actually disregard previous post. im tired of discussing this krap. if you dont want to talk about turntable repair/improvement then please kindly go read and post somewhere else.
i am done discussing language semantics or spelling errors. this is an international site, and i am a native english speaker. if folks on here can't have more tolerance for different writing styles and/or occasional spelling mistakes then thats their problem.
i am done discussing language semantics or spelling errors. this is an international site, and i am a native english speaker. if folks on here can't have more tolerance for different writing styles and/or occasional spelling mistakes then thats their problem.
TheSeekerr said:
thanks for your warm response TheSeeker. i now feel there is at least someone on this forum who gets it. thank you for that!
#2.
Try searching "turntable setup" in Google. It's a great way to find the answers you seek without the attitude you'll get on a forum. It seems at the present like you're asking others to do your homework for you. Once you have a basic idea of how to set up a turntable, you'll get better answers to your questions (because the questions will be more specific).
Try searching "turntable setup" in Google. It's a great way to find the answers you seek without the attitude you'll get on a forum. It seems at the present like you're asking others to do your homework for you. Once you have a basic idea of how to set up a turntable, you'll get better answers to your questions (because the questions will be more specific).
maxro said:
yeah tell me about it 🙂 been learning alot that way!
maxro said:
yeah you make a valid point there. i guess since i grew up with CD changers and ipods and pc's i was hoping the people who grew up with TT's would help me with my homework a little.
maxro said:
still trying to learn the lingo at this stage. its kinda like, now i know how the old timers feel when i explain how to use a blackberry or something, cuz they didn't grow up with it. i didn't grow up wit TT's so its like a new paradigm for me.
cool reading your post maxro.
yo Gain
Hey man
Good to see an ipod gen get into vinyl.
Have you got your cartridge and turntable setup yet?
With this stuff you can play it out of the box but once you start tweaking it becomes more involved, harder and frustrating but strangely satisfying when you make improvements.
If you learn to tinker thats cool but if you want to just play music then thats cool as well, its just that bought stuff often can be improved.
So dude, where are you up to with all of this?
Cheers
Hey man
Good to see an ipod gen get into vinyl.
Have you got your cartridge and turntable setup yet?
With this stuff you can play it out of the box but once you start tweaking it becomes more involved, harder and frustrating but strangely satisfying when you make improvements.
If you learn to tinker thats cool but if you want to just play music then thats cool as well, its just that bought stuff often can be improved.
So dude, where are you up to with all of this?
Cheers
Goodmorning Gain ,here at any rate .
concerning the cart mounted now , looks like an Ortofon ,
older type "vms something " one can still find needles for these.
Dismount it and look on the top if you find ortofon denmark molded in the black plastic you'll know.
Your headshell seems to be removable "curly knob"on the side .
To be sure see if you are able to find a manual for the table .
Getting a manual is smart anyway because it will contain a lot of info .
concerning "homework" doing it for you would be cheating,we are however pointing you in the "right " direktion .
In my humble oppinion chearching for and finding the answers you need is part of the "learning proces".On top of that it the hunt is part of the fun.
Have fun and happy hunting
Regards F.
concerning the cart mounted now , looks like an Ortofon ,
older type "vms something " one can still find needles for these.
Dismount it and look on the top if you find ortofon denmark molded in the black plastic you'll know.
Your headshell seems to be removable "curly knob"on the side .
To be sure see if you are able to find a manual for the table .
Getting a manual is smart anyway because it will contain a lot of info .
concerning "homework" doing it for you would be cheating,we are however pointing you in the "right " direktion .
In my humble oppinion chearching for and finding the answers you need is part of the "learning proces".On top of that it the hunt is part of the fun.
Have fun and happy hunting
Regards F.
Oops I forgot:
"you mention a fine brush will a toothbrush work or is it more like a child's watercolor paintbrush? also what would be a good solvent besides styluscleaner (dont feel like waiting 7 days for delivery from web). would rubbing alcohol work? "
A toothbrush is to coarse a artist paintbrush is better .
check magic eraser (websearch again (more "homework")).
If rubbing alcohol is pure ethanol you might use it ,but some cartridge makers (oa Ortofon) advise against it .Alc could disolve the glue used to stick the stylus to the cantilever.
Your choice .
Regards F.
"you mention a fine brush will a toothbrush work or is it more like a child's watercolor paintbrush? also what would be a good solvent besides styluscleaner (dont feel like waiting 7 days for delivery from web). would rubbing alcohol work? "
A toothbrush is to coarse a artist paintbrush is better .
check magic eraser (websearch again (more "homework")).
