Thanks Richard. Power supply voltage was the first thing I checked and was measured at 24V.
I guess there's a clue in that both boards powered up fine a couple of days ago and now they're both showing the same error state.
I powered up each board individually too and both powered up with the same error state. I've also tried with both the brisk PS and the closed frame SMPS unit I have - all with the same result.
I guess there's a clue in that both boards powered up fine a couple of days ago and now they're both showing the same error state.
I powered up each board individually too and both powered up with the same error state. I've also tried with both the brisk PS and the closed frame SMPS unit I have - all with the same result.
So I finally got these guys up and running. Sorry Richard, you have probably been thinking I wasn't happy with the amps... I have had them built up and sitting on the bench for almost 5 months, but it took a couple months to get the power supplies, then a few more before I could finally get them in a case. I didn't want to make the same mistake as I usually do. I'll rig something up, find out it sounds great, but its a pain to set up/take down due to the need to maintain WAF.
Anyway, I am very impressed! It has a very musical sound, very easy to listen to and non-fatiguing. The speakers just completely disappear and leave nothing but the music. The soundstage is very open and sits back further (farther?) than my ACA. It's not as in-your-face 3D, but has a great ambience, it feels like effects could be coming from anywhere.
While I am enjoying all types of music, I feel like it really excels with electronic music or anything heavy on effects. I feel like I am noticing all kinds of new things in songs that I know well, particularly sustain that I never noticed before. It kind of reminds me of my last system that I had to abandon. A pair of knock-off Axioms and a Rotel integrated receiver that I had to spray contact cleaner in the input selector every week to keep both channels functional and only a Chromecast Audio as a source. All salvaged and shouldn't have worked, but man did it make everything I threw at it sound good.
Currently, I am using Wayne's BA2018 linestage in between DecaDAC and the amps, but I can only use 5% on pot before it's too much gain. If I want to go DecaDAC direct to amps, is replacing the Wima's with the 0R resistors the best option? It looked like there was a choice between that and the electrolytics.
Anyway, I am very impressed! It has a very musical sound, very easy to listen to and non-fatiguing. The speakers just completely disappear and leave nothing but the music. The soundstage is very open and sits back further (farther?) than my ACA. It's not as in-your-face 3D, but has a great ambience, it feels like effects could be coming from anywhere.
While I am enjoying all types of music, I feel like it really excels with electronic music or anything heavy on effects. I feel like I am noticing all kinds of new things in songs that I know well, particularly sustain that I never noticed before. It kind of reminds me of my last system that I had to abandon. A pair of knock-off Axioms and a Rotel integrated receiver that I had to spray contact cleaner in the input selector every week to keep both channels functional and only a Chromecast Audio as a source. All salvaged and shouldn't have worked, but man did it make everything I threw at it sound good.
Currently, I am using Wayne's BA2018 linestage in between DecaDAC and the amps, but I can only use 5% on pot before it's too much gain. If I want to go DecaDAC direct to amps, is replacing the Wima's with the 0R resistors the best option? It looked like there was a choice between that and the electrolytics.
Hi Ben - if you want to drive the amps direct from Deca DAC then 'lytics are what I use. In the range 220uF to 2200uF, the voltage rating should be 10V or higher. Either put them in place of the Wimas or alternatively fit them off-board and use the 0Rs on the PCB. Polarity is -ve towards the amps.
Glad you like the sound - I also find they make my speakers disappear very well.
Does the Wayne BA2018 stage have gain? I would guess it does if you can only use 5% of your volume. In fact no gain is needed between Deca DAC and amp assuming you don't want to drive them into clipping.
Glad you like the sound - I also find they make my speakers disappear very well.
Does the Wayne BA2018 stage have gain? I would guess it does if you can only use 5% of your volume. In fact no gain is needed between Deca DAC and amp assuming you don't want to drive them into clipping.
Ok, I will try that next, going Deca DAC direct to the amps. I believe you included those 'lytics with the kit. I already drilled all the holes and put standoffs for that setup in the repurposed tape drive chassis.
On a side note, I am using them with 6 ohm Infinity's. Just in case that was a consideration for anyone else.
