Sorry if i got ansy, but my lack of money plus my high standards alsways result in frustration.
The reason why i'm not going for other technology is because she wants to play her own record collection. She's not going to searching online to download them either. Shes kind of anti technology... But shes not so old that she's going to drop her records. She might have noticed a 3% speed difference, but 1% only i can, and at 0.15% its almost impossible to hear. But i pride myself in the quality of my work. So i wouldn't be happy giving it to her if i could easily tell that its wrong...
Personally i'd love an old TT like those you suggested, but whatever dollerydoos i've saved have since become worthless as a currency = even more frustration. Whilst i did buy it around 15 years ago, it was second hand, dated 1976, so almost 50 years now. I replaced her old TT as it gave up the ghost.
Unfortunately i've missed all the good deals for now, but after i move in the near future, i wouldn't mind getting a good TT for myself even if it needs a bit of TLC and a restoration. (It is after all, how i save money) but i will likely be on a tight budget, but i also wont tolerate cheap chinesium either
The reason why i'm not going for other technology is because she wants to play her own record collection. She's not going to searching online to download them either. Shes kind of anti technology... But shes not so old that she's going to drop her records. She might have noticed a 3% speed difference, but 1% only i can, and at 0.15% its almost impossible to hear. But i pride myself in the quality of my work. So i wouldn't be happy giving it to her if i could easily tell that its wrong...
Personally i'd love an old TT like those you suggested, but whatever dollerydoos i've saved have since become worthless as a currency = even more frustration. Whilst i did buy it around 15 years ago, it was second hand, dated 1976, so almost 50 years now. I replaced her old TT as it gave up the ghost.
Unfortunately i've missed all the good deals for now, but after i move in the near future, i wouldn't mind getting a good TT for myself even if it needs a bit of TLC and a restoration. (It is after all, how i save money) but i will likely be on a tight budget, but i also wont tolerate cheap chinesium either
Tight $ is usually a challenge. Been there. 🙁🙄
This was one of my most successful refurbs, with a plinth from Jatoba solid wood I milled:
Started with mediocre condition TD125 for CA$300 from an old contact in Vancouver who'd stashed it in his garage for 5+ years. Rebuilt & replaced just about everything. Don't want to think about how much time & effort went into it! Sold it for something like $1500 but I made way less than minimum wage. 😆
Duals can be improved a lot too. I replace the plinth with a hardwood or Baltic Birch one that I build, adjust and lubricate everything, loosen the springs for "freer" bounce, etc.
But the Technics SL-series tangental trackers really are amazing. Total automation, great size & shockingly good performance. My best deal with those that was an SL-5 I picked up for like CA$100 from someone who just wanted it gone. Easily competitive with any Dual, perhaps better than many or most of the Thorens! I sold it a while ago but kind of regret it. 🙁
This was one of my most successful refurbs, with a plinth from Jatoba solid wood I milled:
Started with mediocre condition TD125 for CA$300 from an old contact in Vancouver who'd stashed it in his garage for 5+ years. Rebuilt & replaced just about everything. Don't want to think about how much time & effort went into it! Sold it for something like $1500 but I made way less than minimum wage. 😆
Duals can be improved a lot too. I replace the plinth with a hardwood or Baltic Birch one that I build, adjust and lubricate everything, loosen the springs for "freer" bounce, etc.
But the Technics SL-series tangental trackers really are amazing. Total automation, great size & shockingly good performance. My best deal with those that was an SL-5 I picked up for like CA$100 from someone who just wanted it gone. Easily competitive with any Dual, perhaps better than many or most of the Thorens! I sold it a while ago but kind of regret it. 🙁
Hi all.
Please ignore this if it's already discussed! I used to have a Thorens TD-147 that I bought used. It was slightly too fast. After lots of head scratching, I replaced the belt with one that was the right size for the turntable. Music pitch became the same as what came out of my CD player.
Culprit? The belt was sligthly too small, it was stretched a tiny bit which made its thickness smaller. Since the gear ratio needs to be measured halfway through the thickness of the belt, the ratio was changed, noticeably to a human ear--especially when comparing A/B with a CD of the same music.
Solution was essentially free: a correct belt that did not end up stretched.
Again, if I restated what's in another post, my apologies. I am writing this during a work meeting that is boring...
BTW 60 Hz in North America is derived from atomic clocks and is reliable.
--Christian
Please ignore this if it's already discussed! I used to have a Thorens TD-147 that I bought used. It was slightly too fast. After lots of head scratching, I replaced the belt with one that was the right size for the turntable. Music pitch became the same as what came out of my CD player.
