I'm interested in building an excellent yet budget-minded tube reference system for achieving the ultimate detail, 3D sound stage/imaging, and instrument separation for jazz (bepop) and classical symphony, and would love to ask the community for input.
My sources are roughly 50/50 vinyl and CD.
What kind of source (turntable or CD player), tube, and speaker configuration would you recommend? I don't mind a mix of DIY and commercial if you happen to know of any great products.
I've been looking into this for a while now but will keep my thoughts quiet for the moment so as not to bias the thread.
Thanks!
Jeff
My sources are roughly 50/50 vinyl and CD.
What kind of source (turntable or CD player), tube, and speaker configuration would you recommend? I don't mind a mix of DIY and commercial if you happen to know of any great products.
I've been looking into this for a while now but will keep my thoughts quiet for the moment so as not to bias the thread.
Thanks!
Jeff
How long is a piece of string?
Everybody is ultimately budget minded. But a billionaire might have to choose between a $20,000 system and a $30,000 system.
Achieving sound clarity in amplifiers (solid sate or tube) is relatively easy. Achieving it is loudspeakers is much more difficult. Same with turntables and pickups. So direct most of your budget, whatever it is, toward speakers and turntables.
If you nominate a budget in dollars, we might give better advice.
What are your construction skills like? Metal work skills? Electronics skills? What test gera do you have?
If it is your first project, it will be best to keep it simple - a simple single ended amp. An ultralinear push pull amp with push pull drivers and pahse splitting at low level can deliver substantially better realism and detail, but isn't for beginners - too much to get wrong.
Do you wish to purchase speakers complete? Or do you wish to purchase the drivers (woofer, squawker, tweeter, crossover parts) and build your own boxes?
Everybody is ultimately budget minded. But a billionaire might have to choose between a $20,000 system and a $30,000 system.
Achieving sound clarity in amplifiers (solid sate or tube) is relatively easy. Achieving it is loudspeakers is much more difficult. Same with turntables and pickups. So direct most of your budget, whatever it is, toward speakers and turntables.
If you nominate a budget in dollars, we might give better advice.
What are your construction skills like? Metal work skills? Electronics skills? What test gera do you have?
If it is your first project, it will be best to keep it simple - a simple single ended amp. An ultralinear push pull amp with push pull drivers and pahse splitting at low level can deliver substantially better realism and detail, but isn't for beginners - too much to get wrong.
Do you wish to purchase speakers complete? Or do you wish to purchase the drivers (woofer, squawker, tweeter, crossover parts) and build your own boxes?
Turntable ? Mistery ! Pick up ? Most people say MCoil are better than MMagnet
Cables ? Mistery ! Preamplifier ? Mistery !! Hopefully SState
Amplifier ? 20/30 W , so push-pull ...
Speaker system ? woofer-midrange-tweeter with 1st/2nd order filters in order to get 3rd/4th acoustical order ( sorry for the redundancy of the term )
Everything should be isolated mechanically, so elastically suspended ...
Cables ? Mistery ! Preamplifier ? Mistery !! Hopefully SState
Amplifier ? 20/30 W , so push-pull ...
Speaker system ? woofer-midrange-tweeter with 1st/2nd order filters in order to get 3rd/4th acoustical order ( sorry for the redundancy of the term )
Everything should be isolated mechanically, so elastically suspended ...
Thanks, everyone. I hadn't looked into the Klipsch Heresy or the KEF LS50 before, so thanks for those suggestions.
I don't have much experience in woodworking or metalworking but I am pretty handy. The extent of my electrical work was with RC cars as a kid, so I know about circuits, a little bit about resistance and capacitance, and how to solder. I've made speaker cables and interconnects that sound really good. I've also just built a smoker out of a steel drum that turned out more precise and better looking than expected. So... probably best to start with amp & speaker kits (recs appreciated!). But if I wanted to go beyond that, there's a fab lab in town that could help me with CNC routing and provide access to a drill press, etc.