If rubbing alcohol is pure ethanol you might use it ,but some cartridge makers (oa Ortofon) advise against it .Alc could disolve the glue used to stick the stylus to the cantilever.
Your choice .
Regards F.
As I pointed out in an earlier post most of the information you need to replace and set up your TT will be found on www.vinylengine.com - a really good place for turntable information. They don't have a manual for your specific model, but they do have one for the P-07 which might be sufficiently similar to be of some help.
Your plan for replacing the cartridge sounds reasonable given the likely limited adjustability of the headshell. The new cartridge will come with a recommendation for tracking force and anti-skating force settings, just set towards the high end of the recommended range. (Cartridges generally track best at the high end of their rated range with some rare exceptions.)
For really low cost cartridges I suspect the Needle Doctor is your best bet..
Don't use a really trashed record as it could damage the new cartridge, just use something that you don't particularly care for.
Read up on basic record handling and cleaning as well. It's important to keep them scrupulously clean, and to handle them from the edges and center only. The acids and oils on your fingers can do serious long term damage to the vinyl and create an area where dust will adhere.
In terms of the age of this table it was available for a couple of years in the early to mid 1980's, so both your aunt and dad could be correct. It would be relatively contemporaneous to the Mitsubishi table I mentioned in an earlier post.
Your plan for replacing the cartridge sounds reasonable given the likely limited adjustability of the headshell. The new cartridge will come with a recommendation for tracking force and anti-skating force settings, just set towards the high end of the recommended range. (Cartridges generally track best at the high end of their rated range with some rare exceptions.)
For really low cost cartridges I suspect the Needle Doctor is your best bet..
Don't use a really trashed record as it could damage the new cartridge, just use something that you don't particularly care for.
Read up on basic record handling and cleaning as well. It's important to keep them scrupulously clean, and to handle them from the edges and center only. The acids and oils on your fingers can do serious long term damage to the vinyl and create an area where dust will adhere.
In terms of the age of this table it was available for a couple of years in the early to mid 1980's, so both your aunt and dad could be correct. It would be relatively contemporaneous to the Mitsubishi table I mentioned in an earlier post.
Re: yo Gain
hi duderduderini,
thanks for your reply!
hey i just love music, i don't discriminate based on sources as long as they produce good sound. and there are others from my gen who are into vinyl, but i do admit they are hard to come by. i think its kinda like a peer pressure / marketing thing, like, "joe just got a brand new 120GB video equipped ipod/iphone and here's this fool messing with a record player from like the 80s! hey, what's up grandpa!" but these same people never seem to listen to the same song on the ipod then the TT then decide which THEY like better. they just assume because TV and peer pressure tells them thats the way it is. and lots of people cant/dont resist peer pressure and cant/dont think for themselves. thats my take on that scene, fwiw.
yeah it works its just old cuz it was my cousin's who owned it many years ago. she and her husband just moved and was going to throw out the TT along with like a thousand records (some really good titles too, dylan, stones, hendrix, acdc, van halen, etc) she was going to just throw this out so i "rescued" the records and the TT. i haven't done any work to the TT yet except replace the belt which had snapped.
i have it hooked through a RIAA into my preamp and it plays, and strangely on some tracks it plays really well but on others the treble and upper mids just sound terrible. i think it happens when there are peaks in program material and the needle is vibrating with higher amplitude. its like it cant keep up and clips/distorts the sound. but when it plays well it sounds really good, almost as good if not AS good as the ipod imho. with the exception of the inevitable low level random pops and scratches every record seems to have.
yeah its just like anything once you get to tweaking its hard to resist to tweak a little more ... and more. as to what im up to, im ordering a new cart/needle and attempt to replace the existing one. see my list of steps of my "plan" above. then hopefully i will get better sound and if i enjoy the experience enough i will lay down some more serious cake and get a higher class TT. but for now i just want to learn my way around these things (TT's)
cheers.
hi duderduderini,
thanks for your reply!
duderduderini said:
hey i just love music, i don't discriminate based on sources as long as they produce good sound. and there are others from my gen who are into vinyl, but i do admit they are hard to come by. i think its kinda like a peer pressure / marketing thing, like, "joe just got a brand new 120GB video equipped ipod/iphone and here's this fool messing with a record player from like the 80s! hey, what's up grandpa!" but these same people never seem to listen to the same song on the ipod then the TT then decide which THEY like better. they just assume because TV and peer pressure tells them thats the way it is. and lots of people cant/dont resist peer pressure and cant/dont think for themselves. thats my take on that scene, fwiw.
