions i hope someone will kindly answer for me are:
are these the symptoms of a bad needle/stylis, bad cartridge or both? or is there something else going on?
would really like to fix this, turntable sound is really nice when its working correctly and i have a lot of good titles on vinyl here i'd like to play.
many thanks for reading and kind regards.
i recently 'inherited' a stack of like a thousand records. these records are vinal records, not CDs. they are the large diameter ones.
i also inherited a early 1980's yamaha turntable that i was told was very high quality when it was new. so since some of the titles of the records i have are interesting i would like to play them.
i removed a RIAA board from a receiver that was dead that i had laying around, connected the input of the RIAA to the turntable and the out to a preamp/line level in.
it played music. however, there is a distinct problem going on with the treble. it sounds scratchy and distorted, even at low volumes. i have tried the same turntable on three different receivers (hence 3 diffrent riaa boards) and got the same results so im assuming the problem is with the turntable.
i asked my dad who grew up with these things and he said to check fo dust on the needle and sure enough, there was a little dust bunny hanging on the tip of the needle. removing this made a noticible difference, but the scratchiness in the treble remains. the effect is especially pronounced with peaks in the program material, such as a guy singing loud, regardless of what the listening volume is.
so my questions i hope someone will kindly answer for me are:
are these the symptoms of a bad needle/stylis, bad cartridge or both? or is there something else going on?
would really like to fix this, turntable sound is really nice when its working correctly and i have a lot of good titles on vinyl here i'd like to play.
many thanks for reading and kind regards.
oh yeah there are two controls on this turntable. one is just a switch that says "45" on one end and "33" on the other. i have learned from experience that "33" is the correct setting! the other one is called 'anti skating' and have no idea what this is but tweaking it had no discernible effects on sound.
Antiskating will be set acording to tracking weight, but its not super important right now.
How adjustable is the arm? There could be a cartridge mounting issue, or a ruined stylus.
Personaly, i would replace the cartridge, dont risk the records playing them with an unknown stylus.
Fit the new cat as per the manufacturers recomendations and see how things are then.
How adjustable is the arm? There could be a cartridge mounting issue, or a ruined stylus.
Personaly, i would replace the cartridge, dont risk the records playing them with an unknown stylus.
Fit the new cat as per the manufacturers recomendations and see how things are then.
hi graeme uk,
yes i think i will go ahead and replace the stylus and cartridge. how hard a job is that for someone who's never fixed turntables before?
also anyone know of any good reputable places online that sell stylus and cartridges?
thanks.
yes i think i will go ahead and replace the stylus and cartridge. how hard a job is that for someone who's never fixed turntables before?
also anyone know of any good reputable places online that sell stylus and cartridges?
thanks.
Its easy.
2 small screw head bolts and 4 little tags. Just be carefull.
Cant suggest any retailers over there but i'd opt for a cheap audio technica or ortophon. About £30 in england.
2 small screw head bolts and 4 little tags. Just be carefull.
Cant suggest any retailers over there but i'd opt for a cheap audio technica or ortophon. About £30 in england.
hey thanks, yeah sounds easy enough. it doesn't need to be recalibrated or realigined or anything after i put the new needle/cartridge, does it?
also i found a dealer for the ortophon cartridges you recommend but they are not listed by turntable ... they have names like:
Ortofon 2M Blue phono cartridge
Ortofon 2M Bronze phono cartridge
Ortofon 2M Red phono cartridge
Ortofon MC1 MC 1 Turbo phono cartridge - High Output Moving Coil
etc etc etc.
how do i know which one works in my turntable, or do they fit all turntables? also when you order a cartridge does it come with the stylus or do you order both separately?
thanks for helping, would love to get this sounding good cuz i think turntables are really cool and some of these records i have are like classics. again, much appreciation for any replies.
also i found a dealer for the ortophon cartridges you recommend but they are not listed by turntable ... they have names like:
Ortofon 2M Blue phono cartridge
Ortofon 2M Bronze phono cartridge
Ortofon 2M Red phono cartridge
Ortofon MC1 MC 1 Turbo phono cartridge - High Output Moving Coil
etc etc etc.
how do i know which one works in my turntable, or do they fit all turntables? also when you order a cartridge does it come with the stylus or do you order both separately?
thanks for helping, would love to get this sounding good cuz i think turntables are really cool and some of these records i have are like classics. again, much appreciation for any replies.
come on, you expect me to believe the folks on this forum 'Analog' haven't dealt with replacement of cartridges and stylus in turntables?!?!?! why are you all so quiet? talk to me. i already stated i love turntables even though i grew up in CD/ipod times i feel turntables offer sound quality some digital tech cant or doesn't deliver.
talk to me!
talk to me!
gain said:
I'm sure most folks in the analogue section have been setting up cartridges since you were in diapers, but you need to provide a little more info to get the right advice. Perhaps, if you could state just what "1980's Yamaha" turntable you have and what cartridge is on it, people would be more able to help.