Recently my preference for simplicity has guided me toward the idea of a SET amp (i.e. Tubelab SE or Simple SE, Bottlehead SR45, Scott17's KT88) and full-range horn speakers, like the Frugal Horn mk3, Madisound BK-12/16/20, Ron Horn Dallas ii, etc. Since I've never heard single driver speakers before, though, it's hard to trust that they could represent the orchestral complexity of a symphony and its full frequency range, but maybe they can?
Jeff
I don't have much experience in woodworking or metalworking but I am pretty handy. The extent of my electrical work was with RC cars as a kid, so I know about circuits, a little bit about resistance and capacitance, and how to solder. I've made speaker cables and interconnects that sound really good. I've also just built a smoker out of a steel drum that turned out more precise and better looking than expected. So... probably best to start with amp & speaker kits (recs appreciated!). But if I wanted to go beyond that, there's a fab lab in town that could help me with CNC routing and provide access to a drill press, etc.
Recently my preference for simplicity has guided me toward the idea of a SET amp (i.e. Tubelab SE or Simple SE, Bottlehead SR45, Scott17's KT88) and full-range horn speakers, like the Frugal Horn mk3, Madisound BK-12/16/20, Ron Horn Dallas ii, etc. Since I've never heard single driver speakers before, though, it's hard to trust that they could represent the orchestral complexity of a symphony and its full frequency range, but maybe they can?
Jeff
Re single driver speakers:
A true single driver cannot to the job of a multi-driver system. You need a light cone mass to handle the trebble, but you need a big cone area to reproduce the bass - two conflicting requirments.
The usuall way to resolve this conflict is to have separate divers for bass and trebble, or bass, midrange, and trebble, subwoofers, super tweeters, etc.
But seek out and listen to an old Bose 901. In the 901, each speaker handles the full frequency range. But there's lots of drivers, connected in some sort of series-parallel arrangment. So there is sufficient cone area to put out plenty of bass, even though each driver is very small and can handle the trebble. It sounds amazingly good.
In the 1970's there was also a Philips speaker system employing multiple small full range rivers with stunningly good stereo imaging, very smooth response, and excellent all round performance, but they are very rare. It's been on my to-do list for 30 years to use their design methods and see if I can duplicate it. But there has always been something else to do.....
There are essentially three kinds of speaker box relevant to high quality sound:-
1) Horn loaded
2) Bass reflex (more correctly called acoustic phase inversion)
3) Closed box / infinite baffle.
Here are the pros & cons:-
.................... .....Horn..... ....Bass Reflex... .....Inf Baffle
Efficiency........ .....High..... .....Medium....... ......Low
Size............... ...Very big... ...Medium........ .....Small
Freq response.. ....Poor....... ....Good.......... .....Good
Distortion........ ....Medium... ....Low............ .....High
Design ease..... ....Complex.. ...Medium........ .....Low
Few homes have enough room for an adequately sized full range horn. And your significant female may object to them. Their main markets have been movie and stage theaters.
So don't overlook bass reflex. You have the construction skills, and the design theory is not difficult - you use either the Thiele/Small method or the simpler Novak method - both will give you a good design.
Note that, as with almost anything, a very skilled designer can get better results out of a given approach than a poor designer can get out of a theoretically better approach. And one can solve almost any problem with enough ingenuity and enough money. So you will find bass reflexes with lumpy frequency response, infinite baffles with low distortion, etc.
Also, bass reflex boxes can be made smaller by having a long small diameter port - but this increases distortion.
A true single driver cannot to the job of a multi-driver system. You need a light cone mass to handle the trebble, but you need a big cone area to reproduce the bass - two conflicting requirments.
The usuall way to resolve this conflict is to have separate divers for bass and trebble, or bass, midrange, and trebble, subwoofers, super tweeters, etc.
But seek out and listen to an old Bose 901. In the 901, each speaker handles the full frequency range. But there's lots of drivers, connected in some sort of series-parallel arrangment. So there is sufficient cone area to put out plenty of bass, even though each driver is very small and can handle the trebble. It sounds amazingly good.
