Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: turntable question
Yeah, I would say apologizing to analog_sa would be a real good idea, he is one of the real experts here, and there is quite a lot he knows that you (or I) have yet to learn. Particularly in this area..
FWIW a great many of us here are more than old enough to have been adults when that particular table came out. I mean how old do you think that table is?
Don't spend a whole of money on a new cartridge for this thing and providing that the rest of your system is really up to snuff, and you like the sound of LPs you might consider an old Thorens or Rega for example. Old AR-XA are worth a look as well, and are very musical - they were the inspiration for an awful lot of today's high end suspended subchassis based tables. (I replaced a Mitsubishi DP-EC7 DD w/Ortofon LM20H with an AR-XA, the differences weren't subtle. I bought the XA nib for about $45 from a hobbyist, and this with another LM-20H I had on hand absolutely clobbered the nearly $400 Mitsubishi which was working properly. )
I know someone who trash picked an early Linn table, which is one of the most respected high end brands. (Which is way above the league of most consumer level Japanese tables.)
I own a 40yr old Thorens TD-125 (good recommendable table, not inexpensive to acquire however) and a ReVox G36 R2R. about 42 yrs old, both younger than me and a lot older than that Yamaha.
Check out the www.vinylengine.com - this is where you will find the most comprehensive resources relating to turntables. You will find all of the information you are seeking about the cartridge replacement there.
This table uses a conventional, not p mount type cartridge which is actually a good thing. Although p mounts (aka universal mounts with an adaptor) are still made the selection is limited and the quality is affected by the rigidity of the adaptor when used in a normal mounting scenario. P mounts were generally intended for very inexpensive TT so ultimate performance was rarely a concern.
Grado makes some good inexpensive conventional mount cartridges that are relatively non-fussy in use. I think the Grado Black MM at $60 would be a reasonable choice for this table. (Elusive Disc online) Shure, and Ortofon are other possibilities..
Online sources for cartridges here in the USA, Needle Doctor, Elusive Disc, and Acoustic Sounds.
Try to set it up yourself with additional guidance from here and vinylengine. Expertise in this area at a local high end store could be costly.
Yeah, I would say apologizing to analog_sa would be a real good idea, he is one of the real experts here, and there is quite a lot he knows that you (or I) have yet to learn. Particularly in this area..
FWIW a great many of us here are more than old enough to have been adults when that particular table came out. I mean how old do you think that table is?
Don't spend a whole of money on a new cartridge for this thing and providing that the rest of your system is really up to snuff, and you like the sound of LPs you might consider an old Thorens or Rega for example. Old AR-XA are worth a look as well, and are very musical - they were the inspiration for an awful lot of today's high end suspended subchassis based tables. (I replaced a Mitsubishi DP-EC7 DD w/Ortofon LM20H with an AR-XA, the differences weren't subtle. I bought the XA nib for about $45 from a hobbyist, and this with another LM-20H I had on hand absolutely clobbered the nearly $400 Mitsubishi which was working properly. )
I know someone who trash picked an early Linn table, which is one of the most respected high end brands. (Which is way above the league of most consumer level Japanese tables.)
I own a 40yr old Thorens TD-125 (good recommendable table, not inexpensive to acquire however) and a ReVox G36 R2R. about 42 yrs old, both younger than me and a lot older than that Yamaha.
Check out the www.vinylengine.com - this is where you will find the most comprehensive resources relating to turntables. You will find all of the information you are seeking about the cartridge replacement there.
This table uses a conventional, not p mount type cartridge which is actually a good thing. Although p mounts (aka universal mounts with an adaptor) are still made the selection is limited and the quality is affected by the rigidity of the adaptor when used in a normal mounting scenario. P mounts were generally intended for very inexpensive TT so ultimate performance was rarely a concern.
Grado makes some good inexpensive conventional mount cartridges that are relatively non-fussy in use. I think the Grado Black MM at $60 would be a reasonable choice for this table. (Elusive Disc online) Shure, and Ortofon are other possibilities..
Online sources for cartridges here in the USA, Needle Doctor, Elusive Disc, and Acoustic Sounds.