Yes, the BA2018 has about 12db of gain, so way too much. But it was the quickest way to get something playing. I just haven't had the heart to take it out of the setup to make any changes
On a side note, I am using them with 6 ohm Infinity's. Just in case that was a consideration for anyone else.
Yes, the BA2018 has about 12db of gain, so way too much. But it was the quickest way to get something playing. I just haven't had the heart to take it out of the setup to make any changes
Also, I was wondering how you use the black header type connectors you include with the kit. I wasn't sure how they were intended to be used, so I have just been using the 4 pin beige type. Not that that is a problem as I like the beige ones, but it seemed like it might open up other options to be able to use the others.
We included some spare 'lytics with the Deca DAC kit but not with fitting them at the output in mind But if there are two spare ones, that would be a good use of them.
We included the black headers for people who want to solder wires more directly. The beige ones only work with crimps and they need a crimp tool to apply. So unless you have your own supplies of crimps and the right tool you're kinda stuck with the wires we've applied crimps to. If those wires don't suit then the black headers allow you to use your own wires.
But if there are two spare ones, that would be a good use of them.We included the black headers for people who want to solder wires more directly. The beige ones only work with crimps and they need a crimp tool to apply. So unless you have your own supplies of crimps and the right tool you're kinda stuck with the wires we've applied crimps to. If those wires don't suit then the black headers allow you to use your own wires.
Gotcha, that was my guess but I wasn't sure (on the black headers).
I went through the leftover parts from the kit and found a couple 'lytics labeled "replacement for Wima's" ��. I put them in and connected DecaDAC straight to the amps, but I am getting quite a bit of static. Music is coming through, and I can kind of drown out the noise if I turn up source volume. I tried with power supply 0V connected to amp signal input and without, but same result either way. The only thing I have changed is not using the lineage in between DAC and amps. Interesting thing is that when I cut power to the amps, I get one second of perfectly clean audio before sound goes out. Any ideas on what I should try?
I went through the leftover parts from the kit and found a couple 'lytics labeled "replacement for Wima's" ��. I put them in and connected DecaDAC straight to the amps, but I am getting quite a bit of static. Music is coming through, and I can kind of drown out the noise if I turn up source volume. I tried with power supply 0V connected to amp signal input and without, but same result either way. The only thing I have changed is not using the lineage in between DAC and amps. Interesting thing is that when I cut power to the amps, I get one second of perfectly clean audio before sound goes out. Any ideas on what I should try?
Hi Richard, been having lots of fun with your boards, unfortunately one channel suddenly stopped working after a few hours playtime the other day and is showing red & yellow LED's, I followed the above advice, U3 had 4.4v on its output and 5.6v on its input. U4 21.5v output. C6 was 1.6v. As the input voltage was low, I followed the voltage back from U3 and found R17 had a hissy fit and was flitting between 65-80R. I replaced this with the nearest value at hand - a 12w Mills 2R wire wound lol, quite a bit of size difference! U3 now has solid 21.5v on the output & C6 is 2.15v, alas still red LED of doom. Any ideas where to look next?
Looks as though your TDA8932 has given up the ghost here. Whenever I've had that 'LED of death' while external conditions have been as designed, I've swapped out the IC. Snip the legs individually with some fine cutters, don't try removing it all at once.
I just went to Mouser and found the chip's now EOL so I guess secondary sources are the remaining suppliers.
I just went to Mouser and found the chip's now EOL so I guess secondary sources are the remaining suppliers.
Thanks Rich.
I thought it wise to explain my journey with Richards TDA8932 boards, so others could enjoy the adventure too;
Shipping
Firsts first, ordering and shipping was much faster than expected, kudos. Buying from the UK to EU is more troublesome these days, that's a story for another time!
Quality
The boards are very well made and robust. That has been proven with several swaps on the pads in some positions, without issue, except one small piece of inductor pad, but that was my bad for knocking it off the draws that the stereo gear sits on, and the pad was still easily usable with the amount left.
The presoldered SMD parts is good with no reason to reflow anything.