In the 1970's there was also a Philips speaker system employing multiple small full range rivers with stunningly good stereo imaging, very smooth response, and excellent all round performance, but they are very rare. It's been on my to-do list for 30 years to use their design methods and see if I can duplicate it. But there has always been something else to do.....
There are essentially three kinds of speaker box relevant to high quality sound:-
1) Horn loaded
2) Bass reflex (more correctly called acoustic phase inversion)
3) Closed box / infinite baffle.
Here are the pros & cons:-
.................... .....Horn..... ....Bass Reflex... .....Inf Baffle
Efficiency........ .....High..... .....Medium....... ......Low
Size............... ...Very big... ...Medium........ .....Small
Freq response.. ....Poor....... ....Good.......... .....Good
Distortion........ ....Medium... ....Low............ .....High
Design ease..... ....Complex.. ...Medium........ .....Low
Few homes have enough room for an adequately sized full range horn. And your significant female may object to them. Their main markets have been movie and stage theaters.
So don't overlook bass reflex. You have the construction skills, and the design theory is not difficult - you use either the Thiele/Small method or the simpler Novak method - both will give you a good design.
Note that, as with almost anything, a very skilled designer can get better results out of a given approach than a poor designer can get out of a theoretically better approach. And one can solve almost any problem with enough ingenuity and enough money. So you will find bass reflexes with lumpy frequency response, infinite baffles with low distortion, etc.
Also, bass reflex boxes can be made smaller by having a long small diameter port - but this increases distortion.
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Keit made the KEY point. 
What's the budget?
Medium efficiency speakers, like the DECWARE DM945, will mate very nicely with a cost effective and good sounding "El Cheapo" that's constructed with Dynaclone Z565 O/P trafos and triode/ ultralinear (UL) mode switches. Use triode mode for jazz combos and string quartets. Use UL mode for large scale orchestral works. Triode mode is more "refined", while UL mode yields approx. 2X the power. Add a powered subwoofer, if 32 foot organ stops are "your thing".
Notice that a preamp is unnecessary, when a CDP is the signal source. There are any number of good phono preamp setups available. The tweaked version of the "classic" RCA setup is what I'm associated with. I think it's fair to say put off building a tubed phono preamp, until you get some construction experience under your belt. While you "test the water", Jim Hagerman's Bugle2 will quickly get you listening to vinyl. A 2nd TT, down the road, could be the opamp based design's ultimate destination. 😉
What's the budget?Medium efficiency speakers, like the DECWARE DM945, will mate very nicely with a cost effective and good sounding "El Cheapo" that's constructed with Dynaclone Z565 O/P trafos and triode/ ultralinear (UL) mode switches. Use triode mode for jazz combos and string quartets. Use UL mode for large scale orchestral works. Triode mode is more "refined", while UL mode yields approx. 2X the power. Add a powered subwoofer, if 32 foot organ stops are "your thing".
Notice that a preamp is unnecessary, when a CDP is the signal source. There are any number of good phono preamp setups available. The tweaked version of the "classic" RCA setup is what I'm associated with. I think it's fair to say put off building a tubed phono preamp, until you get some construction experience under your belt. While you "test the water", Jim Hagerman's Bugle2 will quickly get you listening to vinyl. A 2nd TT, down the road, could be the opamp based design's ultimate destination. 😉
Attachments
This is very informative, particularly the enclosure comparison chart and the "El Cheapo" amp, which I hadn't heard of before. Thank you.
Budget for the whole system (turntable, phonostage, preamp, amp, speakers) would need to be around $3,000-$3,500, though I could go a little higher if offsetting the cost by selling some of my current equipment, which ideally I'd rather not do.