If your cartridge is a common brand moving magnet type, you may still be able to get a new stylus for it, which is a no-tool operation to replace. Replacing the entire cartridge is a more delicate operation, requiring proper alignment and tracking force gauges.
You may want to post a photo of the tonearm, as they are often not labeled as to what make they are. If it is a truly high end table, it likely has an after market arm which may be particularly suited/unsuited for any new cartridges you are considering (ie high vs. low compliance).
maxro said:
sure. before my parents were in diapers actually. but this is an audio forum, so no more talk of diapers and such 🙂
maxro said:
fair enough.
make: yamaha
model: P-200
desc: turntable - plays well except cetain parts of certain tracks.
can someone provide how to read the data off my cartridge and then i report what type it is.
maxro said:
i will post a photo asap. have battery situation now.
Give us both.
Carts are universal 99% of the time.
The cart will need aligning but its not hard, the carts instructions will tell you how.
Carts come with the stylus assembly
The ortophon 2m's are good but if your just starting to play with these things maybe get something a little cheaper, just to see how you get on with it. Just get a cheap cart from a decent manufacturer. Thats why i suggested audio technica or ortophon as there budget carts are ok.
Ill see if i can find some links.
Carts are universal 99% of the time.
The cart will need aligning but its not hard, the carts instructions will tell you how.
Carts come with the stylus assembly
The ortophon 2m's are good but if your just starting to play with these things maybe get something a little cheaper, just to see how you get on with it. Just get a cheap cart from a decent manufacturer. Thats why i suggested audio technica or ortophon as there budget carts are ok.
Ill see if i can find some links.
bit of info
http://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=LG&Category_Code=OPC
decent budget audio technica
http://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/mer...Code=LG&Product_Code=ATC110E&Category_Code=A3
Hmmm... seems the ortophon i was thinking of (510mkii) has been discontiued?
Lots more to choose from on that site. Dont know what there reputation/prices are like though but it gives you an idea.
http://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=LG&Category_Code=OPC
decent budget audio technica
http://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/mer...Code=LG&Product_Code=ATC110E&Category_Code=A3
Hmmm... seems the ortophon i was thinking of (510mkii) has been discontiued?
Lots more to choose from on that site. Dont know what there reputation/prices are like though but it gives you an idea.
gain said:
It wasn't anywhere near "very high qulaity" when new and it's worth 20-30 bucks today but you can probably find a better one in a dumpster. If you think it will beat reasonably good quality lossless digital you are mistaken. It is quite certain that the cartridge stylus/suspension are shot and you need a new cart. It will have to be a reasonably high compliance moving magnet to match both the arm and your phono pre.
Re: Re: turntable question
to all, many thanks for your replies. should have pics uploaded today. can anyone recommend good cart/stylus dealers here in the states?
to analog_sa,
oh really? humm, i didn't realize you where around to listen to it when it was new. were you having relations with my pre-teen cousin at that time or something? only way for you to have heard that turntable and judged it, "very high quality" or not when it was new.
i'm not convinced. kindly post a video or pic of yourself in a dumpster holding up a better quality turntable, please. this will put non believers to shame and force them to submit to your divine judgments when they are presented with the evidence of you covered head to toe in dumpster slime holding up a 'better' turntable than mine! heck, maybe you could write a dumpster-diving for turntables how-to guide? diy audio members would love you for it.
you are comparing apples and oranges here my friend. do you realize that?
i am planning to replace the stylus and cart so hopefully this will no longer be an issue.
thanks.
to all, many thanks for your replies. should have pics uploaded today. can anyone recommend good cart/stylus dealers here in the states?
to analog_sa,
analog_sa said:
oh really? humm, i didn't realize you where around to listen to it when it was new. were you having relations with my pre-teen cousin at that time or something? only way for you to have heard that turntable and judged it, "very high quality" or not when it was new.
analog_sa said:
i'm not convinced. kindly post a video or pic of yourself in a dumpster holding up a better quality turntable, please. this will put non believers to shame and force them to submit to your divine judgments when they are presented with the evidence of you covered head to toe in dumpster slime holding up a 'better' turntable than mine! heck, maybe you could write a dumpster-diving for turntables how-to guide? diy audio members would love you for it.
analog_sa said:
you are comparing apples and oranges here my friend. do you realize that?
analog_sa said:
i am planning to replace the stylus and cart so hopefully this will no longer be an issue.
thanks.
