Compare YJ Danzz Blue/Black with YBDZ
I made some measurements of the effect of the new Danzz Blue/Black amp on my system and compared with the YBDZ amp. Everything is constant except the amps are swapped. Mic & speakers are untouched. This is a measurement of a speaker in my basement workshop/speaker lab. A real listening space with real speakers of my own design. I tried to form a listening impression first before making the measurement and I noted that the Blue/Black amp appears to have more detail.
Here is a comparison of the two amps - and sure enough, the Blue/Black amp seems to have about +1dB in the higher frequencies giving it that perceived more detail feeling.
Looking at the distortion between the two, I could not see any measurable difference. Within the limits of my speakers which are about 0.5% THD from 200 hz up and about 2%-5% THD down to 40 Hz, there was really no difference seen.
When I looked at the impulse response, they were about the same too - that is to say, very clean transients.
So far, I have to say that it appears that the YBDZ Wiener amp is comparable to the Blue/Black in performance. This also confirms my suspicion that my particular YBDZ has the 26dB gain setting (which is what the Blue/Black uses) as I did not touch any gain knobs in the above comparison measurement.
I made some measurements of the effect of the new Danzz Blue/Black amp on my system and compared with the YBDZ amp. Everything is constant except the amps are swapped. Mic & speakers are untouched. This is a measurement of a speaker in my basement workshop/speaker lab. A real listening space with real speakers of my own design. I tried to form a listening impression first before making the measurement and I noted that the Blue/Black amp appears to have more detail.
Here is a comparison of the two amps - and sure enough, the Blue/Black amp seems to have about +1dB in the higher frequencies giving it that perceived more detail feeling.
Looking at the distortion between the two, I could not see any measurable difference. Within the limits of my speakers which are about 0.5% THD from 200 hz up and about 2%-5% THD down to 40 Hz, there was really no difference seen.
When I looked at the impulse response, they were about the same too - that is to say, very clean transients.
So far, I have to say that it appears that the YBDZ Wiener amp is comparable to the Blue/Black in performance. This also confirms my suspicion that my particular YBDZ has the 26dB gain setting (which is what the Blue/Black uses) as I did not touch any gain knobs in the above comparison measurement.
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Ok I know how to do the 2.0 Mono mode,I need to know how to do it for the 2.1 board,I will take a go at it and say Connect OUTPR OUTNR and SWP together for the positive speaker terminal and OUTNL OUTPL and SWN together for
the negative terminal
Will this work to bridge all 4 chips?
The TPA31xxD2 family can be connected in MONO mode enabling up to 100W output power. This is done by:
• Connect INPL and INNL directly to Ground (without capacitors) this sets the device in Mono mode during
power up.
• Connect OUTPR and OUTNR together for the positive speaker terminal and OUTNL and OUTPL together for
the negative terminal
• Analog input signal is applied to INPR and INNR
the negative terminal
Will this work to bridge all 4 chips?
The TPA31xxD2 family can be connected in MONO mode enabling up to 100W output power. This is done by:
• Connect INPL and INNL directly to Ground (without capacitors) this sets the device in Mono mode during
power up.
• Connect OUTPR and OUTNR together for the positive speaker terminal and OUTNL and OUTPL together for
the negative terminal
• Analog input signal is applied to INPR and INNR
Breeze Audio 2.1 compare with YBDZ
It may not be the most fair test to pit the $60 Breeze Audio 2.1 box against a miniDSP and dual YBDZ 2.0 amps set up in vertically-integrated modes (my main reference system with Nautaloss II tops and a sub woofer of my own design), but I did it to see if this whole higher distortion issue due to improper slave sync is still happening. When tested at lower SPL's with not the best sub-woofer that I used before I found no difference. I am now using a better subwoofer with very low inherent distortion to do the test at rather elevated SPL's at the listening position. The setup has the sub in the corner of the room, the mic at the listening position near the center of the room (about 3.5 meters away). I set the SPL level to hit about 90 dB which is about as loud as I can comfortably listen.
Here is the comparison between the miniDSP & dual YBDZ's vs the Breeeze Audio 2.1 (there is a little HF EQ in the miniDSP version so it is flatter and goes higher):
The results look very comparable and it would appear that the Breeze is doing not a bad job for a tiny integrated $60 box vs the complicated DIY miniDSP and dual YBDZ's.
