thor v Odin
Chriska
Exactly what did you do to improve your crossovers. I just finished building my Thors and they are pretty good but they are somewhat forward with some harshness in the upper midrange. This is with the Madisound "premium" crossover. Some people on the Madisound board have reported similar results.
The bass goes deep, but it could be a little louder. I figure I can fix that, however, with more optimal cabinets. Its the upper midrange that has me concerned.
Chriska
Exactly what did you do to improve your crossovers. I just finished building my Thors and they are pretty good but they are somewhat forward with some harshness in the upper midrange. This is with the Madisound "premium" crossover. Some people on the Madisound board have reported similar results.
The bass goes deep, but it could be a little louder. I figure I can fix that, however, with more optimal cabinets. Its the upper midrange that has me concerned.
Chriska, Let me preface this by saying that I am no audio expert, A friend of mine is and he helped ma ALOT! I gave him the list of components and asked him to choose what he liked. I then purchased some items from several places as not one place had everything I wanted. I used all hand wound copper foil coils 14awg I believe, and I layed out my crossover around them... I know the speaker is one magnetic field, and the coils make other magnetic fields so here is how I placed the coils: starting with the woofer since it is essentially a fixed postion I placed the largest foil coil the farthest distance away I could from the woofer and it was placed at a right angle. Next the next smaller coil I placed at a right angle and as far away as I could from the spkr and the first coil, likewise with the last coil. i hope that makes sense (I cannot tell you if there is a scientific basis to do that I just thought it would help. Next I used AEON capacitors and bypassed the tweeter with a high quality capacitor, I cannot remember what brand it was. The resistors I bought from madisound and again I cant remember what brand. I am sorry I dont know the brands, I will look more for my receipts and see what I can find. My speakers are flush mounted and the woofer and tweeter are as close together as is physically possible. I used 1.5 inch MDF all around and all sides except the front lock together tongue and groove, sealed and screwed with about 50 screws per enclosure. the inside is braced with a 3/4 inch MDF glued and screwed piece. The cabinets are DEAD! Finished each cabinet is almost 40 pounds and I made speaker stands from 4 inch diameter 1/4 inch thick steel with 3/8 steel top and bottom. I put a hole in it and filled it with sand, it too is quite dead and each stand weighs about 70 pounds. I used nice binding post. I hook the speakers up using monster cable, yes I am almost afraid to admit that, I tried others but I liked how it sounded with it. The speakers are very revealing without being fatiguing. My wife even likes them. I thought the bass response was awesome which I am sure is due to the weight of the cabinets and stands.
I have read it is a waste to use foil coils for the high end but perhaps that is what makes these sound to good to me. I know the foil coils arent cheap but it may be worth a try. Also bypassing the capacitors you have with high quality caps will change the sound. I will try to find the list of parts I used, but I think it will not matter as your ears and mine percieve sound differently. I would buy a few high quality bypass caps and tweak the sound until you get what you want. I think the monster cable dulls the high some and helps the bass on my speakers. Just my opinions, if you really want to know exact brands I used let me know and I will try to dig for it! THere are probably others hear who have experimented with many different capacitors and can guide you better than me.
Hope I helped, Mike
I have read it is a waste to use foil coils for the high end but perhaps that is what makes these sound to good to me. I know the foil coils arent cheap but it may be worth a try. Also bypassing the capacitors you have with high quality caps will change the sound. I will try to find the list of parts I used, but I think it will not matter as your ears and mine percieve sound differently. I would buy a few high quality bypass caps and tweak the sound until you get what you want. I think the monster cable dulls the high some and helps the bass on my speakers. Just my opinions, if you really want to know exact brands I used let me know and I will try to dig for it! THere are probably others hear who have experimented with many different capacitors and can guide you better than me.
Hope I helped, Mike
Ok scratch what I said prior about AEON. I found some notes and here are components I had written down:
for tweeter I used Hovland cap no bypass, woofer was chateauroux. Resistors eagle.
Inductors are SOLO custom wound for this speaker as exact values were not available.