duderduderini said:
yeah it works its just old cuz it was my cousin's who owned it many years ago. she and her husband just moved and was going to throw out the TT along with like a thousand records (some really good titles too, dylan, stones, hendrix, acdc, van halen, etc) she was going to just throw this out so i "rescued" the records and the TT. i haven't done any work to the TT yet except replace the belt which had snapped.
i have it hooked through a RIAA into my preamp and it plays, and strangely on some tracks it plays really well but on others the treble and upper mids just sound terrible. i think it happens when there are peaks in program material and the needle is vibrating with higher amplitude. its like it cant keep up and clips/distorts the sound. but when it plays well it sounds really good, almost as good if not AS good as the ipod imho. with the exception of the inevitable low level random pops and scratches every record seems to have.
duderduderini said:
yeah its just like anything once you get to tweaking its hard to resist to tweak a little more ... and more. as to what im up to, im ordering a new cart/needle and attempt to replace the existing one. see my list of steps of my "plan" above. then hopefully i will get better sound and if i enjoy the experience enough i will lay down some more serious cake and get a higher class TT. but for now i just want to learn my way around these things (TT's)
cheers.
cannext said:
awesome thanks for that info. i will try i very fine artist paintbrush. will just use water at first and see if i can make a improvement in sound by just a basic cleaning, getting the dust off. if that works, and i can develop the proper level of intestinal fortitude, i may try a solution of like 20 alcohol and 80 water or something and see if i can get more 'gunk' off the stylus.
at any rate im replacing the cart and stylus anyway so if i f it up no big loss.
gain said:
gain,
Use 99% Isopropyl alcohol. Rubbing alcohol is not the same, has higher levels of impurities and leaves a residual film. The cost difference isn't that much and a bottle lasts a long time, it also is better for cleaning lenses, etc.
It seems that from your description of the problem with tracking that:
1. You have a dirty stylus (probable, after years of storage)
2. Your cartridge needs alignment (use a cartridge alignment protractor...there are some that you can download and print off the web, but I don't have a URL. Check that it's exactly the right dimensions, resize if necessary to get it exactly right.)
3. The suspension on your cartridge has deteriorated and no longer does the job. In this case you need a completely new cartridge.
The inexpensive Grado cartridges have always been value leaders and while the "cheaper" ones aren't SOTA, they do a pretty decent job.
BTW: Use a Camel's hair artist's brush for cleaning, they're soft and won't damage the delicate stylus. Buy a good one, they're not that much money and will last you for years, if taken care of.
TerryO
Re: Re: yo Gain
Now here is one of the joys of analogue I have discovered recently (I am also a recent convert of the iPod generation)...
When dealing in analogue audio, every little upgrade, modification, or tweak, matters much much more in terms of improvement in audio quality than it does when dealing in the realm of digital audio.
For me I enjoy this fact because in makes it much easier for me to enjoy every little upgrade, tweak, or modification I preform on my gear.
- Justin
gain said:
Now here is one of the joys of analogue I have discovered recently (I am also a recent convert of the iPod generation)...
When dealing in analogue audio, every little upgrade, modification, or tweak, matters much much more in terms of improvement in audio quality than it does when dealing in the realm of digital audio.
For me I enjoy this fact because in makes it much easier for me to enjoy every little upgrade, tweak, or modification I preform on my gear.
- Justin
Re: Re: Re: yo Gain
yes you are right i have noticed the same. i have also noticed it works both ways, like when debugging a circuit too. with digital circuits, you try your fix, and if it is successful everything suddenly works perfect and the problem goes away. with analog it seems like you try your fix then the problem gets a 'little' better or a 'little' worse (or has no effect at all), depending on the correctness of the tree you are barking up.
i was actually listening to my TT last night. i got to thinking and realized this was one of the first times in my life (that i know of) that i was listening to an album through an ENTIRELY analog signal path. from the source to the speakers, there were no digital circuits. pure analog sound ... and the most amazing thing is it sounds pretty much the same as the digital!!! seriously rivals it anyway ... and this is like 1960s tech were talking here. kinda gave me pause a little, wondering how much we have really 'progressed.' at least in terms of sound quality.
the convenience of the ipod certainly beats getting up every 5-6 songs to physically flip a record though!!!
despotic931 said:
yes you are right i have noticed the same. i have also noticed it works both ways, like when debugging a circuit too. with digital circuits, you try your fix, and if it is successful everything suddenly works perfect and the problem goes away. with analog it seems like you try your fix then the problem gets a 'little' better or a 'little' worse (or has no effect at all), depending on the correctness of the tree you are barking up.
i was actually listening to my TT last night. i got to thinking and realized this was one of the first times in my life (that i know of) that i was listening to an album through an ENTIRELY analog signal path. from the source to the speakers, there were no digital circuits. pure analog sound ... and the most amazing thing is it sounds pretty much the same as the digital!!! seriously rivals it anyway ... and this is like 1960s tech were talking here. kinda gave me pause a little, wondering how much we have really 'progressed.' at least in terms of sound quality.
the convenience of the ipod certainly beats getting up every 5-6 songs to physically flip a record though!!!
