Hello all,
I would love to see more discussion about single box stereo solutions.
Here's my case, but I am interested in the subject in general:
I've been thinking for a while about how to approach a speaker for casual music listening in our difficult living room.
Clearly this would be very different from a "critical listening in the sweet spot in a treated room" kind of thing.
A few considerations:
I've played around with Mid-Side techniques. I most recently put together a simple line-level contraption encoding L/R into M/S using 1:1 audio transformers, and while it works very well in my small workshop, once I bring it up to the living room the whole thing falls apart (not physically, mind you, but sonically). Because of the neccesary placement of the speaker, the required walls for successful sound bouncing are too asymmetrical: on the left side the nearest surface (a staircase) is 15 feet away, while on the right side there's a large window surface only 2-3 feet away.
So now I'm wondering about making an omnidirectional speaker, using multiple (probably 8) full range speakers wrapped horizontally around a flat cylinder (a bit like a flying saucer). But instead of making it an mono-omni speaker, split it 4+4 into left and right halves. Sure, asymmetric reflections would still make things uneven left-to-right, but at least you'll spread the reflections more widely across the room rather than relying on two particular reflective walls, and you'll also get a small degree of stereo separation from the mostly front-facing pair of speakers (as well as some much needed unreflected sound for clarity).
Any other single box stereo tricks? Ceiling-firing speakers? Center cancelling phase trickery?
I would love to see more discussion about single box stereo solutions.
Here's my case, but I am interested in the subject in general:
I've been thinking for a while about how to approach a speaker for casual music listening in our difficult living room.
Clearly this would be very different from a "critical listening in the sweet spot in a treated room" kind of thing.
A few considerations:
- I want to make it a one box solution. This room doesn't give you an option to put a second speaker in a sensible location without some crazy cable stretches. And with two rambunctious kittens in the house, I'd like to minimize cable runs, ideally to the point where it's only one cable going to the box - the power cable (I generally use Apple Airplay for music, so an Apple Airport Express would sit inside the speaker, along with a power amp).
- The room is a long, somewhat reverberant living room, TV room, kitchen, dining area, staircase all-in-one monstrosity. The listening would primarily happen in the living room section.
- The speaker has to sit off towards one side wall, otherwise it would end up in the middle of the floor. Wall mounting is not an option in this case. A floor-sitting column or stand mount is the way to go here.
- I'd like to have some semblance of stereo imaging. Or at least a vague feeling of stereo depth.
- I generally enjoy full-range speakers, but multi way, or sub-supported designs are fine too.
I've played around with Mid-Side techniques. I most recently put together a simple line-level contraption encoding L/R into M/S using 1:1 audio transformers, and while it works very well in my small workshop, once I bring it up to the living room the whole thing falls apart (not physically, mind you, but sonically). Because of the neccesary placement of the speaker, the required walls for successful sound bouncing are too asymmetrical: on the left side the nearest surface (a staircase) is 15 feet away, while on the right side there's a large window surface only 2-3 feet away.
So now I'm wondering about making an omnidirectional speaker, using multiple (probably 8) full range speakers wrapped horizontally around a flat cylinder (a bit like a flying saucer). But instead of making it an mono-omni speaker, split it 4+4 into left and right halves. Sure, asymmetric reflections would still make things uneven left-to-right, but at least you'll spread the reflections more widely across the room rather than relying on two particular reflective walls, and you'll also get a small degree of stereo separation from the mostly front-facing pair of speakers (as well as some much needed unreflected sound for clarity).
Any other single box stereo tricks? Ceiling-firing speakers? Center cancelling phase trickery?
Thanks, but of course I've read everything I could find here on the subject. The Nagaoka Tetsuo thread deals fairly specifically about one method of Mid/Side stereo, which I've found isn't applicable for most single box stereo needs.
I personally think there is room for more discussion than one thread that's gone largely untouched for the last 5 years.
I personally think there is room for more discussion than one thread that's gone largely untouched for the last 5 years.