Culprit? The belt was sligthly too small, it was stretched a tiny bit which made its thickness smaller. Since the gear ratio needs to be measured halfway through the thickness of the belt, the ratio was changed, noticeably to a human ear--especially when comparing A/B with a CD of the same music.
Solution was essentially free: a correct belt that did not end up stretched.
Again, if I restated what's in another post, my apologies. I am writing this during a work meeting that is boring...
BTW 60 Hz in North America is derived from atomic clocks and is reliable.
--Christian
Thanks Christian 🙂
Stretched belt theory was slightly mentioned. Theory is stretched =thinner belt thickness=changed drive ratio... And whilst true in theory, my experience has been the opposite. A loose belt gave a higher speed and a tight belt gave a lower speed. I think the reason is either friction or something else. Remember the amount of belt tension or stretch should be consistant on both drive pulley and platter. Let's look at the math... E.g. effective diameter of pulley vs platter normal e.g. 10:100 vs stretched is effective diameter is reduced by e.g. -1 = 9:99. If you calculate, you'll find the latter actually gives a lower drive ratio, thus a lower final speed.
Unless I understand this wrong and my math is backwards? 😅
Edit
Also I forgot to mention that I wasn't able to find the correct original belt length, width or thickness, despite that I had looked through manuals (only gave a part number). I even tried looking at 3rd party replacements specifically for this TT (searched by model and/or part number) but still I couldn't find the belt dimensions online.
So I was reliant on the 'professional' at the hifi retail shop. His experience recommended a tight belt at first, but final speed was far too slow. We tried two more larger belt sizes, and the speed increased only very slightly (about 0.1~0.2 rpms). So I settled on the largest size of 195... But again, since I don't know the original size, I can't say for sure what factor has a larger total effect. It might even be due to doing more mechanical work by distorting the rubber shape (strain energy). Or it could be something else entirely, I'm not so sure about friction as cleaning and adding lubrication inside the motor and platter bearings made exactly 0.00% difference...🧐
Stretched belt theory was slightly mentioned. Theory is stretched =thinner belt thickness=changed drive ratio... And whilst true in theory, my experience has been the opposite. A loose belt gave a higher speed and a tight belt gave a lower speed. I think the reason is either friction or something else. Remember the amount of belt tension or stretch should be consistant on both drive pulley and platter. Let's look at the math... E.g. effective diameter of pulley vs platter normal e.g. 10:100 vs stretched is effective diameter is reduced by e.g. -1 = 9:99. If you calculate, you'll find the latter actually gives a lower drive ratio, thus a lower final speed.
Unless I understand this wrong and my math is backwards? 😅
Edit
Also I forgot to mention that I wasn't able to find the correct original belt length, width or thickness, despite that I had looked through manuals (only gave a part number). I even tried looking at 3rd party replacements specifically for this TT (searched by model and/or part number) but still I couldn't find the belt dimensions online.
So I was reliant on the 'professional' at the hifi retail shop. His experience recommended a tight belt at first, but final speed was far too slow. We tried two more larger belt sizes, and the speed increased only very slightly (about 0.1~0.2 rpms). So I settled on the largest size of 195... But again, since I don't know the original size, I can't say for sure what factor has a larger total effect. It might even be due to doing more mechanical work by distorting the rubber shape (strain energy). Or it could be something else entirely, I'm not so sure about friction as cleaning and adding lubrication inside the motor and platter bearings made exactly 0.00% difference...🧐
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If the TT in question is based on the Pioneer PL10/PL12, you can try the Blue Belt made of silicone:
https://dindiki.com/?turntable
https://dindiki.com/?turntable
The daily AVERAGE is pretty much that, but over minutes and hours it can vary significantly (the line frequency is physically locked to big rotating generators, which do change speed with varying load, but there's a lot of equipment used to keep the variation small). There's plenty of info on this online.