Sound, stock
The sound out the box is excellent, really well balanced, great bass, sweet twinkling highs, midrange is great, rich but crystalline. Fast but bloomy.
The soundstage is where these little gems shine, super wide, the accuracy and pinpoint suspended elements to the music are fantastic and some of the best I have had in my system. Depth is good too. As others have mentioned, very musical. Really quiet too.
But still I missed a little detail from some of my other amps.
Using a Chinese LPS giving 24v 2A.
Modifications
I first ordered better quality regs for U3. U4 is a better reg in stock form so I thought I would give it a twirl only for U3, at least that was the plan.
2x Sparkos SS1117XX with 21.5v output was ordered, same pinouts, easy to swap out, only to install on the underside because the Sparkos are a little more cumbersome than the 317.
To install the Sparkos you must short the diodes U3 - D2, D3 & remove R15. U4 - D5, D4 & remove R16. Please correct if this can be improved upon Richard.
This took the noise floor to zero, I mean absolute 0. That will be one reason why these boards sound even better with these regs in. The soundstage became utterly 3D, the midrange richer, the highs sweeter, the bass thunderous when required and delicate when needed. Refinement I would say was a good some up, far more natural and palpable.
Then the inductors were the next to go, this is a common upgrade path for class D amps at the output, naturally.
The stock inductors, are quite ok, I swapped out the stock for some 4.9A Wurth, there was no difference in sound, I chose those because I was recommended the large 28A Wurth but could not order them at the time.
But then curiosity and availability crossed paths, the 7443642200 Wurth inductors were bought and brought more magic to the soundstage and bass, especially the sub bass. Well worth €30. Pain in the a*s to install, basically one side fits fine but the other needs to be flipped to follow the same polarity, there might not be a huge difference with this but I decided to employ this setup just to be sure. Glue used to clamp to board.
Changed the output caps to 1uf SMR and quite liked the change, the feeling was better detail.
Added a 470uf AN Kaisei cap and thought I liked what I heard, there was certainly no down side to adding it, for future - unnecessary.
These mods will make your board look like an IED from madmax, messy stuff, but the solution to that is coming.
Current sound system
DAC - Bricasti M21 (with 8 Sparkos op amps inside, yes I loves me some Sparkos!)
Pre amp - Supratek Chardonnay (entirely modified with 2c22 driver tubes in CCS, 2 Lundahl chokes, Lundhal output trannies, Duelund silver/copper output caps and the full innards ripped out and re-wired neatly/logically)
Amp - Line Magnetic 508 (modified with 2c22 driver tubes on CCS, these are my favourite drivers if you can tell, better quality parts inside, Psvane ACME 300B & 805 tubes) fantastic sounding amp, my favourite so far, fending off PASS, Ayon, Sansui AU777 & many custom projects.
Amp - TubeLab TSE (with custom Monolith Magnetics Amporphous core OPT, Tango power, NP acoustic amorphous choke, all premium parts etc) Very pleasant but coloured.
Amp - Dr Morder's latest amp with integrated SMPS (Sparkos op amps made this, it was very meh before those) Great sounding after the op amps.
Speakers - Reconditioned Spender BC1 with Blue Alnicos (I love this version, pure music, these just sound gorgeous)
Basically - serious stuff.
Class D
in 2019 I decided to try Class D, at its top level, tired the top of the line Nuprime Evos, they were noisy and just sounded dull, lifeless and 'unreal', very clear but then again, so is radar.
So the Nuprimes were sold on within a month, the time period the customer service cleverly suggested could be 'breakin'!
I built a small 'mini system' that I would travel with in my luggage, when travelling for work, this included a tiny Temple audio Tripath amp that is quite pleasant, more enjoyable than the Nuprimes imo. Damn.
Recently I tried several small boards and quite liked the TPA3255 for a bit of small easy fun.
Richards TDA8932 boards are on another level compared to the others listed, in fact I am selling off my Line Magnetic and TL TSE, to not only reduce my electrical output, but to fund a 'maxed out' version of Richards boards, they are so very worth it.