Make a flat enclosure 4 feet wide, 4 inches deep and 3 feet high (OD). Put a fullrange by each top corner and lean it against the wall. A car stereo in your house. Watch out your cats will tear up the surrounds with their claws when they find them. Very enticing.
What's wrong with normal stereo? You know, two ears, two speakers...
It was not touched for 5 years for a reason.
Placement in the corner, l&r speakers close, turntable right in the same vibrating box...glad those years are over.
🙂
🙂
I am curious what thread starter will come up next, new, what was not tried, and will surpass anything so far...
Ahh, thank you lord for sparing me of your "box" experience.
We all grew up with something like that. Our console had speakers facing sides as well. Placed in the middle of living room was quite ok.
Ahh, thank you lord for sparing me of your "box" experience.
We all grew up with something like that. Our console had speakers facing sides as well. Placed in the middle of living room was quite ok.
Sorry, I didn't mean to start up an argument of two box vs one box stereo sound. Clearly two boxes are preferable, when conditions allow it!
But sometimes we're thrown a little bit of a curveball of what you can do in a given space. I would blame the WAF, but frankly it's a lot MAF (myself approval factor) as well. And some CAF (cat approval factor).
Surely single box stereo isn't THAT odd. On a similar page some people are into mono speakers.
(And I'm sure you DO know that with the exception of headphones, both speakers reach both ears. Not one speaker per ear.)
Both speakers do reach both ears but...but one side reaches the other with significantly different phase and loudness. You should know that. Or read my page about subwoofers and satelites.
I wish i could help, but this thread is going nowhere. I am out. Wake me up if you come up with some revolutionary scratch post.
I wish i could help, but this thread is going nowhere. I am out. Wake me up if you come up with some revolutionary scratch post.
I do use open back headphones where one channel reaches the other, albeit in different phase and loudness 🙂
Those side-facing-speaker consoles were a Magnavox trademark, and I've heard and serviced the best of them.
Including the expensive TOTL "Concert Grand" model.
But my smallish (40 inch) restored/modified RCA Victor would out-do the best of them.
Hidden tweeters firing off the rear wall behind it gives it an expansive soundstage.
And even at room-shaking volume - absolutely no annoying feedback from the turntable, thanks to Rob Elliot's wonderful sub-sonic Sallen-Key filter.
Even house guests of the "audiophile crowd" gave it surprisingly high marks.
But no worries adason, you'll never be subjected to its performance. 😎
Can you hang from the ceiling? Concept; https://www.pyleaudio.com/sku/pbs5tw One could put a better sounding driver into such. Maybe even battery powered, BT 5.0 TWS! Might be a PITA to charge 'em, but the cats wouldnt be an issue.
I would make two tiny satelite speakers hanging from the ceiling, no need for batteries, just normal wires, since they need to hang on sometning, no cats would get there.
Plus big *** sub full of catnip with thick carpet around on the floor, for cats to have fun, but with woofer hidden behind the metal grille or facing down.
http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-CDZ-1.html
Plus big *** sub full of catnip with thick carpet around on the floor, for cats to have fun, but with woofer hidden behind the metal grille or facing down.
http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-CDZ-1.html
I have a recording engineering degree, so yes, I do know that.
No worries, it's clearly not a thread intended for hardcore hi-fi die-hards, it's just meant for a good bit of fun.
I thought about it! I would make them into decent looking pendant lights. But then I'd have to wire up the house for power AND speakers.
I could do the battery powered BT speaker versions, but even then, if I hung them in a decent enough position for stereo sound, I'd hit my head on them all the time. And it would look very awkward!
Even though I described my particular situation in (too much) depth, I mostly intended it as an example of a tricky scenario.
Instead of setup specific to this location, it would be fun to have a box you could just plop down in any room, plug it in, and have a decent listening experience. No room treatment, no strategic speaker placement.
A bit like a much larger Apple HomePod. Although those aren't stereo, right?