https://www.google.com/search?q=What+is+the+frequency+tolerance+in+the+US
Sorry this is going to be off topic but... Don't worry ben, I'm not that dumb 😅 not to mention that whatever "advanced atomic clock technology" is used in North America, it's completely irrelevant to me in Australia lol our base load is provided by vintage coal fired power stations (3 phase induction generators coupled to steam turbines). Sure, maybe one could argue that rpms are throttled mechanically regulating steam flow and load management via normal computer control (clock speed referenced to crystal oscillators)... But it's really an absurd stretch to say mains Freq is locked by atomic clocks 😂 😂😂... Maybe you could argue dc-ac inverters used in solar power and battery storage are 'crystal locked' ... But the point is completely moot when you can easily measure Freq deviations at home with just a multi meter 😂
Wikipedia:
"In the synchronous grid of Continental Europe, the deviation between network phase time and UTC (based on International Atomic Time) is calculated at 08:00 each day in a control center in Switzerland. The target frequency is then adjusted by up to ±0.01 Hz (±0.02%) from 50 Hz as needed, to ensure a long-term frequency average of exactly 50 Hz × 60 s/min × 60 min/h × 24 h/d = 4320000 cycles per day.[21] In North America, whenever the error exceeds 10 seconds for the Eastern Interconnection, 3 seconds for the Texas Interconnection, or 2 seconds for the Western Interconnection, a correction of ±0.02 Hz (0.033%) is applied. Time error corrections start and end either on the hour or on the half-hour.[22][23]"
0.033% is smaller than the +/- 0.5% quoted in your Google search link. Power is routinely sold/bought by the minutes between NY state and Québec, and switching needs to be done at zero crossings. This can only be done if both grids are synchronized. We're talking two different countries. I had in my office an old Simplex synchronous clock that was accurate to within a minute over many months. I hated having to screw that up by moving it by an hour twice a year... --Christian
There's a hydro plant in Yelm, WA that generates power for Centralia. Back before 9/11 (after which the barb-wire fences went up) I got a kindly offered tour of the plant. They still had some of the vintage frequency monitoring apparatus; one of which looked like the insides of a harmonica - I suppose the tines vibrated to whatever the frequency the generator(s) were making! At the time of my tour of course it was all computer controlled.
We used those in college, the new ones are all digital.
The reed type meters were accurate to about 0.5 Hz, and were expensive,
For better resolution, we used oscilloscopes.
Now frequency is a function on many digital meters, though they may not all be very accurate.
Even the power factor meters are digital now...and a lot more accurate, the pointer type units were wildly inaccurate at ligh loads.
Now we get plug and socket units with a multiple function display for a modest price, which is adequate for most purposes, up to about 2kW.
You plug it into a socket, and connect your load to its built in socket, it shows many parameters, like V, A ,W, kW, kW (Reactive), frequency, power factor and so on.
A panel type meter with similar functions is also available. You have to make a box and test bench for that.
And that can be scaled with a CR/PT unit for higher currents.
The reed type meters were accurate to about 0.5 Hz, and were expensive,
For better resolution, we used oscilloscopes.
Now frequency is a function on many digital meters, though they may not all be very accurate.
Even the power factor meters are digital now...and a lot more accurate, the pointer type units were wildly inaccurate at ligh loads.
Now we get plug and socket units with a multiple function display for a modest price, which is adequate for most purposes, up to about 2kW.
You plug it into a socket, and connect your load to its built in socket, it shows many parameters, like V, A ,W, kW, kW (Reactive), frequency, power factor and so on.
A panel type meter with similar functions is also available. You have to make a box and test bench for that.
And that can be scaled with a CR/PT unit for higher currents.
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One of my turntables is a DIY job I knocked up using a JVC synchronous AC motor, associated platter and good quality replacement belt for that JVC. The rest is DIY, made so I have a turntable while I refurbish a direct drive table. I never have any issues with noticeable pitch variation in the music (and I'm in Australia). Apparently PRB belts are supposed to be good, so that's what I got. The website is archaic, but the belts are very common. I didn't look to see if yours was listed. https://www.russellind.com/prbline/prb.htm
Flywheel, Shyster and Flywheel...
Any body understand the reference?
Get the the platter checked for runout and balance, should not happen, naybe a weight came off.
Ensure proper lubrication and mechanical fitting are okay.
May be a sticky bush, clean off old lube, soak the bushes overnight in oil, engine oil works, and put a new belt, like above, if there is a tension variation you will have speed variation.
Do a service of the motor as well.
Use regular grease while fitting the oiled bushes, that works very well.
It keeps the oil from drying out, so you have less maintenance later.
Any body understand the reference?
Get the the platter checked for runout and balance, should not happen, naybe a weight came off.
Ensure proper lubrication and mechanical fitting are okay.
May be a sticky bush, clean off old lube, soak the bushes overnight in oil, engine oil works, and put a new belt, like above, if there is a tension variation you will have speed variation.
Do a service of the motor as well.
Use regular grease while fitting the oiled bushes, that works very well.
It keeps the oil from drying out, so you have less maintenance later.
Love creating hifi equipment
Joined 2023
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