'Maxed out' version
This is the next step in going a bit mental with these boards, fully intent to embrace the madness, explained. Anyone else find the smell of solder smoke intoxicating?
Input trannies, undoubtedly affect sound, the plan is to try pro audio Cinemag CM-2560 jobbies, on Richards instruction, still awaiting information from Cinemag, its only been 2 weeks since trying to order lol.
Large amperage inductors (Wurth 7443642200) it is said that Wurth use the best quality material and therefore sound the best, I can't say for sure but they sound great.
Sparkos regs in U3 & U4 position, the U4 is also an adjustable reg so the same reg will work, the LM1085 is a good reg but we are going 'maxed out' so thus the question mark should be removed & U4 should be Sparkos.
Good quality output caps, after years of trying all kinds of capacitors I can say many sound similar, even pricey ones but there are the exception - Duelund, these are incredible in any position I have tried. Recently, Duelund bought a lot of Jensens tooling after they went bust, so the new JDM series is much more economical, but still mental for capacitors, €150 for 4 0.68uf's! Holy moly. Real guinea pig stuff, lets see.
Panasonic FM in all electro positions, I have liked these more than Rubycon ZL's previously.
Good quality SMD parts Vishay, Susumu RS etc.
Power supply
Toroidy audio 150vac 2x 24v transformer ordered with 2 Power boards from a guy in Russia who makes nice LPS units. SanderZ on instagram.
From here
Convinced no-one else would be interested in doing such wizardry, I contacted Richard about redesigning (on my watch) the board to accommodate such mid life crisiseses and surprisingly he was quite receptive but respect to Richard - he wanted it documented in the public domain so others may also try it, that would be really amazing to get others willing to get involved too! Even suggesting his wife will do the redesign, bloody great!
If you managed to get through this bulk, well done and thanks for looking, most importantly thank you Richard, the hard-work and selfless act of bringing this to the DIY community is brilliant and highly admirable.
This amp board is an absolute giant killer, if anyone is on the fence about purchasing a kit, do not hesitate, jump on in and melt into the incredible sounds, If anyone has the kit and is thinking of getting the Sparkos regs, do it, they will melt your face off, they are that good.
I have yet to be impressed more by any DIY project I have tried and this has been by far the easiest and fastest to construct yet (I didn't do the SMD parts), forget tubes, this is the best of all aspects and the first not tube kit I have been happy to settle with.
Cheers Richard!!
I thought it wise to explain my journey with Richards TDA8932 boards, so others could enjoy the adventure too;
Shipping
Firsts first, ordering and shipping was much faster than expected, kudos. Buying from the UK to EU is more troublesome these days, that's a story for another time!
Quality
The boards are very well made and robust. That has been proven with several swaps on the pads in some positions, without issue, except one small piece of inductor pad, but that was my bad for knocking it off the draws that the stereo gear sits on, and the pad was still easily usable with the amount left.
The presoldered SMD parts is good with no reason to reflow anything.
Sound, stock
The sound out the box is excellent, really well balanced, great bass, sweet twinkling highs, midrange is great, rich but crystalline. Fast but bloomy.
The soundstage is where these little gems shine, super wide, the accuracy and pinpoint suspended elements to the music are fantastic and some of the best I have had in my system. Depth is good too. As others have mentioned, very musical. Really quiet too.
But still I missed a little detail from some of my other amps.
Using a Chinese LPS giving 24v 2A.
Modifications
I first ordered better quality regs for U3. U4 is a better reg in stock form so I thought I would give it a twirl only for U3, at least that was the plan.
2x Sparkos SS1117XX with 21.5v output was ordered, same pinouts, easy to swap out, only to install on the underside because the Sparkos are a little more cumbersome than the 317.
To install the Sparkos you must short the diodes U3 - D2, D3 & remove R15. U4 - D5, D4 & remove R16. Please correct if this can be improved upon Richard.
This took the noise floor to zero, I mean absolute 0. That will be one reason why these boards sound even better with these regs in. The soundstage became utterly 3D, the midrange richer, the highs sweeter, the bass thunderous when required and delicate when needed. Refinement I would say was a good some up, far more natural and palpable.