Re: Re: Re: turntable question
gain,
Since the advent of mass production and interchangeable parts, one can assume that the TT in question will probably sound nearly (exactly?) the same as one that Mr. analog_sa has heard. While you may not be aware of the differences in turntable quality, they are real and Yamaha never had a reputation for high quality TTs, although their electronics were generally a cut above the average. Your remarks were uncalled for and you need to apologize, if you expect to have people take their time to help you.
Again, your lack of knowledge and general inexperience in the terminology of audio forums, coupled with a lack of courtesy is showing. If you seek information gleaned by years of experience and a lot of trial and error experimentation, then it is necessary for you to show some respect for those that have done the work before you. If you think everyone here has waited with anticipation for your arrival, I can assure you that this is not the case and it will be very easy to ignore all your posts in the future.
I suggest that you post another response to analog_sa, only this time with well mannered questions and remarks. It can only benefit you immensely to make this a habit in all dealing with other people on or off these forums. Your willingness to be a part of the community will certainly be judged by your response.
You're Welcome.
TerryO
gain,
Since the advent of mass production and interchangeable parts, one can assume that the TT in question will probably sound nearly (exactly?) the same as one that Mr. analog_sa has heard. While you may not be aware of the differences in turntable quality, they are real and Yamaha never had a reputation for high quality TTs, although their electronics were generally a cut above the average. Your remarks were uncalled for and you need to apologize, if you expect to have people take their time to help you.
Again, your lack of knowledge and general inexperience in the terminology of audio forums, coupled with a lack of courtesy is showing. If you seek information gleaned by years of experience and a lot of trial and error experimentation, then it is necessary for you to show some respect for those that have done the work before you. If you think everyone here has waited with anticipation for your arrival, I can assure you that this is not the case and it will be very easy to ignore all your posts in the future.
I suggest that you post another response to analog_sa, only this time with well mannered questions and remarks. It can only benefit you immensely to make this a habit in all dealing with other people on or off these forums. Your willingness to be a part of the community will certainly be judged by your response.
You're Welcome.
TerryO
Re: Re: Re: Re: turntable question
imho it was uncalled for, rude and ignorant for someone to call something they have never seen or heard as being equal to the quality of dumpster items (aka trash). this behavior on analog_sa's part was insulting and unacceptable to me. i will NEVER apologize for defending myself from an uncalled for and unprovoked attack, regardless if i get any more help on this forum or not.
i show respect to everyone and anyone until they disrespect me. have you seen me disrespect any posters who actually offered quality advise in a polite and respectful manner? no way.
translation? is that some sort of patronizing threat?
dear analog_sa,
i regret we got off on the wrong foot. lets please put this behind us and move on to better times. i respect your expertise and experience, and would be very appreciative to learn from you about turntables. could kindly tell me,
- what is a good way to find a replacement cartridge, needle for yamaha T-200?
- after i install cartridge/needle, do i need to take the TT to a stereo guy to have it realigned or reset or something.
thank you for your time and have a nice day.
TerryO said:
imho it was uncalled for, rude and ignorant for someone to call something they have never seen or heard as being equal to the quality of dumpster items (aka trash). this behavior on analog_sa's part was insulting and unacceptable to me. i will NEVER apologize for defending myself from an uncalled for and unprovoked attack, regardless if i get any more help on this forum or not.
TerryO said:
i show respect to everyone and anyone until they disrespect me. have you seen me disrespect any posters who actually offered quality advise in a polite and respectful manner? no way.
TerryO said:
translation? is that some sort of patronizing threat?
TerryO said:
dear analog_sa,
i regret we got off on the wrong foot. lets please put this behind us and move on to better times. i respect your expertise and experience, and would be very appreciative to learn from you about turntables. could kindly tell me,
- what is a good way to find a replacement cartridge, needle for yamaha T-200?
- after i install cartridge/needle, do i need to take the TT to a stereo guy to have it realigned or reset or something.
thank you for your time and have a nice day.
Hello Gain.
I asume you have read the post above this one.
It contains good info....
Now regarding your q's .It sound like your needle is dead or at least seriously dirty the cartridge itself might be ok ( this is the point where pics would be handy) I'm asuming that the cart. is mm(moving magnet)
and has a detatchable stylusassembly(lets call this part needle for now)
Did a short search on the web but found no pics.