I will have to open up the speaker to confirm these items let me know if you want me to do that .
Mike
for tweeter I used Hovland cap no bypass, woofer was chateauroux. Resistors eagle.
Inductors are SOLO custom wound for this speaker as exact values were not available.
I will have to open up the speaker to confirm these items let me know if you want me to do that .
Mike
Hi!Mike is it possible for you to post a picture of your'e speaker ( THOR), If I understand you correctly you did not use the driver alignment that is posted at the Seas site. Thank you.
Re: thor v Odin
JC
My improvement with the crossovers, were that I changed the capacitors, whitch are connected in serial (10 and 18 micro (fahrrad?)) too high quality. These made the treble, a little more laidback. I've heard my pair of Thor against another pair of Thor, with poorer crossovers, I can tell you there is a big difference. I've heard about some other changes you might consider, but I'll have to come back to on that one.
The magnetic field isn't so critical with the thor. I've got my crossovers underneath th foot. This is also very practical when modification is to be done.
Always interesting to hear about others experience with crossovers and other tweaks.
I've been using Nordost 2flat internal wiring, but this cable is about to be exchanged for Kimber 8TC. I'm hoping this will become a improvement. My binding posts are WBT.
JC said:
JC
My improvement with the crossovers, were that I changed the capacitors, whitch are connected in serial (10 and 18 micro (fahrrad?)) too high quality. These made the treble, a little more laidback. I've heard my pair of Thor against another pair of Thor, with poorer crossovers, I can tell you there is a big difference. I've heard about some other changes you might consider, but I'll have to come back to on that one.
MikeZ said:
The magnetic field isn't so critical with the thor. I've got my crossovers underneath th foot. This is also very practical when modification is to be done.
Always interesting to hear about others experience with crossovers and other tweaks.
I've been using Nordost 2flat internal wiring, but this cable is about to be exchanged for Kimber 8TC. I'm hoping this will become a improvement. My binding posts are WBT.
MikeZ said:
I built both and was not happy with either. Thor has way too little base, and both are too much into your face, I guess you can call it analytical, but I call it edgy. These drivers are very good separately but the Millenium is not my cup of tea I guess.
Funny thing is that I ended up with speakers using SEAS for LF and mids, but my heart went to Raven for highs.
I would think they are more suited for tube amp/preamps
when you heard them was it SS or tubes driving them?
when you heard them was it SS or tubes driving them?
MikeZ
Would you post the XO of the 1/2 Odin, and some data about the cabinet?
If not here, please send me a mail! I'm very much interested because I have 4 ODIN loudspeakers now, and I want to modify 2 to THORs, 1 ODIN to remain as a central speaker and I'll need 2 more 1/2 ODINs or THORs as surround speaker for a home theatre set.
My address is: tutekov@hotmail.com
I would appriciate your comments on the sound of the 1/2 ODINs. I use Madisound XOs in my own ODINs.
Thanks
Would you post the XO of the 1/2 Odin, and some data about the cabinet?
If not here, please send me a mail! I'm very much interested because I have 4 ODIN loudspeakers now, and I want to modify 2 to THORs, 1 ODIN to remain as a central speaker and I'll need 2 more 1/2 ODINs or THORs as surround speaker for a home theatre set.
My address is: tutekov@hotmail.com
I would appriciate your comments on the sound of the 1/2 ODINs. I use Madisound XOs in my own ODINs.
Thanks
My amplification is tube-only, but to be honest I don't believe in speakers that are for tubes only. There are poorly designed speakers that are so inefficient that can only be driven by SS in Class A, but those are typically so bad that are not worth mentioning here.robertwb70 said:
Asen, I will go thru my stuff and find the documentation I have on the 1/2 odin. I am very pleased with the speakers. I can listen for hours to them as they are not fatigueing. The bass response is very impressive. I have a sub that I dont even use anymore except if watching a movie. The speakers are very smooth and are laid back sounding. I have not heard anything I have liked better since I have had these. When I get my information together I will post it.