Then the inductors were the next to go, this is a common upgrade path for class D amps at the output, naturally.
The stock inductors, are quite ok, I swapped out the stock for some 4.9A Wurth, there was no difference in sound, I chose those because I was recommended the large 28A Wurth but could not order them at the time.
But then curiosity and availability crossed paths, the 7443642200 Wurth inductors were bought and brought more magic to the soundstage and bass, especially the sub bass. Well worth €30. Pain in the a*s to install, basically one side fits fine but the other needs to be flipped to follow the same polarity, there might not be a huge difference with this but I decided to employ this setup just to be sure. Glue used to clamp to board.
Changed the output caps to 1uf SMR and quite liked the change, the feeling was better detail.
Added a 470uf AN Kaisei cap and thought I liked what I heard, there was certainly no down side to adding it, for future - unnecessary.
These mods will make your board look like an IED from madmax, messy stuff, but the solution to that is coming.
Current sound system
DAC - Bricasti M21 (with 8 Sparkos op amps inside, yes I loves me some Sparkos!)
Pre amp - Supratek Chardonnay (entirely modified with 2c22 driver tubes in CCS, 2 Lundahl chokes, Lundhal output trannies, Duelund silver/copper output caps and the full innards ripped out and re-wired neatly/logically)
Amp - Line Magnetic 508 (modified with 2c22 driver tubes on CCS, these are my favourite drivers if you can tell, better quality parts inside, Psvane ACME 300B & 805 tubes) fantastic sounding amp, my favourite so far, fending off PASS, Ayon, Sansui AU777 & many custom projects.
Amp - TubeLab TSE (with custom Monolith Magnetics Amporphous core OPT, Tango power, NP acoustic amorphous choke, all premium parts etc) Very pleasant but coloured.
Amp - Dr Morder's latest amp with integrated SMPS (Sparkos op amps made this, it was very meh before those) Great sounding after the op amps.
Speakers - Reconditioned Spender BC1 with Blue Alnicos (I love this version, pure music, these just sound gorgeous)
Basically - serious stuff.
Class D
in 2019 I decided to try Class D, at its top level, tired the top of the line Nuprime Evos, they were noisy and just sounded dull, lifeless and 'unreal', very clear but then again, so is radar.
So the Nuprimes were sold on within a month, the time period the customer service cleverly suggested could be 'breakin'!
I built a small 'mini system' that I would travel with in my luggage, when travelling for work, this included a tiny Temple audio Tripath amp that is quite pleasant, more enjoyable than the Nuprimes imo. Damn.
Recently I tried several small boards and quite liked the TPA3255 for a bit of small easy fun.
Richards TDA8932 boards are on another level compared to the others listed, in fact I am selling off my Line Magnetic and TL TSE, to not only reduce my electrical output, but to fund a 'maxed out' version of Richards boards, they are so very worth it.
'Maxed out' version
This is the next step in going a bit mental with these boards, fully intent to embrace the madness, explained. Anyone else find the smell of solder smoke intoxicating?
Input trannies, undoubtedly affect sound, the plan is to try pro audio Cinemag CM-2560 jobbies, on Richards instruction, still awaiting information from Cinemag, its only been 2 weeks since trying to order lol.
Large amperage inductors (Wurth 7443642200) it is said that Wurth use the best quality material and therefore sound the best, I can't say for sure but they sound great.
Sparkos regs in U3 & U4 position, the U4 is also an adjustable reg so the same reg will work, the LM1085 is a good reg but we are going 'maxed out' so thus the question mark should be removed & U4 should be Sparkos.
Good quality output caps, after years of trying all kinds of capacitors I can say many sound similar, even pricey ones but there are the exception - Duelund, these are incredible in any position I have tried. Recently, Duelund bought a lot of Jensens tooling after they went bust, so the new JDM series is much more economical, but still mental for capacitors, €150 for 4 0.68uf's! Holy moly. Real guinea pig stuff, lets see.
Panasonic FM in all electro positions, I have liked these more than Rubycon ZL's previously.
Good quality SMD parts Vishay, Susumu RS etc.
