Troel's new big 3 way classic

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#61
I built a pair of Troel's TJL3W speakers (SEAS excel magnesium drivers) in 2008. I was critical of Troel's voicing at the time, but in hindsight was likely wrong. It took time to realise that I needed MUCH more headroom for speakers in my room. The tweeter was SPL limited to 98db/1w/1m and I was playing average levels of 90db+ at that distance to get reasonable levels at my seat some 6+meters away.

But life is about the journey. The speaker sounded rolled off on the top end. Subsequent tests and experience revealed:

The roll off was not the problem. -4th order crossovers have never sounded as good as lower orders to my ears when working on subsequent designs.

-when the speaker is pushed, the mid and bass have MUCH more headroom than the tweeter. This means this design should never be pushed, and EQ is no help.

I have found over time that my priority is dynamics over soundstage. At low levels, and placed close to the listener (<2m), the soundstage on these speakers was amazing. I took little interest in what Troels was doing over the subsequent years. Until recently I noticed that his favorite speaker at a high end show was the Living Voice Vox Olimpian. What are the odds that this is also mine?

Many highly experienced designers have also come to the conclusion over many years that some of their favorite speakers are similar in layout, (Olsen etc). Perhaps when experts who have built 100+ designs come to similar conclusions, their is somthing too it.

I think it may just be that the 1"/1.5" horn and big bass driver has the right proportion of direct vs reflected sound. Combined with lots of headroom, and low distortion, the loss of imaging due to sharp corners etc is a loss, but not one that reduces enjoyment of the music. Whereas power compression,4pi flat total power response and low diffraction just look good on charts and are not as high a priority to dopamine levels.
 
#62
There must be something with those big element speaker ,like Troels G new one

He plays a number with Johny Cash,,,i have newer heard this nummer sound so good,,so must alive,, with big sound stage,,
heard also a LP record from 1964 with Dean Martin,,,it was amazing,,

but ,as always, it come to a matter of taste,,
 
#67
Hi
i am not totally finish with my experiment ,,,

and yes it is a great speaker The Loudspeaker,,,perfekt to give live feeling

in this time i am using this tweeter..instead of the Fostex on top

Beyma tpl-200/hr, high-revolution! dipole special black version-A.M.T. tweeters | eBay

i am not finish with the filter,,,but the Beyma is crossover about 4,5khz

beyma is mount as dipole ,,,give a very nice open sound

i will return when i am ready with the filter

the reason why i try this Beyma,,,i have heard it and like the sound from it,,so why not try
Best Bjarne
 
#69
Hi Bjarne,

thanks for your reply, believe it or not, i have nearly the same idea and just ordered an ESS AMT 1 for an tweeter upgrade. The Fostex is good but it seems to go different, maybe better ....

Please report on your progress.

Regards Thomas
 
#72
Hi Thomas
have you tried the AMT ?

a little update from me on my The Loudspeaker

i play now with Beyma TPL200 High-Revolution version

sit on top instead of the Fostex Horn

crossover is about 4,5khz

i have now a sound i really like (not a day and night difference ) but a more clear-open and airy tweeter sound

for me,, a really great speaker is now a little bit better .

it is important to make the crossover, so it give a frequency curve ,that is close to original with the Fostex,,,,but with a little more level

Best Bjarne
 
#74
oh that is a long delivery time,,,

i have also tried TPL200 as dipole and i think i will try it again,,,but it is more difficult to make crossover ,,TPL200 measure not so good in dipole,,,and it is necessary with a big notch filter about 5 to 7khz (i use a mild notch filter now to damp about 5 to 7khz)
so now it measure quite nice
Best Bjarne
 
#75
Hi @lineSource, in the post below you posted an image of some very interesting-looking speakers, particularly the one on the left with the JMLC horns. Can you point me in the right direction for further details on this speaker. Is it a DIY build? Is it covered in the Lynn Olson thread? I took a look at this but it's 1400 pages long and just wanted to check before I started to wade through it ;-)


Thanks for any assistance,
Crom



LineSource said:
Instead of cloning a 4-way JBL 4345 monitor, do you have any forward thinking big-dream speaker design ideas?

-Using DSP with multiple amps dramatically changes both the design and design process from beginning to end. `
-For home, ports no longer seem necessary. Monster 18" BMS 18N862 woofer with sealed box room equalization down to 20Hz are simple with modest cost DSP/plate amps.
-4-way not mandatory. Latest Tech 12" midbass and 1" compression drivers have excellent frequency and directivity performance from 1,200Hz - 20,000Hz
-90H*40V polar pattern best fits HT and family couch, but large circular JMLC horns(Lynn Olson thread) get top praise for solo critical listening.
-Cabinet shape still important. DSP cannot correct edge diffraction distortion. Sexy still sells!
Click to expand...
 
#76
Ok, so further research indicates that this image is not of the transmission line Olson designs...it's the speaker on the left I'm trying to identify...apologies for OT post.
681503d1526691267t-troels-3-classic-interesting3-jpg
 
#77
Crom, I don't believe any of the speakers pictured actually exist. I have noticed that LineSource frequently edits together photos in order to illustrate his points, using bits and pieces that may seem familiar but are just being used to create examples that don't exist in reality.

edit: having said that, I believe you are correct about the speaker on the left. It looks like Gary Dahl's rendition of a modern Arial.
 
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