Hi,
Seems like jumping the gun. I can't find
anything wrong with both T.G.'s websites.
rgds, sreten.
Seems like jumping the gun. I can't find
anything wrong with both T.G.'s websites.
rgds, sreten.
I'm not defending anyone, but at least in the US there is simply no protection if you publish schematics and don't have patents.
This is a quote directly from the US Copyright Trademark code.
"In no case does copyright protection for an original work of authorship extend to any idea, procedure, process, system, method of operation, concept, principle, or discovery, regardless of the form in which it is described, explained, illustrated, or embodied in such work."
I posted earlier in support of Troels.
I wanted to clarify somethings i said.
I repeat that it is only fair that he gets some monetary benefit for all his efforts and talent.
This also helps him to continue to share his expertise with the community.
Earlier i didn't understand the need to expose all details of the design, only to hide the crossover.
This was a comment in regards to Tony Gee's website, I didn't realize Troels was going down that path as well.
But he clarified the reason for doing this. It is unfortunate that a few bad players are damaging this for those who try to play by the rules.
Having understood the problem, i think what Troels and Tony are doing appears to be the right thing to do to protect some of their intellectual property or get modest compensation for it.
Also didn't mean it as an affront to Tony, who again maintains a great website inspiring others to join in this exciting hobby.
I wanted to clarify somethings i said.
I repeat that it is only fair that he gets some monetary benefit for all his efforts and talent.
This also helps him to continue to share his expertise with the community.
Earlier i didn't understand the need to expose all details of the design, only to hide the crossover.
This was a comment in regards to Tony Gee's website, I didn't realize Troels was going down that path as well.
But he clarified the reason for doing this. It is unfortunate that a few bad players are damaging this for those who try to play by the rules.
Having understood the problem, i think what Troels and Tony are doing appears to be the right thing to do to protect some of their intellectual property or get modest compensation for it.
Also didn't mean it as an affront to Tony, who again maintains a great website inspiring others to join in this exciting hobby.
True Scott. This is often a big problem in Hollywood. You can copyright a script. You can't copyright an idea.
So you keep them secret or close.
So you keep them secret or close.
Copyright and patents is tricky stuff, and wether we like it or not, most modern businesses and industries are more or less based on stealing ideas from one another. Otherwise business lawyers would largely be out of work.... 🙄
Kudos , though, to those who still are willing to share ideas, like often here on this forum....
Kudos , though, to those who still are willing to share ideas, like often here on this forum....
Click on "Updates" and look at the most recent designs. Click on a design and then click on "Crossover" and you will see that there are no component values in the circuit diagram.
re: 'there are no component values" - so work them out yourself, this DIY after all
Troels site is always a good place to get inspiration,
thanks Troels
Troels site is always a good place to get inspiration,
thanks Troels
That's very interesting, Scott. So I wasn't out of order in quoting the design details for this fab little Eekels' Minis speaker. It was already published. 😎
Troels, can I first say it's a pleasure to have you here in person. A true hero in Audio. 😀
Bit of a rant last night, TBH. I thought you were deliberately deleting the back catalogue. It's too precious to go. It's all fixed now anyway. 😱
I think you either give it away, or hold it close to your chest and go for the money. Speakers, and the fascinating maths of them, are just an engineering hobby to me. They are all compromises, but sometimes you hit a musical sweet spot. I make my living elsewhere.
Being free of financial considerations gives you far more freedom to advance the science, IMO. Your Pro-Bono work has earned you huge respect, Troels. Keep it up! 🙂
BTW, I'm hopeless at woodwork, but here's a Wilmslow Audio UK Cabinet that will work with a couple of your designs, I think.
Vifa PL14WJ-
Ellam-XT
Best Regards from Steve Ponsford in Portsmouth, UK.
I like the fact that he does high efficiency stuff and not just the mini-monitor stuff.
And the couple of times I have emailed him, Troels has been quite friendly and forth coming with advice and recommendations.
I know I have learned a lot reading his site.
And the couple of times I have emailed him, Troels has been quite friendly and forth coming with advice and recommendations.
I know I have learned a lot reading his site.
People do.
But what's not fun is seeing others making money off that work with not an inkling of credit.
There are different ways of defending your stance, and the one chosen is more than fine I think.
sorry, but when you have no trademark and publish all technical details for the world to see, you dont get to complain when someone is smart and utilizes it commercially. this happens every day in all forms of business.
you could have manufactured them as finished brand if you wanted to, but you didnt.
steve jobs: "at apple we`ve always been shameless about stealing great ideas."
you could have manufactured them as finished brand if you wanted to, but you didnt.
steve jobs: "at apple we`ve always been shameless about stealing great ideas."
I am not sure quite what was being copied but the overall designs themselves are protected to a fair extent. On the other hand I doubt a straightforward passive crossover design on its own will be protected because it is not going to be "different from any existing design".
To legally put a Troel Gravesen design into production without permission you would first have to change what makes it unique. My guess, and it is only a guess, is that it would mean changing the cabinet geometry and perhaps anything identifiable in the appearance but keeping the driver combination if it is not an unusual one and keeping the crossovers if they are not unusual ones.
I remember once speaker dave saying something about
it in the sense "better keep it as a hobby". I believe that
is a smarter thing to do in general.
If we all kept it as a hobby no one would sell us drivers, filter parts and the other stuff we needed. So I'm glad that a few of us go out there and try to make a living on DIY.
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