Power supply
Toroidy audio 150vac 2x 24v transformer ordered with 2 Power boards from a guy in Russia who makes nice LPS units. SanderZ on instagram.
From here
Convinced no-one else would be interested in doing such wizardry, I contacted Richard about redesigning (on my watch) the board to accommodate such mid life crisiseses and surprisingly he was quite receptive but respect to Richard - he wanted it documented in the public domain so others may also try it, that would be really amazing to get others willing to get involved too! Even suggesting his wife will do the redesign, bloody great!
If you managed to get through this bulk, well done and thanks for looking, most importantly thank you Richard, the hard-work and selfless act of bringing this to the DIY community is brilliant and highly admirable.
This amp board is an absolute giant killer, if anyone is on the fence about purchasing a kit, do not hesitate, jump on in and melt into the incredible sounds, If anyone has the kit and is thinking of getting the Sparkos regs, do it, they will melt your face off, they are that good.
I have yet to be impressed more by any DIY project I have tried and this has been by far the easiest and fastest to construct yet (I didn't do the SMD parts), forget tubes, this is the best of all aspects and the first not tube kit I have been happy to settle with.
Cheers Richard!!
Attachments
I gave that a try and the static like noise is reduced somewhat, but it is still quite noisy. If it makes a difference, the noise is not the hum I got before connecting input 0V to amp PSU 0V, but it sounds like like radio static. For the sake of troubleshooting, I double checked that both DAC and amp work properly with the line stage in-between. Do you think that I might need some filtering on the amp PSUs?
I'm scratching my head a bit here as I don't have an overall picture of how your system is set up. One thing to check is - if you have the (default) 10R resistors (R21) fitted, try removing them. They're a bit of a fudge for when you don't have a direct connection of 0V amp to 0V source.
Have I understood right - the DAC -> BA2018 -> amps sounds fine but DAC (Wima's bypassed) -> amps direct gives static?
As regards amp PSUs - if they don't give static when the BA2018 is in-circuit I doubt there's anything wrong with them.
Have I understood right - the DAC -> BA2018 -> amps sounds fine but DAC (Wima's bypassed) -> amps direct gives static?
As regards amp PSUs - if they don't give static when the BA2018 is in-circuit I doubt there's anything wrong with them.
Hi all,
I hope this is not coming across as spammy but I managed to get round to installing 0.68uf Duelund JDM copper foils on the one remaining working channel and the sonic improvement was not subtle, it is as large as the Sparkos upgrade, this is really something special sounding, the reality is scary, it is just like being at an intimate live gig with great sound engineering.
The sound is room filling, ethereal & intoxicating. The sound stage cannot truly be heard with only one channel in action but the soundstage, even at this stage is ridiculous, meters in all directions on some recordings, one a single channel. The separation of musical elements is sublime as is the timing and cohesion.
I know there is not much to be gained from an iPhone recording of a system but you can be fairly sure that if it sounds great on an iPhone video the reality is even more impressive, thus if anyone is interested I have uploaded a few videos of audio tests right after installing the Duelund, good use of a lunch break! And so much for "break in, ppfff"
I can not stress enough the upgrade in quality of sound with these modifications.
Enjoy the music : )
I hope this is not coming across as spammy but I managed to get round to installing 0.68uf Duelund JDM copper foils on the one remaining working channel and the sonic improvement was not subtle, it is as large as the Sparkos upgrade, this is really something special sounding, the reality is scary, it is just like being at an intimate live gig with great sound engineering.
The sound is room filling, ethereal & intoxicating. The sound stage cannot truly be heard with only one channel in action but the soundstage, even at this stage is ridiculous, meters in all directions on some recordings, one a single channel. The separation of musical elements is sublime as is the timing and cohesion.
I know there is not much to be gained from an iPhone recording of a system but you can be fairly sure that if it sounds great on an iPhone video the reality is even more impressive, thus if anyone is interested I have uploaded a few videos of audio tests right after installing the Duelund, good use of a lunch break! And so much for "break in, ppfff"
I can not stress enough the upgrade in quality of sound with these modifications.
Enjoy the music : )