My current system consists mainly of entry-level components from the turn of the millenium:
* Arcam A75 integrated SS (50wpc continuous)
* Sony CA70ES CD player (could probably upgrade here too)
* Yamaha PF-20 turntable (from a relative's basement, just to listen to records)
* Paradigm Reference Studio 100 v2 floorstanders
The Paradigms are rated to 350watts input and give much better detail and soundstage with higher wattage and higher current amps (so I've read). So, the easiest and probably cheapest thing to do would be to buy/build a better turntable and a high wattage/high current tube amp (integrated or not) to drive the Paradigms. I mean, they're not bad at all; they just don't have that effortless, airy, transient magic that I've heard from simpler speakers with tube amps. But with more power/current or a different amp their character might change.
I suppose I could also just run the Arcam's preamp outputs to SS monoblocks or an SS power amp with higher wattage/current (Rotel 1080, 1090, Outlaw model 2200 are all recommended for my speakers). But I love the tube sound.
Budget for the whole system (turntable, phonostage, preamp, amp, speakers) would need to be around $3,000-$3,500, though I could go a little higher if offsetting the cost by selling some of my current equipment, which ideally I'd rather not do.
My current system consists mainly of entry-level components from the turn of the millenium:
* Arcam A75 integrated SS (50wpc continuous)
* Sony CA70ES CD player (could probably upgrade here too)
* Yamaha PF-20 turntable (from a relative's basement, just to listen to records)
* Paradigm Reference Studio 100 v2 floorstanders
The Paradigms are rated to 350watts input and give much better detail and soundstage with higher wattage and higher current amps (so I've read). So, the easiest and probably cheapest thing to do would be to buy/build a better turntable and a high wattage/high current tube amp (integrated or not) to drive the Paradigms. I mean, they're not bad at all; they just don't have that effortless, airy, transient magic that I've heard from simpler speakers with tube amps. But with more power/current or a different amp their character might change.
I suppose I could also just run the Arcam's preamp outputs to SS monoblocks or an SS power amp with higher wattage/current (Rotel 1080, 1090, Outlaw model 2200 are all recommended for my speakers). But I love the tube sound.
You have some thinking to do then.
Your speakers need a high power amp, and a high quality amp to do them justice. But your electronics construction experience is not up to constructing such an amp. If you want to build a tube amp, start off with a simple relatively low power single ended amp. Until you have built an amplifier or two, or three... the probability of getting a nice sound out of a simple SE amp is about the same as the probability of getting bad results out of a more sophisticated high power amp.
You said you want "a reference system...ultimate detail...instrument separation" in your first post. These words specify a low distortion, accurate amplifier. Now you say you love the tube sound. So you don't want accuracy and low distortion? Either desire is perfectly valid, but they are mutually exclusive.
An accurate tube amp sounds the same as an accurate solid state amp - because they are both accurately giving out what goes in.
A tube amp sounds different to a solid state amp because either or both are distorting the signal in some way. The distortions that are typical in a tube amp are different to the distortions typical in a solid state amp. So they sound different, and it happens that for most people tube distortion is not as tiring as solid state distortion. Some even like it. But distortion of either or any sort muddies the signal. obscures detail, and diminishes clarity and instrument separation.
So, have a think about what you really want. Audition some friend's systems if you can. Seek out someone who's gone for clarity and somone who's gone for unique sound.
Your speakers need a high power amp, and a high quality amp to do them justice. But your electronics construction experience is not up to constructing such an amp. If you want to build a tube amp, start off with a simple relatively low power single ended amp. Until you have built an amplifier or two, or three... the probability of getting a nice sound out of a simple SE amp is about the same as the probability of getting bad results out of a more sophisticated high power amp.
You said you want "a reference system...ultimate detail...instrument separation" in your first post. These words specify a low distortion, accurate amplifier. Now you say you love the tube sound. So you don't want accuracy and low distortion? Either desire is perfectly valid, but they are mutually exclusive.
An accurate tube amp sounds the same as an accurate solid state amp - because they are both accurately giving out what goes in.
A tube amp sounds different to a solid state amp because either or both are distorting the signal in some way. The distortions that are typical in a tube amp are different to the distortions typical in a solid state amp. So they sound different, and it happens that for most people tube distortion is not as tiring as solid state distortion. Some even like it. But distortion of either or any sort muddies the signal. obscures detail, and diminishes clarity and instrument separation.