Try to set it up yourself with additional guidance from here and vinylengine. Expertise in this area at a local high end store could be costly.
hi kevin,
i made my peace offering above. whatever happens happens. i hope we will be friends.
well my dad says early 80s and my aunt says mid 80s. those are the only people who have seen it who are old enough to guess. were either in the ballpark?
thanks for the rest of the advise and the link, which i am going to check out now. what i am going to do is repair this turntable by replacing cart and needle (already done belt).
then i will see if i like LP sound enough to invest more in the brands you speak so highly of. so far i like the sound a lot, even with the yamaha (which does play really decent on certain tracks as long is there is no dust on the needle). the only annoying thing is having to get up after every like 5 or 6 songs to flip the record.
many thanks for your reply and kind regards.
i made my peace offering above. whatever happens happens. i hope we will be friends.
well my dad says early 80s and my aunt says mid 80s. those are the only people who have seen it who are old enough to guess. were either in the ballpark?
thanks for the rest of the advise and the link, which i am going to check out now. what i am going to do is repair this turntable by replacing cart and needle (already done belt).
then i will see if i like LP sound enough to invest more in the brands you speak so highly of. so far i like the sound a lot, even with the yamaha (which does play really decent on certain tracks as long is there is no dust on the needle). the only annoying thing is having to get up after every like 5 or 6 songs to flip the record.
many thanks for your reply and kind regards.
does anyone know a link or links to sites or resources that list which turntables are compatible with which cart / stylus? like a table that says ABC turntable can accept DEF,GHI and XYZ cartridges or something like that?
in other words, how do you guys know which carts and stylus will fit which turntable?
thanks.
in other words, how do you guys know which carts and stylus will fit which turntable?
thanks.
I'm no expert, but it isn't a matter of compatibility. Just about any cartridge will work with your turntable, but it's just a matter of how good the cart you pick will match with your turntable's tone-arm. Also how much were you looking to spend on a new cartridge? You can buy a budget cart for like $30.00 plus shipping, but you must remember you get what you pay for. If you throw out a price range I'm sure you'll get suggestions.
Also, just to point out I think what previous posters were trying to point out is that you could most likely upgrade your turntable for the same price as a decent cartridge. I just picked up an AR XB for $68.00 plus the cost of shipping off ebay! Here, this turntable would even be an upgrade for you. From the looks of it the weak point on your turntable is the tone-arm. But hey, you're still better off than I was when I got discovered my love for vinyl records! My first, and only turntable until I get my AR XB in the mail, is a Technics SL-1500. It will hold time maybe fifty percent of the time, the other fifty percent it speeds up and slows down so bad I can't listen to it. It's a real shame I couldn't solve the mystery problem, I this it looks pretty slick...
- Justin (almost as green as you at this vinyl thing...)
Also, just to point out I think what previous posters were trying to point out is that you could most likely upgrade your turntable for the same price as a decent cartridge. I just picked up an AR XB for $68.00 plus the cost of shipping off ebay! Here, this turntable would even be an upgrade for you. From the looks of it the weak point on your turntable is the tone-arm. But hey, you're still better off than I was when I got discovered my love for vinyl records! My first, and only turntable until I get my AR XB in the mail, is a Technics SL-1500. It will hold time maybe fifty percent of the time, the other fifty percent it speeds up and slows down so bad I can't listen to it. It's a real shame I couldn't solve the mystery problem, I this it looks pretty slick...
- Justin (almost as green as you at this vinyl thing...)
yeah looking at some of the prices for carts makes me think the same as you, that perhaps replacement is a better option.
but, i want the experience. always loved fixing things. so here is what i plan to do, anyone please feel free to comment or add/remove.
1. order cart ~$30 with the conventional four wire mount.
2. on TT, undo four little wires to cart and remove, noting where they go.
3. undo two small screws at front of tonearm that hold cart in. remove old cart.
4. insert new cart, re install mounting screws.
5. plug four small wires back in their respective positions on back of cart.
6. pick out a crappy record and play it a few dozen times. if it doesn't mess up the record and sounds nice, start playing good records with it.
what do y'alls think of my plan? i know im probably missing a few steps here?
but, i want the experience. always loved fixing things. so here is what i plan to do, anyone please feel free to comment or add/remove.
1. order cart ~$30 with the conventional four wire mount.
2. on TT, undo four little wires to cart and remove, noting where they go.
3. undo two small screws at front of tonearm that hold cart in. remove old cart.
4. insert new cart, re install mounting screws.
5. plug four small wires back in their respective positions on back of cart.
6. pick out a crappy record and play it a few dozen times. if it doesn't mess up the record and sounds nice, start playing good records with it.
what do y'alls think of my plan? i know im probably missing a few steps here?
Gain, you will probably get more useful answers from more people on the vinylengine site linked to you earlier in this thread. It has a great turntable and tonearm section where you will get lots of answers for cartridge recommendations and turntable recommendations.
The diyaudio.com analog forum is really more oriented to turntable design/engineering, as opposed to product recommendations....
