I don't understand the criticism of wide rectangular cabinets by Troels. This chain is about his "Classic" series, which indeed has rather wide, classic, cabinets. Most other designs are narrow or tapering upwards.
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DIY-Loudspeakers
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HiFi-/Surround Kits | Visaton
Just check here and roll down the page!
DIY-Loudspeakers
Fortunately we have thousands of other diy designs published! The Visaton archives are not well known in English speaking world.
HiFi-/Surround Kits | Visaton
The baffle is very wide and the mid/tweeter are offset, I don`t see any issue with this either. But his voicing, i wouldn`t call it safe. This approach can make speakers sound laid back and more natural to many until you play some instruments, like an accordeon - unless response is flat, they will sound muffled and weird. Flat response requires a carefull crossover approach which make take several months to adjust but a speaker with declining response is just going to be colored, that is.
The BMS is a really nice driver although I find the rubber suspension too hard for my taste and its MMS is 127gr. I wouldn`t use it above 80hz or so, even better - above 60Hz.
The BMS is a really nice driver although I find the rubber suspension too hard for my taste and its MMS is 127gr. I wouldn`t use it above 80hz or so, even better - above 60Hz.
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Strangely enough I don't have any issues with his classic 3W. Ironically his other high end designs that have pretty low end look.
Critics of Troels' aesthetics should bear in mind that he designs a speaker, builds a pair, listens to it, and then moves on. If he is really pleased with a particular design he will move it into his main system for a while, then he will sell it. So his woodwork is very precise, and perfectly adequate for the job, but while he admires the creativity of others he doesn't have time for veneers and exotic woods, finishing his builds at the Baltic ply and MDF stage. He has a strong ethic of "function dictates form".
On the other hand, you are perfectly entitled to add your own touches to his design, as long as they don't change the acoustics too much. As an example, the first photo below is of his own Jensen 1071, while the other shot is of a builder's rather stunning version of the same design. If you look through his "Builders' Responses" section you will come across some absolutely gorgeous builds.
Alex
On the other hand, you are perfectly entitled to add your own touches to his design, as long as they don't change the acoustics too much. As an example, the first photo below is of his own Jensen 1071, while the other shot is of a builder's rather stunning version of the same design. If you look through his "Builders' Responses" section you will come across some absolutely gorgeous builds.
Alex
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... and I should say I'm not a fan of the looks of the new Fusion, which looks much too boxy and imposing for my tastes. The in many ways similar MUN17 is much more to my liking, although at a price.
Alex
Alex
I agree with you but his original design does put a constraint on the cabinet creativity of the builders.
It's hard to argue with that Sonus Faber inspired look. If I had any decent amount of talent, all my speakers would look like Sonus Faber.
Funny you should say that - I chose the leather finish on the baffle of my build of Troels' SEAS 3-Way Classics for the very same reason. Shame I can't finish the woodwork to SF standards...
Alex
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Funny you should say that - I chose the leather finish on the baffle of my build of Troels' SEAS 3-Way Classics for the very same reason. Shame I can't finish the woodwork to SF standards...
Alex
I actually think your wood finish is pretty good, and like it more than your baffle leather finish.
You'll have to take it from me that the leather looks better in close-up (and much better than anything I could have achieved with Troels' black MDF)...
Alex
I posted this on another thread too but...
Troels Gravesen builds these and shares them with the community (well, not all of his designs). When you do this, you need to factor in the ability of a diy-er to reproduce the design. Yes, straight rectangular cabs and 90 degree edge on the Y-axis (the way he physically offset the tweeter to allign the acoustic centers) are all a bad idea but how many diy-er have a 1/2" router, a table and some of the CMT/Freud 1"+ radius bits which cost more than EUR70 alone? The man does his designs so they can be replicated as easily and affordably as possible - I can assure you there are kits out there built with being as good as possible - how many have been built? Not many if none. He`s one of few that managed to break the ice of diy and allow for an alternative to those wishing for a better sound and not having a hefty bank account waiting for a new set of Kharmas.
Troels Gravesen builds these and shares them with the community (well, not all of his designs). When you do this, you need to factor in the ability of a diy-er to reproduce the design. Yes, straight rectangular cabs and 90 degree edge on the Y-axis (the way he physically offset the tweeter to allign the acoustic centers) are all a bad idea but how many diy-er have a 1/2" router, a table and some of the CMT/Freud 1"+ radius bits which cost more than EUR70 alone? The man does his designs so they can be replicated as easily and affordably as possible - I can assure you there are kits out there built with being as good as possible - how many have been built? Not many if none. He`s one of few that managed to break the ice of diy and allow for an alternative to those wishing for a better sound and not having a hefty bank account waiting for a new set of Kharmas.