So, have a think about what you really want. Audition some friend's systems if you can. Seek out someone who's gone for clarity and somone who's gone for unique sound.
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The budget is not generous, for a "reference" system. A superior TT, arm, and cartridge combination costs more than the amount mentioned. 🙁 A SME Series V arm alone costs over $5000.
A possibility is keeping the OK, but inefficient, Paradigm speakers. Use 1st rate SS power amplification and good tubed preamplification. $2000 buys an AVA 225 WPC amp that will make your speakers perform to their max. I have 1st hand experience with AVA. Their stuff is GOOD.
If you can get some money out of selling the Paradigms, DECWARE DM945s would give you the efficiency to make cost effective tubed amplification feasible.
Sony ES components are pretty decent. Keep the CDP, until you have the funds to purchase something truly better.
A possibility is keeping the OK, but inefficient, Paradigm speakers. Use 1st rate SS power amplification and good tubed preamplification. $2000 buys an AVA 225 WPC amp that will make your speakers perform to their max. I have 1st hand experience with AVA. Their stuff is GOOD.
If you can get some money out of selling the Paradigms, DECWARE DM945s would give you the efficiency to make cost effective tubed amplification feasible.
Sony ES components are pretty decent. Keep the CDP, until you have the funds to purchase something truly better.
What about a full range transmission line speaker? I have a pair of Bob Brines designed TL speakers with Fostex 206e drivers and I'm always amazed by the amount of low frequency they reproduce, also imaging / sound stage is quite good (compared to other speakers I've used).
I was also thinking about budget if he's including a turntable in the $3K amount... You'll get a fairly mediocre turntable if you need to keep the budget for it to around $1000 or less..
I've got a Rega Planar 3 with Nagaoka MP-110 cartridge, and it does okay for my needs, but honestly there are a lot of things I wish it did better, it's definitely on the lower end of the scale as far as turntable quality and I spent probably $600 on the table and cartridge.. But yea, to get a high quality turntable and cartridge you're looking at AT LEAST $3K, and that's likely debatable.
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A fair question.
I didn't include transmission line speakers in my simple comparision because:-
a) While I have designed and built infinite baffle and bass reflex types (including IB types for commercial manufacture), and I have experience of horn types, bass reflex and infinite baffle types designed by others, I have no personal knowlege of transmission line types.
b) Transmision lines types seldom appear in electronics construction magazines and driver manufacturer application notes/books, and don't seem to be commercially important.
This is not to suggest that transmission line speakers can't give a good account of themselves - but I can't write authoritively about things I'm not knowledgeable on.
Having said that, I have the impression (in other words I might be wrong) gained from reading the odd article of them that I have read, that for a given performance spec they will be larger than a bass reflex, give equally low distortion, and have an efficiency midway between infinite baffle and bass reflex. They will require a bass driver with a lower cone resonance than for bass reflex. Design should be straightforward by there's more to it than for infinite baffle.
Transmission line speakers can be regarded as an improved infinite baffle variant - except for cost.
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One question comes to my mind, How loud do you like your music?
This has a lot to do with what you build.
According to my RS SPL meter, I listen at fairly modest levels. As such I can get by with low power amps.
I have Klipsch Heresy speakers and find a 10W PP amp is quite adequate for loud music. I've driven them with a 3W/C SE amp and was quite happy with the combination.
I also have an old STR-5800SD rated at 56W/C and a DH-200 200W/C amp and find little difference between the latter two and the 10W PP amp at levels I listen to.
I attribute a lot of it to the efficiency of the Heresy speakers.
This has a lot to do with what you build.
According to my RS SPL meter, I listen at fairly modest levels. As such I can get by with low power amps.
I have Klipsch Heresy speakers and find a 10W PP amp is quite adequate for loud music. I've driven them with a 3W/C SE amp and was quite happy with the combination.
I also have an old STR-5800SD rated at 56W/C and a DH-200 200W/C amp and find little difference between the latter two and the 10W PP amp at levels I listen to.