-Chris
The diyaudio.com analog forum is really more oriented to turntable design/engineering, as opposed to product recommendations....
-Chris
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: turntable question
I believe that he didn't say "equal to" as I assumed he actually meant "superior" quality, and I agree. It's too bad that you didn't understand what he was telling you and jumped to an unwarranted conclusion.
FYI: The term "Dumpster" is generally used to denote an item that may actually have been discarded (actually in a dumpster), or found along the road, at a garage sale, St. Vinnies and so forth. The point he was attempting to make is that there are many really excellent TTs out there if you look.
Your "unprovoked attack" was an honest attempt, on his part, to inform you of something that you obviously had no knowledge of. The "uncalled for, rude and ignorant" remarks were yours, and you could (should) have asked for clarification, instead of first making yourself out to be a jerk. I might add that respect is "earned"... not automatically awarded, on this forum or anywhere else in the World. If you were taught otherwise in school, they lied to you.
Well, it's obvious that you have "disrespected" him. I might add that you are in no way able, given your level of knowledge, to determine what "quality advise" is.
BTW: The correct word is "advice" not advise. I might add that "disrepect" is ghetto slang and is not understood by many here, please attempt to use regular English. Last, but not least, capitalization and correct spelling are encouraged.
What is it that you can't understand? I can offer take a little bit of my otherwise valuable time (as your Patron) to work with you on this, but I must tell you that my patience is not unlimited.
You certainly flatter yourself if you think that I would bother to make any type of threat.
Now, that's a much better way to seek advice and it seems that you've already received a fair amount of information as a result.
As you seem to have some intelligence, and may in the future become quite knowledgeable regarding audio, I'll give you my best advice:
Read with more precision and write with more disgression.
Best Regards,
TerryO
gain said:
I believe that he didn't say "equal to" as I assumed he actually meant "superior" quality, and I agree. It's too bad that you didn't understand what he was telling you and jumped to an unwarranted conclusion.
FYI: The term "Dumpster" is generally used to denote an item that may actually have been discarded (actually in a dumpster), or found along the road, at a garage sale, St. Vinnies and so forth. The point he was attempting to make is that there are many really excellent TTs out there if you look.
Your "unprovoked attack" was an honest attempt, on his part, to inform you of something that you obviously had no knowledge of. The "uncalled for, rude and ignorant" remarks were yours, and you could (should) have asked for clarification, instead of first making yourself out to be a jerk. I might add that respect is "earned"... not automatically awarded, on this forum or anywhere else in the World. If you were taught otherwise in school, they lied to you.
Well, it's obvious that you have "disrespected" him. I might add that you are in no way able, given your level of knowledge, to determine what "quality advise" is.
BTW: The correct word is "advice" not advise. I might add that "disrepect" is ghetto slang and is not understood by many here, please attempt to use regular English. Last, but not least, capitalization and correct spelling are encouraged.
What is it that you can't understand? I can offer take a little bit of my otherwise valuable time (as your Patron) to work with you on this, but I must tell you that my patience is not unlimited.
You certainly flatter yourself if you think that I would bother to make any type of threat.
Now, that's a much better way to seek advice and it seems that you've already received a fair amount of information as a result.
As you seem to have some intelligence, and may in the future become quite knowledgeable regarding audio, I'll give you my best advice:
Read with more precision and write with more disgression.
Best Regards,
TerryO
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: turntable question
The use of disgression is, of course, a matter of personal discretion, but I digress due to distress (I guess).
I think that you've found out the secret as to why I'm such an authority on poor spelling
OTOH, I'm infinitely sorry, and I humbly apologize for having Diss'd any Gressions.
Best Regards,
TerryO
maxro said:
The use of disgression is, of course, a matter of personal discretion, but I digress due to distress (I guess).
I think that you've found out the secret as to why I'm such an authority on poor spelling
OTOH, I'm infinitely sorry, and I humbly apologize for having Diss'd any Gressions.
Best Regards,
TerryO
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: turntable question
TerryO, you're cool. i really mean that. have a couple comments about some of the stuff you posted ....
but are you not jumping to an unwarranted conclusion by assuming that is what he meant? yes, perhaps i over reacted a little, but how would you feel if someone comes into your living room for the first time, points at your TT and tells you it is as worthless as garbage and there are better ones in trash cans. all without ever hearing it btw. i don't know about you, but that person would be shown the exterior door very rapidly in my home.
thats very good to know, thanks for telling me. i have actually scored a couple nice repairable vintage receivers from yard sales. tape decks and cd players too.