Mike
Mike
Re: Re: thor vs odin
The Thor goes down to 40 Hz, and nothing further. With spikes, it won't go any deeper, but you'll have a more tight and exact bass.
Conserning the Millenium: As mentioned before, bad records - equals bad sound, and vica versa. Also, that edgy sound you are talking about, can be fixed with a better crossover.
Wanderer said:
The Thor goes down to 40 Hz, and nothing further. With spikes, it won't go any deeper, but you'll have a more tight and exact bass.
Conserning the Millenium: As mentioned before, bad records - equals bad sound, and vica versa. Also, that edgy sound you are talking about, can be fixed with a better crossover.
Re: Re: Re: thor vs odin
ChriSka,
My measurements showed Thor only going down to 45Hz at a -3dB level. Of course this could be the room, it is not too big, about 7 by 4 meters with 2.7 meter ceilings. Crossovers that I was using in Thors were not bad, Hovlands etc. I can imagine anything can be improved but my goals were better base (I was trying to achieve at least 30 Hz) and smoother highs.
Mids were great with Thor though.
ChriSka said:
ChriSka,
My measurements showed Thor only going down to 45Hz at a -3dB level. Of course this could be the room, it is not too big, about 7 by 4 meters with 2.7 meter ceilings. Crossovers that I was using in Thors were not bad, Hovlands etc. I can imagine anything can be improved but my goals were better base (I was trying to achieve at least 30 Hz) and smoother highs.
Mids were great with Thor though.
Wanderer, I was thinking the amount of stuffing is related to the frequency response of the low end, if so can you tweak the stuffing to improve the low end? Mike
Thanks Mike!
I'll be waiting. I'm content with the ODINs. They need a VERY good amp though. My best results so far have been obtained using a 10W JLH SE amp. I'm planing of building an Aleph 30 (I have the parts but not the time to put them together) and a JLH (last Geoff's version).
Assuming the bass response I already have I don't think I'll need any sub in addition for a home theatre. Especially having in mind that if I transform the ODINs to THORs the bass should go lower and deeper.
Regards
I'll be waiting. I'm content with the ODINs. They need a VERY good amp though. My best results so far have been obtained using a 10W JLH SE amp. I'm planing of building an Aleph 30 (I have the parts but not the time to put them together) and a JLH (last Geoff's version).
Assuming the bass response I already have I don't think I'll need any sub in addition for a home theatre. Especially having in mind that if I transform the ODINs to THORs the bass should go lower and deeper.
Regards
Asen, What a coincidence you are building an aleph 30 for yours, I just completed two aleph 2 monoblocks for mine. They really added to the bass. I had heard some comment the alephs may be somewhat weak in bass but I did not find that to be the case. The combination of the aleph and seas seems to be a good one, I think you will be very happy. Mike
Mike
What a good news! Unfortunately the ODINs are a much more difficult load then the 1/2 ODINs. The impedance falls down to 3 Ohms in the low end. But I hope the Aleph could handle this.
Regards
What a good news! Unfortunately the ODINs are a much more difficult load then the 1/2 ODINs. The impedance falls down to 3 Ohms in the low end. But I hope the Aleph could handle this.
Regards
Asen, I am sure the alephs are up to it. If you look thru the owners manual Nelson stated something to the effect of shorting the output and having maybe just a few components fail. I think the aleph you build will make you very happy.
Mike
Mike
Asen, here is the detail on my speaker, I hope it is legible.
Volume internal 14 litres
material 3/4 MDF
w=8.5"
h=13"
d=11"
vent to rear 2" pvc 8" long
acoustic foam sheet 1" thick on all interior walls except front.
I have the correct internal volume but I made walls 1.5 inch MDF and also changed the dimensions some.
Mike
Volume internal 14 litres
material 3/4 MDF
w=8.5"
h=13"
d=11"
vent to rear 2" pvc 8" long
acoustic foam sheet 1" thick on all interior walls except front.
I have the correct internal volume but I made walls 1.5 inch MDF and also changed the dimensions some.
Mike
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