See if this works :
1 check if the headshell is removable.
If so remove headshell and turn it over .
If not ignore above.
2 Now look at the end of the cantilever here you should see the stylus
A small piece of diamond (hopefully )"cut"in a shape that is needed to trace the grooves in the record.
If you can't see it use magnifeing glasses..
Now you might see a tiny glistening point (i doubt it) or you might see a "big" piece of crud (most likely).
If there is crud use a fine brush to clean it of .Moving the brush back to front (back being were the wires are connected to the cart).
This could take a while as that crud tends to be "sticky".
Don't use to much pressure .
If you want to you could use styluscleaner (check the web)
3 Once you have it clean see if it still has a point. The point can wear off or break off .
4 If it still has a usefull point reinsert the shell into the arm and try again using a record you will not miss if it gets killed .
5 reset playing wieght (vtf,vertical tracking force )to the manufacturers recomended setting.(another websearch)
6 Set antiskate See above.
7 Allign cart to the manufacturers setting.
In this case Yamaha as it is defined by the arm geometry.
8 Now try playing a record.
Personally I would skip 2 till 4 and just buy a new one.
unless it is something worth keeping...
Small personal story regarding dumsterdiving: search the web for sme 3009 and for Ortofon rf309 on the web I found these at a scrapyard.
There is lots of info floating out there feel free to search.
But doublecheck what you find.
Hope this helps some, regards F.
I asume you have read the post above this one.
It contains good info....
Now regarding your q's .It sound like your needle is dead or at least seriously dirty the cartridge itself might be ok ( this is the point where pics would be handy) I'm asuming that the cart. is mm(moving magnet)
and has a detatchable stylusassembly(lets call this part needle for now)
Did a short search on the web but found no pics.
See if this works :
1 check if the headshell is removable.
If so remove headshell and turn it over .
If not ignore above.
2 Now look at the end of the cantilever here you should see the stylus
A small piece of diamond (hopefully )"cut"in a shape that is needed to trace the grooves in the record.
If you can't see it use magnifeing glasses..
Now you might see a tiny glistening point (i doubt it) or you might see a "big" piece of crud (most likely).
If there is crud use a fine brush to clean it of .Moving the brush back to front (back being were the wires are connected to the cart).
This could take a while as that crud tends to be "sticky".
Don't use to much pressure .
If you want to you could use styluscleaner (check the web)
3 Once you have it clean see if it still has a point. The point can wear off or break off .
4 If it still has a usefull point reinsert the shell into the arm and try again using a record you will not miss if it gets killed .
5 reset playing wieght (vtf,vertical tracking force )to the manufacturers recomended setting.(another websearch)
6 Set antiskate See above.
7 Allign cart to the manufacturers setting.
In this case Yamaha as it is defined by the arm geometry.
8 Now try playing a record.
Personally I would skip 2 till 4 and just buy a new one.
unless it is something worth keeping...
Small personal story regarding dumsterdiving: search the web for sme 3009 and for Ortofon rf309 on the web I found these at a scrapyard.
There is lots of info floating out there feel free to search.
But doublecheck what you find.
Hope this helps some, regards F.
hi cannext,
wow thanks for all the good info! theres really a lot there, im very grateful you took the time to type all that out.
i think i will try cleaning the end of the stylus for now as you recommend in step 2. what would be a good applicator to use. you mention a fine brush will a toothbrush work or is it more like a child's watercolor paintbrush? also what would be a good solvent besides styluscleaner (dont feel like waiting 7 days for delivery from web). would rubbing alcohol work?
how do you get the specs for the playing weight and anti-skating and stuff?
thanks again!
wow thanks for all the good info! theres really a lot there, im very grateful you took the time to type all that out.
i think i will try cleaning the end of the stylus for now as you recommend in step 2. what would be a good applicator to use. you mention a fine brush will a toothbrush work or is it more like a child's watercolor paintbrush? also what would be a good solvent besides styluscleaner (dont feel like waiting 7 days for delivery from web). would rubbing alcohol work?
how do you get the specs for the playing weight and anti-skating and stuff?
thanks again!
yeah i probably should just buy a new one they are cheep enough and then everything will be new and sound nice, but i kinda want to learn how to fix turntables (at least the basics).
ya know, one more household appliance to know how to fix is always a good thing!
🙂
ya know, one more household appliance to know how to fix is always a good thing!
🙂
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