again you are putting words in this man's mouth. if this is how he feels let him say it not you. you assume too much, especially from stuff you read on the net? language is only like 7 percent of communication the rest is non verbal and that is all removed on the net so keep that in mind. let him say it if he feels it, thats my lesson to you.
i disagree with the first part of that sentence, but agree with the last part very much.
you resort to name calling then attempt to give me lessons on etiquette later? 🙂
very well said. and very true imo.
first of all, im an american. proper english went out the door in like the 1950's. are you like an english teacher or something 🙂
second of all, i have attended meetings/dinners with very high class people that used that word all the time. whoever told you that was a "getto" term was lying to you!
yes and i have and am very grateful for everyone's advice, thank you all !!!
thank you for the compliment and advice, wrapped as it was in a bouquet of condescension.
peace and best regards,
gain.
TerryO, you're cool. i really mean that. have a couple comments about some of the stuff you posted ....
TerryO said:
but are you not jumping to an unwarranted conclusion by assuming that is what he meant? yes, perhaps i over reacted a little, but how would you feel if someone comes into your living room for the first time, points at your TT and tells you it is as worthless as garbage and there are better ones in trash cans. all without ever hearing it btw. i don't know about you, but that person would be shown the exterior door very rapidly in my home.
TerryO said:
thats very good to know, thanks for telling me. i have actually scored a couple nice repairable vintage receivers from yard sales. tape decks and cd players too.
TerryO said:
again you are putting words in this man's mouth. if this is how he feels let him say it not you. you assume too much, especially from stuff you read on the net? language is only like 7 percent of communication the rest is non verbal and that is all removed on the net so keep that in mind. let him say it if he feels it, thats my lesson to you.
TerryO said:
i disagree with the first part of that sentence, but agree with the last part very much.
TerryO said:
you resort to name calling then attempt to give me lessons on etiquette later? 🙂
TerryO said:
very well said. and very true imo.
TerryO said:
first of all, im an american. proper english went out the door in like the 1950's. are you like an english teacher or something 🙂
second of all, i have attended meetings/dinners with very high class people that used that word all the time. whoever told you that was a "getto" term was lying to you!
TerryO said:
yes and i have and am very grateful for everyone's advice, thank you all !!!
TerryO said:
thank you for the compliment and advice, wrapped as it was in a bouquet of condescension.
peace and best regards,
gain.
No offense to you Mr Gain, but TerryO's comment about you're "ghetto slang" was merely trying to point out to you that in the common version of the English language, "disrepect" would be considered to be missing an 's'.
Since it isn't difficult to equip most modern browsers with spell-checking functionality, there's really no excuse for poor spelling on forums. An exception, of course, applies to those who are making a genuine effort to speak a language that is foreign to them, however, speaking United States English will have you well enough understood even to those of us who speak colourfully and understanding metric units.
Sorry about the offtopic post, but I've never met a Yamaha turntable, and I wouldn't want to provide unprovoked generalisations about cheap 80's Japanese "hi-fi".
Since it isn't difficult to equip most modern browsers with spell-checking functionality, there's really no excuse for poor spelling on forums. An exception, of course, applies to those who are making a genuine effort to speak a language that is foreign to them, however, speaking United States English will have you well enough understood even to those of us who speak colourfully and understanding metric units.
Sorry about the offtopic post, but I've never met a Yamaha turntable, and I wouldn't want to provide unprovoked generalisations about cheap 80's Japanese "hi-fi".
(all please note, I didn't read carefully every post in this thread - sorry for any repetitive comments)
I have a Yamaha P-05. Looks very similar to what you have. It is 80's. Doesn't matter early, late, or mid 80's. It's a decently built "consumer" grade TT.
Analog SA is not far off the mark to say it was not high end, and is not worth a lot now. It is a very usable turntable though if you're not looking for the last word in sound quality. ("High end" can be a bit subjective ;-)
I paid $25 or so for mine in the mid 90's. I put a new belt on it, and bought a "low end" Grado cartridge for it. the Grado was something like $60 or so at a hifi shop in southern California - I was in college at the time myself so even that was pushing it. It's easy to install, and worked well after I corrected a phase reversal mistake I made in the wiring ;-)
The turntable has a basic "cheap" or rather not extremely accurate method for setting tracking force via a dial at the back of the tonearm, and it has the anti-skating knob which adjusts a small amount of spring pressure to keep the arm from sliding or "skating" off the record due to natural tracking forces or some such.
I have the manual as well (for the P-05). If it really helps I may be able to scan the main pages of interest and send them to you. Let me know if you would like this (it's not the same exact TT but apparently close)
It sounds OK, good even, not super, and will certainly work just fine until you decide if it is worth it to buy a better 'table. I've always planned to, but for now this one is even packed away anyway until I can find a safe place from my 17month old daughter to keep it in operation ;-)
hope this helps...
