I was shocked when I went to Troels Gravesen's website tonight to check out Eekels Minis: W12
Where has the detail gone? You have to pay for it now. 🙁
Happily John Eekels still publishes the design: eekels' mini's*
And I have saved most of the design myself. 🙄
Where has the detail gone? You have to pay for it now. 🙁
Happily John Eekels still publishes the design: eekels' mini's*
And I have saved most of the design myself. 🙄
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Years ago, he used to post as though he was a regular hobbyist while writing in third-person about the brands he used in his projects. At a point, word got out that he was the owner of the Jantzen brand, which are products made by other manufacturers and labelled as the house brand "Jantzen".
So, this doesn't come as a complete surprise - diy is full of marketing ploys. With that said, I don't see why he's charging. His crossovers are mere passives and there is nothing esoteric about the particular arrangments he uses.
So, this doesn't come as a complete surprise - diy is full of marketing ploys. With that said, I don't see why he's charging. His crossovers are mere passives and there is nothing esoteric about the particular arrangments he uses.
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All I can say is that I've communicated with Troels on a few occasions and he's been quite willing to post corrections to his own material so let us not assume the worst.
I note that at the bottom of his website he posts the following;
"Crossover components found on this website are sponsored by Jantzen Audio, Denmark. Jantzen Audio has the most extensive range of baked coils available, supplemented by a wide range of audio grade capacitors. Complete crossover kits for the shown constructions can be ordered at: contact@jantzen-audio.com. For SEAS and ScanSpeak constructions, this can include drivers as well. I'm particularly grateful to Jantzen Audio for taking the financial risk of launching the JA8008 and JA8008-HMQ drivers. Some of the drivers used in the constructions were sponsored by Jantzen Audio (SEAS drivers), ScanSpeak and AudioTechnology. Thanks to those who made this possible! None of the constructions shown at my website were suggested by any of my sponsors and I'm not financially affiliated with any of my sponsors. For questions regarding the constructions on this site, please contact me at: troels.gravesen@hotmail.com
I note that at the bottom of his website he posts the following;
"Crossover components found on this website are sponsored by Jantzen Audio, Denmark. Jantzen Audio has the most extensive range of baked coils available, supplemented by a wide range of audio grade capacitors. Complete crossover kits for the shown constructions can be ordered at: contact@jantzen-audio.com. For SEAS and ScanSpeak constructions, this can include drivers as well. I'm particularly grateful to Jantzen Audio for taking the financial risk of launching the JA8008 and JA8008-HMQ drivers. Some of the drivers used in the constructions were sponsored by Jantzen Audio (SEAS drivers), ScanSpeak and AudioTechnology. Thanks to those who made this possible! None of the constructions shown at my website were suggested by any of my sponsors and I'm not financially affiliated with any of my sponsors. For questions regarding the constructions on this site, please contact me at: troels.gravesen@hotmail.com
As someone who doesn't mind the judicious use of the odd electrolytic in a passive crossover I started to wonder when I noticed what seemed to be the overuse of expensive components, especially from someone I thought should know better.
Well, a fair point well made, AllenB!
I always doubted Troels Gravesens' use of expensive crossover components. Stunk of commercial considerations. 😕
Nevertheless, I am heartbroken at his current sellout. I loved this guy like a brother. The best crossover guy on the net.
Come back to us, Troels. 😀
I always doubted Troels Gravesens' use of expensive crossover components. Stunk of commercial considerations. 😕
Nevertheless, I am heartbroken at his current sellout. I loved this guy like a brother. The best crossover guy on the net.
Come back to us, Troels. 😀
Yes....that part of it always put me off a bit...boutique to say the least....but given the wide exposure Troels site had i'm sure Troels doesn't pay full retail 😉 .
I do appreciate the fact that he is willing to dissect and analyze some vintage equipment and present evidence that diverges from his own preconceptions. A boon to some of us without the means to invest in contemporary drivers and equipment, who instead look to improve upon, tweak or re-purpose some of the vintage equipment we've accumulated on a shoe-string budget.
I think we are jumping to conclusions.
The guy offers excellent documentation and obviously puts in enormous efforts to get these designs out to the community. I still see most of his design up on his page with all details. With the amount of details provided, one doesnt really need to buy the kit from Jantzen. Frankly i dont mind if he makes a minor profit as compensation for his work.
Just as a comparison i used to love Tony Gees Humble Homemade Hifi. This was till one day i realized that none of the crossovers have any details provided. Now that forces you to get the kist from there if you like the design.
In any case i hope Troels is around with us folks. Really admire his work.
The guy offers excellent documentation and obviously puts in enormous efforts to get these designs out to the community. I still see most of his design up on his page with all details. With the amount of details provided, one doesnt really need to buy the kit from Jantzen. Frankly i dont mind if he makes a minor profit as compensation for his work.
Just as a comparison i used to love Tony Gees Humble Homemade Hifi. This was till one day i realized that none of the crossovers have any details provided. Now that forces you to get the kist from there if you like the design.
In any case i hope Troels is around with us folks. Really admire his work.
It's clear as a day what is going on with Troels Gravesen's work.
Folks are being used to getting a lot for almost nothing. One can
choose between finished projects the way designer thought to be
right or making your own.
Folks are being used to getting a lot for almost nothing. One can
choose between finished projects the way designer thought to be
right or making your own.
Hi folks
Sorry, the Eekels Mini was deteled by accident, calling a new project the same name. The Eekels mini is back.
With regard to my affiliation with Jantzen Audio you can read above what it is, or go to the bottom of my intro page.