I attribute a lot of it to the efficiency of the Heresy speakers.
Well, I guess I'm coming from a somewhat different frame of reference, since the Rega Planar 3 was the source in the first hi-fi system I'd ever heard. Basically, I've been on a quest to reproduce the magic of that system, but without quite the budget that it would require. (I know, magic costs money.) The system my friend had in place for a couple of months during 2001-2002 was as follows:
* Rega Planar 3 (don't know what cartridge)
* George Wright phonostage, preamp, and 300b monoblocks
* JM Lab Electra 905 MTM on stands
One afternoon we listened to a late 1950s recording of Beethoven's 9th symphony on vinyl (not sure which one).
It. Was. Jawdropping.
We could hear all the individual instruments in the orchestra realized in a 3D space that extended far beyond the walls of the room, as if we were in the perfect spot of the auditorium. It was a technical marvel, of course, but most impressive was the profound emotional experience of the performance, which felt live. As a musician and a music lover, I've always enjoyed my stereo systems. But until that day, I had no idea that recorded music could do that.
Flash forward many years of graduate school, itinerant academic life, and 2 kids -- the desire to build such a system has always been on my mind but I'm finally at a place where I can start to do it. The Paradigms were the first step in that process, a reward for finishing a long project. I intended them to fulfill the need for better frequency reproduction than the JM Lab Chorus 706 TM bookshelf speakers I'd been listening to for 13 years, and which choked on complex orchestration like symphonies. The Paradigms might have been overcompensation.
At any rate, the cost of what I consider to be excellent sound reproduction might be substantially lower than what some of you consider excellent. Unfortunately, in Tulsa OK I don't really have the opportunity to listen to many hi-fi systems as options here are limited and tend towards multichannel home theater, rather than 2-channel audio. I've been to a couple of shops that sell Focal, Totem, Parasound, Montana, and so on, but just haven't been impressed with the equipment I've auditioned there.
Given the feedback so far, it seems a decent, semi-DIY, kit-based tube system for symphonic classical might look something like this:
* Rega Planar 3 TT (~$600-$700)
* Bottlehead Reduction phono preamp ($369)
* Bottlehead Stereomour integrated (2A3 or 45) -- $850
* Klipsch Heresy III ($1700) or Decware 945 ($995) or KEF LS50 ($1499)
Even with the pair of Klipsch, that would come to about $2550 (not including shipping, etc.), so there could even be some headroom for more expensive components where they count. Like maybe the Bottlehead Paramount 300b/2A3 monoblock kit at ~$1700.
Thanks for the tip on the Bob Brines TLs. The Tang Band and 8" Fostex models look very promising.
I have no measuring equipment (yet), but I tend to listen at what I consider to be moderate to low volumes, largely because I usually have to do it after my kids are asleep. Occasionally we'll rock out to something like Johnny Cash or Black Sabbath and really let it rip. But the listening I intend for the tube system would be primarily critical appreciation of things like Beethoven & Mahler symphonies, Schubert lieder (piano/vocal), Miles Davis, and so on, at moderate volume.
* Rega Planar 3 (don't know what cartridge)
* George Wright phonostage, preamp, and 300b monoblocks
* JM Lab Electra 905 MTM on stands
One afternoon we listened to a late 1950s recording of Beethoven's 9th symphony on vinyl (not sure which one).
It. Was. Jawdropping.
We could hear all the individual instruments in the orchestra realized in a 3D space that extended far beyond the walls of the room, as if we were in the perfect spot of the auditorium. It was a technical marvel, of course, but most impressive was the profound emotional experience of the performance, which felt live. As a musician and a music lover, I've always enjoyed my stereo systems. But until that day, I had no idea that recorded music could do that.
Flash forward many years of graduate school, itinerant academic life, and 2 kids -- the desire to build such a system has always been on my mind but I'm finally at a place where I can start to do it. The Paradigms were the first step in that process, a reward for finishing a long project. I intended them to fulfill the need for better frequency reproduction than the JM Lab Chorus 706 TM bookshelf speakers I'd been listening to for 13 years, and which choked on complex orchestration like symphonies. The Paradigms might have been overcompensation.