I guess you know your pair of speakers best as you have painstakingly built them, as I know mine best.
I can understand your point for cheaper kits, but when building A 2000euro kit one should not be trying to save 70 on tools...
MASantos, did you or anybody else started to build the Fusion? I'm also interested, especially as it's easy to use a separate amp for the bass and then maybe an Aleph J2 for the mid/high. For me this sounds like music...
Funny, Troels talks in one of his earlier post about how heavy cone woofers does not sounds "right", but in the Fusion speaker he uses one of the heaviest 12" pro style woofer.
I have long been curious about what is too heavy and what is not for a given woofer application.
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You could save £120 per pair by using the BMS 12S330 instead of the one used by Troels.
It is identical except that it uses a ferrite motor and weighs more and costs less.
It is identical except that it uses a ferrite motor and weighs more and costs less.
The-Loudspeaker
Troels also designed a JBL 4345 type 4-way speaker which he named "The-Loudspeaker"
18" woofer = BMS 18N862-8
10" midrange = 10NMBA520
1" compression driver = 18 Sound NSD1095N
1" horn = 18 Sound XT1086
super tweeter = Fostex FT96H
=============
Basics:
-Four-way floor-stander from 18" +10" + 1" comp. driver + horn-loaded tweeter.
-Finished speaker weight: 85 kgs/ea.
-Sensitivity: 95 dB/2.8V/1 meter.
-Impedances: MTT section: 4-8 Ohms, minimum 4.3 Ohms @ 600 Hz. Bass section 8 Ohm, minimum 6.5 Ohms @ 25 Hz. If run fully passive from one amplifier, minimum impedance will be 3.0 Ohms @ 120 Hz.
-Points of crossover: 200, 1300 and 9000 Hz.
-Bi-amping is highly recommended if no Hypex module is used (passive version).
-Cabinet dimensions: 65 x 45 x 105 cm (WxDxH), 307 litres gross volume.
-Power requirement: 30+ watts for mid-tweeters section. 200+ watts for bass.
Troels also designed a JBL 4345 type 4-way speaker which he named "The-Loudspeaker"
18" woofer = BMS 18N862-8
10" midrange = 10NMBA520
1" compression driver = 18 Sound NSD1095N
1" horn = 18 Sound XT1086
super tweeter = Fostex FT96H
=============
Basics:
-Four-way floor-stander from 18" +10" + 1" comp. driver + horn-loaded tweeter.
-Finished speaker weight: 85 kgs/ea.
-Sensitivity: 95 dB/2.8V/1 meter.
-Impedances: MTT section: 4-8 Ohms, minimum 4.3 Ohms @ 600 Hz. Bass section 8 Ohm, minimum 6.5 Ohms @ 25 Hz. If run fully passive from one amplifier, minimum impedance will be 3.0 Ohms @ 120 Hz.
-Points of crossover: 200, 1300 and 9000 Hz.
-Bi-amping is highly recommended if no Hypex module is used (passive version).
-Cabinet dimensions: 65 x 45 x 105 cm (WxDxH), 307 litres gross volume.
-Power requirement: 30+ watts for mid-tweeters section. 200+ watts for bass.
Attachments
When someone did more than 100 speaker designs, and after all this year's then he chooses PA drivers, does it bigger than normal, and is that satisfied that he just calls it "The Loudspeaker", then to all reading his homepage should be clear, that this is in his eyes a speaker, which does so much aspects right, that he an just enjoy music!
When I first flew over the article, I liked that he now has a classic design with PA chassis. Reading it concentrated, I realized that the maybe bass 10" is actually a 18"!
Now we have a big living room, perfect for this speakers, but what will the next look like?
Concerning the heavy membrane: (I'm not a speaker expert, but I think) you need a heavy membrane if you want to play lower frequencys AND at the same time just allow for small cabinets.
Unfortunately the same principle in small, nice, WAF-friendly speakers which led to so much woofers in the Hifi industry killing all the dynamics and micro details, if you don't go a different route.
Cheers,
Matthias
When I first flew over the article, I liked that he now has a classic design with PA chassis. Reading it concentrated, I realized that the maybe bass 10" is actually a 18"!
Now we have a big living room, perfect for this speakers, but what will the next look like?
Concerning the heavy membrane: (I'm not a speaker expert, but I think) you need a heavy membrane if you want to play lower frequencys AND at the same time just allow for small cabinets.
Unfortunately the same principle in small, nice, WAF-friendly speakers which led to so much woofers in the Hifi industry killing all the dynamics and micro details, if you don't go a different route.
Cheers,
Matthias