And you can thank a number of vulture dealers in New Zealand, Australia, Spain and Eastern Europe for not showing the crossover components' values any more. These guys have no respect for copyright laws and nick designs, images, etc., for their own personal profit. They should make their own designs and launch their own products. I'm not spending e.g. 100 workshop hours on an DISC4 project to feed these guys:
DISC-4
With regard to the use of expensive crossover components, I use these things because they sound better. Not a lot, but better. It's no secret we pay dearly for small increments in sound quality.
best regards
Troels Gravesen
And please identify yourself before you speak out!
Sorry, the Eekels Mini was deteled by accident, calling a new project the same name. The Eekels mini is back.
With regard to my affiliation with Jantzen Audio you can read above what it is, or go to the bottom of my intro page.
And you can thank a number of vulture dealers in New Zealand, Australia, Spain and Eastern Europe for not showing the crossover components' values any more. These guys have no respect for copyright laws and nick designs, images, etc., for their own personal profit. They should make their own designs and launch their own products. I'm not spending e.g. 100 workshop hours on an DISC4 project to feed these guys:
DISC-4
With regard to the use of expensive crossover components, I use these things because they sound better. Not a lot, but better. It's no secret we pay dearly for small increments in sound quality.
best regards
Troels Gravesen
And please identify yourself before you speak out!
Having just followed your link I can see nothing obvious missing and the pictures you posted seem to be present. Can you confirm if the details are still missing?
PS Troels has posted just before me.
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System7: Why not take the opportunity to buy Wilmslow which is for sale and make co-operation with Troels as an agent 007(mH) in UK ;-)
Without Troels and Tony G, I would never have started down the diy pathway. Now, that may not be totally correct, but where would I be had their sites not been available.
Their sites allowed me to take knowledge found in these very pages, read their practical applications of the thoughts discussed, and move forward.
Their builds don't just give technical info, they tell you what they're doing and why. They helped this newby (8 years and counting) progress to a point where I can say "wow, that really did make a difference, my speakers now sound even better".
Who cares if they're making money. Do any of you really believe that someone would put in thousands upon thousands of hours, go through the expense of having a website, just for the fun of it.
Tony G and Troels where doing and saying great things about great drivers (and crossover parts) long before the manufacturers noticed them. Once the manufacturers realized how important both these great men where to diy audio, only then where they rewarded.
If I was a manufacturer, I'd bend over backwards to make them happy, like develop a driver with their specific needs.
Everyone benefits. Isn't that what this website is all about?
Their sites allowed me to take knowledge found in these very pages, read their practical applications of the thoughts discussed, and move forward.
Their builds don't just give technical info, they tell you what they're doing and why. They helped this newby (8 years and counting) progress to a point where I can say "wow, that really did make a difference, my speakers now sound even better".
Who cares if they're making money. Do any of you really believe that someone would put in thousands upon thousands of hours, go through the expense of having a website, just for the fun of it.
Tony G and Troels where doing and saying great things about great drivers (and crossover parts) long before the manufacturers noticed them. Once the manufacturers realized how important both these great men where to diy audio, only then where they rewarded.
If I was a manufacturer, I'd bend over backwards to make them happy, like develop a driver with their specific needs.
Everyone benefits. Isn't that what this website is all about?
Good post Billy !
Without the knowledge that I've gathered from Troels site I wouldn't have built my RefSpeaker.
Thanks Troels !
Without the knowledge that I've gathered from Troels site I wouldn't have built my RefSpeaker.
Thanks Troels !
I have never built one of Troels' designs, but I nearly have. I have contacted him several times, and Troels is always happy to respond to questions. Without his website, I would not have the understanding that I have now. He is a big asset to our community.
I just wanted to say a huge thanks to Troels, and give him my support.
I just wanted to say a huge thanks to Troels, and give him my support.
Thanks, Michael.
I'd love to include the schematics as previously, but unfortunately dealers have no shame.
As always, you can buy the cheapest versions of the kits and leave out all accessories and drivers. Jantzen Audio is very fortcoming with regard to this.
I'm highly dependent on my sponsors, otherwise most of my constructions would never have been made.
best regards
Troels
I'd love to include the schematics as previously, but unfortunately dealers have no shame.
As always, you can buy the cheapest versions of the kits and leave out all accessories and drivers. Jantzen Audio is very fortcoming with regard to this.
I'm highly dependent on my sponsors, otherwise most of my constructions would never have been made.
best regards
Troels
Well, there are vultures in every camp and business, there's just nothing new under the sun. Today, anything worthwhile presented in the open seems to be exploited., copyrighted or not. TG is just far from the only one in this position. Another example is all the eastern copies of Nelson Pass' designs as he has been genereous enough to share them with the DIY community.
I've been following TG's designs over the past years, and even exchanged the odd E-mail, always with forthcoming answers, so thank you very much for that 🙂
I've been following TG's designs over the past years, and even exchanged the odd E-mail, always with forthcoming answers, so thank you very much for that 🙂
Jantzen Audio was very cooperative to help me out with my wishes to update my Jenzen NEXT to NEXT 4. Just ask what you want, I'm pretty sure they will help you.
(Really should start working on the NEXT 4, have al the parts except for one: time 😀 )
It is fair enough to hold back some details so that there is the possibility of making money to maintain the site.
Troels has put a lot of work into his designs and his site provides a wealth of information, insight and plain old good reading. Other sites use other approaches, such as Amazon Associate links (Ken Rockwell's photo and audio site is one example).
Troels has put a lot of work into his designs and his site provides a wealth of information, insight and plain old good reading. Other sites use other approaches, such as Amazon Associate links (Ken Rockwell's photo and audio site is one example).
We buy software, video and music - or at least we should. 😉 Why not buy info?
(I like free, too)
(I like free, too)
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