Re: Re: Re: Re: yo Gain
Bingo, you definitely get it.. Wait until you hear even better analog..😀
Most of my system is designed based on principles and approaches that audio engineers of the 1950s would recognize. (I am a former consumer electronics design engineer, practiced that art until 2004. Now I do ATE on the theory that it is a more stable field, hahaha..
) SACD and high bit rate pcm (88.2kHz/24 bit and beyond) are competitive with good analog, but rarely better it. (My sources are a modified Sony SCD-777ES SACD player, diy dac, diy cd transport, diy media server, half track ReVox G36 R2R, Otari MX-55T-M TT R2R, and a Mitsubishi or McIntosh or Fisher analog FM tuner.) Really good analog almost always wins, with SACD coming in close 2nd or tying.. Rest of system is all tube diy, speakers are diy Onkens with JBL mid and tweeter horns. Serious investment in both time and funds...😀
gain said:
Bingo, you definitely get it.. Wait until you hear even better analog..😀
Most of my system is designed based on principles and approaches that audio engineers of the 1950s would recognize. (I am a former consumer electronics design engineer, practiced that art until 2004. Now I do ATE on the theory that it is a more stable field, hahaha..
) SACD and high bit rate pcm (88.2kHz/24 bit and beyond) are competitive with good analog, but rarely better it. (My sources are a modified Sony SCD-777ES SACD player, diy dac, diy cd transport, diy media server, half track ReVox G36 R2R, Otari MX-55T-M TT R2R, and a Mitsubishi or McIntosh or Fisher analog FM tuner.) Really good analog almost always wins, with SACD coming in close 2nd or tying.. Rest of system is all tube diy, speakers are diy Onkens with JBL mid and tweeter horns. Serious investment in both time and funds...😀
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: yo Gain
thats really cool cuz some of the audio engineering effects and stuff i've heard on some 1950s recordings is just really unique and pleasant sounding. wish they did some of those same effects in songs today. i cant really describe it with words right now ... more of a chorus or presence effect perhaps. but nice.
im a computer scientist / programmer graduated in '07. work mostly with local and wide area networks and network programming. my first job was programming PIC microcontollers, so i got a little hands on in the electronics labs there prototyping and programming / debugging the boards my company made. even being a mostly digital guy, i always had an appreciation for analog, just wish i understood it better. thats why im DIYing a few audio projects, mainly a preamp (90 percent done) and a power amp (not begun yet). i successfully DIY'd a power RF amp last year and was happy with that result ... worked real nice but was just a touch illegal.
so why the hard sell to the consumer for all digital this and digital that? is it just a marketing thing so they can sell more products? i mean in certain cases its obvious why digital (or analog) is superior choice but as you and i seem to agree on in audio it can kinda go either way.
ok you kinda lost me there don't really know what most of that stuff is except media server and FM tuner. sounded cool though. i have a sweet media server myself, runs linux, 2TB capacity (almost full with good quality mp3 by the way) attached to a wireless LAN. at any time i can take my laptop to my system and plug it in and bingo, access to approx 320k songs.
my home theater is a 2003 kenwood dolby 5.1 140Wx6. sounds good, decent bass, but a little disappointing in stereo.
the system in my room (which i prefer for music listing) is a diy preamp, followed by a vintage 70s stereo hooked to a pair of 300W diy speakers my friend and i made a few years ago. vibrates all floors of house on like three and a half volume, and TONS of bass. very nice sound imo.
yeah tubes are not something im ready to play with yet, but congrats on getting yours working. for now, im perfectly happy with solid state. besides, as careless as i can be sometimes, i know its only a matter of time before i get between plate and ground!
kind regards
kevinkr said:
thats really cool cuz some of the audio engineering effects and stuff i've heard on some 1950s recordings is just really unique and pleasant sounding. wish they did some of those same effects in songs today. i cant really describe it with words right now ... more of a chorus or presence effect perhaps. but nice.
kevinkr said:(I am a former consumer electronics design engineer, practiced that art until 2004. Now I do ATE on the theory that it is a more stable field, hahaha..