At any rate, the cost of what I consider to be excellent sound reproduction might be substantially lower than what some of you consider excellent. Unfortunately, in Tulsa OK I don't really have the opportunity to listen to many hi-fi systems as options here are limited and tend towards multichannel home theater, rather than 2-channel audio. I've been to a couple of shops that sell Focal, Totem, Parasound, Montana, and so on, but just haven't been impressed with the equipment I've auditioned there.
Given the feedback so far, it seems a decent, semi-DIY, kit-based tube system for symphonic classical might look something like this:
* Rega Planar 3 TT (~$600-$700)
* Bottlehead Reduction phono preamp ($369)
* Bottlehead Stereomour integrated (2A3 or 45) -- $850
* Klipsch Heresy III ($1700) or Decware 945 ($995) or KEF LS50 ($1499)
Even with the pair of Klipsch, that would come to about $2550 (not including shipping, etc.), so there could even be some headroom for more expensive components where they count. Like maybe the Bottlehead Paramount 300b/2A3 monoblock kit at ~$1700.
Thanks for the tip on the Bob Brines TLs. The Tang Band and 8" Fostex models look very promising.
I have no measuring equipment (yet), but I tend to listen at what I consider to be moderate to low volumes, largely because I usually have to do it after my kids are asleep. Occasionally we'll rock out to something like Johnny Cash or Black Sabbath and really let it rip. But the listening I intend for the tube system would be primarily critical appreciation of things like Beethoven & Mahler symphonies, Schubert lieder (piano/vocal), Miles Davis, and so on, at moderate volume.
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Don't get my wrong, my Rega Planar 3 sounds great in my opinion, but the design of the motor mounting, and the fact that's a somewhat noisy AC motor (in my opinion) annoy me a little bit. Ideally I'd like to isolate the motor from the plinth.
I also wish the table had a vertial tracking angle adjustment. I suppose the tracking could be better too (thought it does have an anti-skate adjustment which can be tuned in pretty well), and I really don't feel like it would be worth getting into higher end tonearms on this table, but I'm specifically avoiding going to far down the turntable rabbit hole.
If I spent another $500 or so on upgrades I could probably resolve some of those issues I have with the table.
As for the Bob Brines cabinets, I posted on the forum here at one point and asked a few questions, Bob is an active member of this forum as well, and one thing he pointed out is that (at least with the LT-2000 cabinets I have) they sound pretty good with the older Fostex 206e drivers, but not the newer 206en drivers.. He has played around with both and couldn't make the 206en drivers sound good. I guess there are some fairly significant differences between the two models.
That being said I think those Tang-band drivers that he recommends (Tang Band W8-1772) with the TL cabinets are quite nice.
In my opinion you're on a good track with a Planar 3 and 300B monoblocks. I'm sure it would be a nice combination. As for a phono stage you might want to consider a Boozhound phono stage kit. I built one and I'm extremely happy with it, it's not too expensive and a lot of guys seem to like them. DIY electronics kits for curious record lovers and audiophiles
He sells an RIAA PCB kit, as well as a moving coil kit to add to that if you have an MC cartridge, and he even has a power supply kit now as well. You'd have to put your own chassis together, but it's not a hard kit to put together.
Further on speakers, I haven't heard a lot of high end stuff, but I have heard the Kef LS50 speakers (someone mentioned those earlier), and they did indeed sound really really great, but their sensitivity is fairly low 85db @ 1w/1m. That being said, I also auditioned some Harbeth M30's (which are also low senstivity) a few days ago with a 7W SET amp I built, and they sounded absolutely amazing, and surprisingly still loud enough (for me) with the 7Wpc amp..
I don't know, I guess what I'm also saying is you might want to try to audition some stuff.. Find some guys locally that are into the type of audio gear you're interested in and check it out.. Most guys are rather proud of their equipment and are more than happy to let other's listen.