Here is the HD for the minDSP & dual YBDZ's they show about a fairly even level of HD with a slight rise going from -40dB at 200Hz to -30dB at 50Hz:
Now if we look at the HD for the Breeze 2.1, the HD is noticeably higher starting at 200Hz and lower staying around -30dB to -25dB. Is this what is caused by the improper master/slave sync? I have already replaced the 1nF to 47pF cap, maybe need to change the resistor too? Anyhow, there is something in the sub channel of the Breeze that gives higher HD at higher SPL's - could it be the inductors, or it may be the opamp and analog XO and tone control on the sub? I know the Breeze ones get warm while the YBDZ Wiener inductors never get even warm at all:
Anyhow, just thought you guys would be interested - I wish more folks would post some measurements. Direct resistor dummy loads are good too but do not account for the inductive reactance of a real speaker. Useful nonetheless.
In conclusion though, these are measurements and when you actually listen to music, the Breeze 2.1 sounds very nice still at lower SPL's. At 80 dB SPL and given how simple it is to connect two tops and sub and away you go - it is a great deal still and sounds great. I don't want to dissuade someone from buying it on the HD values alone.
It may not be the most fair test to pit the $60 Breeze Audio 2.1 box against a miniDSP and dual YBDZ 2.0 amps set up in vertically-integrated modes (my main reference system with Nautaloss II tops and a sub woofer of my own design), but I did it to see if this whole higher distortion issue due to improper slave sync is still happening. When tested at lower SPL's with not the best sub-woofer that I used before I found no difference. I am now using a better subwoofer with very low inherent distortion to do the test at rather elevated SPL's at the listening position. The setup has the sub in the corner of the room, the mic at the listening position near the center of the room (about 3.5 meters away). I set the SPL level to hit about 90 dB which is about as loud as I can comfortably listen.
Here is the comparison between the miniDSP & dual YBDZ's vs the Breeeze Audio 2.1 (there is a little HF EQ in the miniDSP version so it is flatter and goes higher):
The results look very comparable and it would appear that the Breeze is doing not a bad job for a tiny integrated $60 box vs the complicated DIY miniDSP and dual YBDZ's.
Here is the HD for the minDSP & dual YBDZ's they show about a fairly even level of HD with a slight rise going from -40dB at 200Hz to -30dB at 50Hz:
Now if we look at the HD for the Breeze 2.1, the HD is noticeably higher starting at 200Hz and lower staying around -30dB to -25dB. Is this what is caused by the improper master/slave sync? I have already replaced the 1nF to 47pF cap, maybe need to change the resistor too? Anyhow, there is something in the sub channel of the Breeze that gives higher HD at higher SPL's - could it be the inductors, or it may be the opamp and analog XO and tone control on the sub? I know the Breeze ones get warm while the YBDZ Wiener inductors never get even warm at all:
Anyhow, just thought you guys would be interested - I wish more folks would post some measurements. Direct resistor dummy loads are good too but do not account for the inductive reactance of a real speaker. Useful nonetheless.
In conclusion though, these are measurements and when you actually listen to music, the Breeze 2.1 sounds very nice still at lower SPL's. At 80 dB SPL and given how simple it is to connect two tops and sub and away you go - it is a great deal still and sounds great. I don't want to dissuade someone from buying it on the HD values alone.
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I did not test Danzz board against the Breeze 2.1, but as you can see from the above post, I compared it to YBDZ. Since YBDZ and Danzz Blue/Black appear identical in performance I would guess that the Danzz Blue/Black is better than the Breeze 2.1. It may be the master/slave sync, it may be the inductors or other components used - it does have an opamp and analog XO/tone control for the sub so that may be messing things up more than the miniDSP's cleaner all-digital approach.
Dug was the FIRST person on this forum (to my knowledge) to make a board for the TPA3116D2 and he graciously gave me one (still the best TPA3116D2 amp that I have! Thanks Dug!). Mine looks like this:
Yes - a 65 watt 19 volt HP laptop brick.
No, the gain lined up perfectly - I did not tweak anything in the miniDSP. Just swapped out wires.
This sounds about right - although I have never done it myself so you might want to wait for the experts to chime in (Saturnus, Dug, Rhing, Irrebeo, Danzz, Virpz, et al?)
You may also need to get the chips to sync master/slave properly if not done so already. Apparently there was an error on the TI datasheet that spec'd a 100k and 1nF cap for the sync connection when it should be 47k and 47pF. I am dealing with that now on my Breeze 2.1 amp.
Thanks for the reply,No I was not aware of An error,when you Have resolved your board could you let me know what you did.
Cleonjr,
So far I have changed the 1nF cap connected to pin 16 of the slave (sub woofer IC) to a 47pF cap. I have not yet changed the 100k ohm resistor between pin 16 of the master and pin 16 of the slave to the recommended 47 kohm. I may just add a second 100 kohm resistor in parallel to the existing one to bring it to 50 kohm (close enough) and that way I don't have to remove the existing SMD resistor which is harder than installing one if you don't have a special SMT-specific dual point tweezer soldering iron. I am not sure I want to mess with it anymore but those are the two suggested changes per the TI Eval Board datasheet which has it correct.