im a computer scientist / programmer graduated in '07. work mostly with local and wide area networks and network programming. my first job was programming PIC microcontollers, so i got a little hands on in the electronics labs there prototyping and programming / debugging the boards my company made. even being a mostly digital guy, i always had an appreciation for analog, just wish i understood it better. thats why im DIYing a few audio projects, mainly a preamp (90 percent done) and a power amp (not begun yet). i successfully DIY'd a power RF amp last year and was happy with that result ... worked real nice but was just a touch illegal.
kevinkr said:
so why the hard sell to the consumer for all digital this and digital that? is it just a marketing thing so they can sell more products? i mean in certain cases its obvious why digital (or analog) is superior choice but as you and i seem to agree on in audio it can kinda go either way.
kevinkr said:
ok you kinda lost me there don't really know what most of that stuff is except media server and FM tuner. sounded cool though. i have a sweet media server myself, runs linux, 2TB capacity (almost full with good quality mp3 by the way) attached to a wireless LAN. at any time i can take my laptop to my system and plug it in and bingo, access to approx 320k songs.
my home theater is a 2003 kenwood dolby 5.1 140Wx6. sounds good, decent bass, but a little disappointing in stereo.
the system in my room (which i prefer for music listing) is a diy preamp, followed by a vintage 70s stereo hooked to a pair of 300W diy speakers my friend and i made a few years ago. vibrates all floors of house on like three and a half volume, and TONS of bass. very nice sound imo.
kevinkr said:
yeah tubes are not something im ready to play with yet, but congrats on getting yours working. for now, im perfectly happy with solid state. besides, as careless as i can be sometimes, i know its only a matter of time before i get between plate and ground!
kind regards
does anyone have suggestions on how to eliminate or minimize those llittle 'pops' and 'scratches' some records make? like these noises are not very loud (although some can be seen on level indicator) or very long in duration but they are no doubt noticible.
pop ... normal ... little pop ... normal ... normal ... pop ... normal etc.
i have done some homework and experimentation and found that by dusting the record and/or stylus before play helps, and indeed it does. but some records i de-dust (i use a swiffer pad that attracts dust like a magnet) and make sure the stylus is dust free yet they still pop and scratch lots. other records don't seem to do this at all or do it only rarely or occasionally.
i don't really mind the pops so much if they are infrequent but with some records it sounds like listening to AM radio during a lightning storm. not exactly hi-fi.
how do you guys deal with this issue?
thanks for reading.
pop ... normal ... little pop ... normal ... normal ... pop ... normal etc.
i have done some homework and experimentation and found that by dusting the record and/or stylus before play helps, and indeed it does. but some records i de-dust (i use a swiffer pad that attracts dust like a magnet) and make sure the stylus is dust free yet they still pop and scratch lots. other records don't seem to do this at all or do it only rarely or occasionally.
i don't really mind the pops so much if they are infrequent but with some records it sounds like listening to AM radio during a lightning storm. not exactly hi-fi.
how do you guys deal with this issue?
thanks for reading.
gain said:
Such a thing exists? That's an oxymoron if I've ever seen one.
Sorry, couldn't resist ;-)
-Chris
BTW, RE: the pops and clicks. There really is no way to remove most of them. You can clean the record, which may help, but after that they are just a part of the experience. The only real cure is to buy new or pristine used records and work to keep them that way.
(well, you could record them to digital and then post-process out the pops ;-)
eclectic2k said:
320kbps (or higher) constant bit rate mp3 = CD quality sound. but i hear where you are coming from because most mp3's are ripped at 128kbps which for the most prat will sound distinctly inferior when played through good quality audio system.
eclectic2k said:
yeah, "part of the experience" thats the same thing my dad told me. i think i will order some record cleaner and try and get into the habit of cleaning them each time they come out to play.
thanks for the input!
hey just have a quick ques for you guys while im waiting for my cart to come in the mail. warning: this may be an noob question, but i am genuinely curious.
whats up with the 33/45 switch on my TT. was this for dubbing LP's at double speed or something? whenever i try out 45 setting, the record sounds really weird it sounds like those disney chipmunks chip and dale are singing. really f'ed up!!!
what is the purpose of the 45 setting? none of the records i have sound even human with my TT set on 45 (vs 33)
thanks and respect
-gain
whats up with the 33/45 switch on my TT. was this for dubbing LP's at double speed or something? whenever i try out 45 setting, the record sounds really weird it sounds like those disney chipmunks chip and dale are singing. really f'ed up!!!
what is the purpose of the 45 setting? none of the records i have sound even human with my TT set on 45 (vs 33)
thanks and respect
-gain
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