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Man, just when I feel like I'm getting a handle on everything that's out there, you guys come back with more and more. I love it! Thanks!
Don't overlook that the right speakers in the right placement in a room of the right dimensions can do that - aided by a judicious bit of out-of-phase crosstalk between the two channels.
Also, recording producers in the 1950's often used Blumlien paired microphone placement, which can support such imaging with the right speakers in the right placement in the room.
You could easily spend a lot of time and money and not hear that effect so good again - untill you find another good 1950's recording and move your speakers and your sitting spot around in the room.
Later on, recording people preferred to use multiple mikes and 16-channel recording, mixing down to a stereo pair, after recording is long done, with pan pots. This gives better ability to overcome studio limitations and give a more consistent sound on the range of stereo reproducing equipment people have - but won't give the effect you noticed on that old vinyl - unless the mixdown guys really know what they are doing- and work with the mike guys.
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I personally love my single driver "full range" big horn speakers, more than any multi-way setup I've heard..
BUT........ I do have 2 sub's in the room, to fill in the bass. I guess that makes it more like a 2 way setup, but the primary drivers are almost full range. The subs full in under 50hz. They aren't next to the main speakers, either... So this setup gives some flexibility for adjusting the speakers for the room they're in.
I don't have a lot of experience w/ speakers though.. I guess I'm really comparing basic consumer class multi-way's w/ relatively high end single driver horns.
BUT........ I do have 2 sub's in the room, to fill in the bass. I guess that makes it more like a 2 way setup, but the primary drivers are almost full range. The subs full in under 50hz. They aren't next to the main speakers, either... So this setup gives some flexibility for adjusting the speakers for the room they're in.
I don't have a lot of experience w/ speakers though.. I guess I'm really comparing basic consumer class multi-way's w/ relatively high end single driver horns.
Heck yes, I'll grind my own axe. Money IS an important consideration. "El Cheapo" is a tightwad's project. 😀 The name is not accidental. A pair of Dynaclone Z565 O/P trafos costs $180. A complete set of power "iron" can be ordered from Allied Electronics, for well under $100. Jim McShane sells kits of parts, for the project. A large, heavy walled, commercial kitchen, aluminum, baking pan makes for a cost effective, strong, chassis.
Another way to contain costs is to build around 1 of the PCB based designs of Tubelab.
Magnetics are a large part of the cost of tubed power amplification. At every power level, push/pull "iron" costs less.
If an all "Bottlehead" setup is acquired, a line stage has to be added to the "collection".
Several quite satisfactory, if not creme de la creme, TT/arm/cart. combos are available. This is but 1 of them. Shop around. Needle Doctor is another vendor to check out.
A project of acquisition and overhaul of a Harman/Kardon Citation II would allow you to keep the Paradigm speakers in service. Such a project will cost $2000 or a bit more. However, there is good news in the fact that a low cost passive control center is all that's needed for the "line" section. Be advised that a "Deuce" is as honest as a summer day is long. That might not be "tubey" enough, for some people. If what's in the record groove is your pleasure, the "Deuce" is VERY hard to beat,
Another way to contain costs is to build around 1 of the PCB based designs of Tubelab.
Magnetics are a large part of the cost of tubed power amplification. At every power level, push/pull "iron" costs less.
If an all "Bottlehead" setup is acquired, a line stage has to be added to the "collection".
Several quite satisfactory, if not creme de la creme, TT/arm/cart. combos are available. This is but 1 of them. Shop around. Needle Doctor is another vendor to check out.
A project of acquisition and overhaul of a Harman/Kardon Citation II would allow you to keep the Paradigm speakers in service. Such a project will cost $2000 or a bit more. However, there is good news in the fact that a low cost passive control center is all that's needed for the "line" section. Be advised that a "Deuce" is as honest as a summer day is long. That might not be "tubey" enough, for some people. If what's in the record groove is your pleasure, the "Deuce" is VERY hard to beat,
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