Awesome work xrk971! I loved the nautaloss, the spectogram is awesome!
Thank you for the reply.
I've just ordered the breeze 2.1 and a smps 24v 10a, a minidsp would be a little off the budget right now.
Did you observe any drop in voltage? A 65w PS for both boards isn't too stretchy?
cheers
Thank you for the reply.
I've just ordered the breeze 2.1 and a smps 24v 10a, a minidsp would be a little off the budget right now.
Did you observe any drop in voltage? A 65w PS for both boards isn't too stretchy?
cheers
Thanks, and you are welcome! The 24v and 10a supply should be great for you. I have 91 dB efficient main speakers and a 98 dB efficient sub so not much power was needed to get 90 dB at 3.5 m. I would estimate I was running maybe 7 volts so total of 36 watts for all speakers - so that should not have posed a problem with voltage sag for a 65 watt supply.
Breeze distortion seems lower everywhere except 100hz to 200hz. Is the distortion added at higher frequencies the minidsp? Or does it seem lower because level is 6dB lower? Here there might be a gain difference?
Blues frequencies rising little stronger then wiener that rises little more then the breeze going up in frequency. And maybe the Breeze already has a rising frequency respons compared to filterless 3110? or filterless class AB?
Difference blue/wiener might increase using new elco/oscon, I heard a lifeless brandnew blueboard last week, I understand the elco's were near death.
Blues frequencies rising little stronger then wiener that rises little more then the breeze going up in frequency. And maybe the Breeze already has a rising frequency respons compared to filterless 3110? or filterless class AB?
Difference blue/wiener might increase using new elco/oscon, I heard a lifeless brandnew blueboard last week, I understand the elco's were near death.
Hello all!
I would like recommendations on which current TPA3116D2 board I should buy. One that is populated by decent components but also relatively easy to modify. Is there one out there that all agree is a great value?
EDIT: I prefer no volume control, tone etc. Just simple input, output and power connectors will do just fine.
It seems YJ Blue/Black 2.0 is popular...?
I would like recommendations on which current TPA3116D2 board I should buy. One that is populated by decent components but also relatively easy to modify. Is there one out there that all agree is a great value?
EDIT: I prefer no volume control, tone etc. Just simple input, output and power connectors will do just fine.
It seems YJ Blue/Black 2.0 is popular...?
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'Black' PCB is certainly one of the most popular and the great value, that sounds great even unmodified.
But to look for something that 'all agree' as the best value is mission impossible here 😀
Another one that beats the 'black' one in some aspects and definitely in value for money is this one - Free Shipping! 1pc TPA3116 Class D digital amplifier 50W +50 W with Silent Sleep Design-in Other Electronic Components from Electronic Components & Supplies on Aliexpress.com
Thanks for your reply. I see that Juan-Jing has a sale right now; $19.99. Will probably buy it. 🙂
Cogitech,
I have both of those boards and they are comparable in performance. In fact near identical as I just measured them with my speakers in previous post. The $13 one from Aliexpress aka Ybdz 2.0 is mostly surface mount and takes about 3 weeks to ship but shipping is free. The YJ blue black board was designed to be easily modded with thru hole components where it counts. That board is $20 but shipping is about $7 from HK and takes 1 week.
If you plan on modding then the YJ is the way to go. If you plan to use stock the Ybdz is the better value.
Connect OUTPR OUTNR and SWP together for the positive speaker terminal
and OUTNL OUTPL and SWN together for the negative terminal
OK this worked like a charm,it has been driving these 2 ohm subs all day no problem,no heat or nothing,Wish I could see what output was ,if it was close to 200 watts or not it seems so,how can I test the output wattage is there a cheap meter I can get?
and OUTNL OUTPL and SWN together for the negative terminal
OK this worked like a charm,it has been driving these 2 ohm subs all day no problem,no heat or nothing,Wish I could see what output was ,if it was close to 200 watts or not it seems so,how can I test the output wattage is there a cheap meter I can get?
ok just noticed Breeze 2.1 slave amp has 10k and 10k gainresistors, so that probably is 20dB gain, main probably also 20dB??
100k resistor for sync isn't TI, but they didn't like 51k and 51k either for slave 20dB gainsetting 🙂
So lower distortion could be gain too
100k resistor for sync isn't TI, but they didn't like 51k and 51k either for slave 20dB gainsetting 🙂
So lower distortion could be gain too