-CK
I have a Yamaha P-05. Looks very similar to what you have. It is 80's. Doesn't matter early, late, or mid 80's. It's a decently built "consumer" grade TT.
Analog SA is not far off the mark to say it was not high end, and is not worth a lot now. It is a very usable turntable though if you're not looking for the last word in sound quality. ("High end" can be a bit subjective ;-)
I paid $25 or so for mine in the mid 90's. I put a new belt on it, and bought a "low end" Grado cartridge for it. the Grado was something like $60 or so at a hifi shop in southern California - I was in college at the time myself so even that was pushing it. It's easy to install, and worked well after I corrected a phase reversal mistake I made in the wiring ;-)
The turntable has a basic "cheap" or rather not extremely accurate method for setting tracking force via a dial at the back of the tonearm, and it has the anti-skating knob which adjusts a small amount of spring pressure to keep the arm from sliding or "skating" off the record due to natural tracking forces or some such.
I have the manual as well (for the P-05). If it really helps I may be able to scan the main pages of interest and send them to you. Let me know if you would like this (it's not the same exact TT but apparently close)
It sounds OK, good even, not super, and will certainly work just fine until you decide if it is worth it to buy a better 'table. I've always planned to, but for now this one is even packed away anyway until I can find a safe place from my 17month old daughter to keep it in operation ;-)
hope this helps...
-CK
he didn't say it was a spelling error (which you're right it was). he said it was a "ghetto" slang term. big difference. thats why i set him straight on that.
and just why are you hitting me with these kinda post. not only off topic but arguments about language semantics? who the f cares if i made a typo. you understood what i was saying. what relavance does your comment have to fixing/impoving the sound of a TT?
certainly one of you have changed a cart / needle manually.
how did you do it?
what were the challenging aspects?
how did it sound after?
this is the discussion that matters imho.
and just why are you hitting me with these kinda post. not only off topic but arguments about language semantics? who the f cares if i made a typo. you understood what i was saying. what relavance does your comment have to fixing/impoving the sound of a TT?
certainly one of you have changed a cart / needle manually.
how did you do it?
what were the challenging aspects?
how did it sound after?
this is the discussion that matters imho.
TheSeekerr said:
Spelling is just one area that needs to be watched. It's certainly one of my shortcomings, although I'm much better than I was as a kid.
FWIW, there was an extensive thread on all this awhile ago.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=105596&highlight=
It was very instructive, as well as entertaining.
Best Regards,
TerryO
gain said:
5.5. Set tracking force
6.5. set anti-skate (you can probably leave this at just above 0 to start). If horribly off it will distort the left-right balance as the cartridge will be pushing harder to one side or the other of the groove.
otherwise, that's about it. A test record might help to check everything if you can get a hold of one, but it's not necessary. You'll hear it if anything is way off...
-CK
I find the below a particularly apropos quote from the above linked spelling thread:
"Moral: If you want help, remember not to annoy the people most able to give it." -EC8010
"Moral: If you want help, remember not to annoy the people most able to give it." -EC8010
could you kindly clarify your post for me?
are you communicating that in your opinion i am:
1. annoying you and you are hinting at me indirectly?
2. a.s.s.u.m.e. i am annoying others and thinking you are doing me favor by hinting at me this assumption of yours indirectly?
3. stating a random philosophical quote just for the heck of it cuz its cool to just do that sometimes?
4. something entirely different. please explain if you have time in your busy day.
are you communicating that in your opinion i am:
1. annoying you and you are hinting at me indirectly?
2. a.s.s.u.m.e. i am annoying others and thinking you are doing me favor by hinting at me this assumption of yours indirectly?
3. stating a random philosophical quote just for the heck of it cuz its cool to just do that sometimes?
4. something entirely different. please explain if you have time in your busy day.
And, karma being what it is, I made a grammatical error in my above post, using the wrong "your". Blast!
Sorry Gain, don't mean to give you a hard time. It's not aimed at you specifically so much as the uncounted many who are far worse. That said, I'd read the thread that was linked, there's some good points brought up over there.
Good luck with your TT, I'm sure you'll have all the answers you want if you give this thread another day or so.
Sorry Gain, don't mean to give you a hard time. It's not aimed at you specifically so much as the uncounted many who are far worse. That said, I'd read the thread that was linked, there's some good points brought up over there.
Good luck with your TT, I'm sure you'll have all the answers you want if you give this thread another day or so.
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