Re: Re: My version
I have these speakers:
http://www.bd-design.nl/forum/reply.php?id=1032,1032
And on combining gainclones with speakers: I have yet to encounter a speakersystem which not sounded good with it.
Check this out:
http://www.sakurasystems.com/show.html
..high efficiency speakers, Jordan 92JXS speakers, Matrix 801, JM Reynaud Odyssée, ..
But I can really recommend any speaker from BD-Design (it's here in The Netherlands, as you are from too?).
zeno said:
I have these speakers:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
http://www.bd-design.nl/forum/reply.php?id=1032,1032
And on combining gainclones with speakers: I have yet to encounter a speakersystem which not sounded good with it.
Check this out:
http://www.sakurasystems.com/show.html
..high efficiency speakers, Jordan 92JXS speakers, Matrix 801, JM Reynaud Odyssée, ..
But I can really recommend any speaker from BD-Design (it's here in The Netherlands, as you are from too?).
jam said:
Quite the opposite actually, I have said that the gainclone probably sounds very good, when paired to the proper speakers. I motivated the technical reason of why I think the idea of IC may be a very good one indeed. I know I could use four irf044 matched and mounted on the same chip, and a couple of irf9610, too. As far as building it, my MTM speakers have a 3.5-3.7 ohm imp. which dips to 3 ohms for quite a broad range so the gainclone may not be appropriate, I don't know.
Anyways I was getting annoyed by people implying I that building the Aleph was a waste of time since the next best thing had just been discovered.
When built by Peter Daniel, is hard not to want a gainclone on your stereo rack, heck it would probably even make the average wife happy.
Re: Current Mode?
To quote Kuei Yang Wang:
"Well, much depends upon ones view what is best to drive a loudspeaker. You can drive it from a low impedance to maximise certain of the speakers distortion and compression while providing maximum electrical damping to cone/dome resonances. You can drive it from a very high Impedance thus minimising certain distortion and compressions but failing to damp any mechanical resonances electrically"
So if you have a speaker system which does not use - or depends on - driver and enclosure resonances, you can use an amp with R out -> infinity ( ideal current source), thus minimizing speaker driver distortions and compression.
GringoAudio said:
To quote Kuei Yang Wang:
"Well, much depends upon ones view what is best to drive a loudspeaker. You can drive it from a low impedance to maximise certain of the speakers distortion and compression while providing maximum electrical damping to cone/dome resonances. You can drive it from a very high Impedance thus minimising certain distortion and compressions but failing to damp any mechanical resonances electrically"
So if you have a speaker system which does not use - or depends on - driver and enclosure resonances, you can use an amp with R out -> infinity ( ideal current source), thus minimizing speaker driver distortions and compression.
grataku said:
Although I've built the gainclone, I'm still using Aleph in my main system. Changes don't come easy.
I still didn't make proper comparisons. But one thing is certain: gainclone indeed makes the music exciting and alive.As for a SS design, Aleph X without doubts makes top of a list, but gainclone has appeal to the whole different bunch of people who favour slightly different taste in music reproduction. And that's about it. No reason to be upset.
Wow, people really get upset because some other people are saying that these "gainclones" are good sounding. Well, I guess they feel bad because they spent so much on their gear and someone is telling them that $25 worth of parts will sound better. Don't get defensive, build one and see, afterall it's $25 worth of parts. I have a few, they sound nice, and even with crappy (less good) parts they don't sound bad at all if used in a good circuit.
I had a sony amp that uses the SK3875 chips (apparently LM3875s made just for sony in a different package) it sounded like *** (very bad), I ripped it apart, took the transformer, heatsink and chips and built a "gainclone" with them and a handfull of resistors and a few caps, it sounded nice, I even used the pot from the sony amp as to volume control. So it's not really the parts, but what you do with them.
I like the sound of single ended class-a than the sound of Class-AB, so that's what I use. Notice I said I prefer something to another, not that the other isn't good, Class-AB amps can sound very good, and LM1875/LM3875 based amps sometimes do, but I prefer something to them. What I find odd is that some people say they are the greatest thing around, and others say that they suck. Well, I think they're good, they're up there, but better can be made. For the price they can't be beat by anything, that's my opinion.
The only obvious flaw to a "gainclone" is that they're too boring. One IC, under a dozen other components, where's the fun in that?
I had a sony amp that uses the SK3875 chips (apparently LM3875s made just for sony in a different package) it sounded like *** (very bad), I ripped it apart, took the transformer, heatsink and chips and built a "gainclone" with them and a handfull of resistors and a few caps, it sounded nice, I even used the pot from the sony amp as to volume control. So it's not really the parts, but what you do with them.
I like the sound of single ended class-a than the sound of Class-AB, so that's what I use. Notice I said I prefer something to another, not that the other isn't good, Class-AB amps can sound very good, and LM1875/LM3875 based amps sometimes do, but I prefer something to them. What I find odd is that some people say they are the greatest thing around, and others say that they suck. Well, I think they're good, they're up there, but better can be made. For the price they can't be beat by anything, that's my opinion.
The only obvious flaw to a "gainclone" is that they're too boring. One IC, under a dozen other components, where's the fun in that?
why don't you turn what you are doing into a business?
You just need to sort some processes out...
Pick a nice website you like the look of; save the pages complete and then edit it so that it has your writing pictures and logo...
Buy a few cheap ads.
See if anyone wants to buy!
PS: What is Gainclone
You just need to sort some processes out...
Pick a nice website you like the look of; save the pages complete and then edit it so that it has your writing pictures and logo...
Buy a few cheap ads.
See if anyone wants to buy!
PS: What is Gainclone
Well, well, well,
Guys, it gets a bit boring - Gainklone (or ...clone, doesn't really matter) vs Something Else, don't you think so...
I built a similar amp (using LM3875) a few year ago, sounds nice, does not upset the neighbours, and so what - it can not really compete with my old trusty (slightly tweaked) Rotel RA-930 AX. I'm sorry, but anyone willing to argue should come to my place and listen, and I bet my shed on it , but you'll lose.
Let's not mix religion with Hi-Fi, and let us not forget that the sole purpose of all this gear is to enable us to listen to music, to the divine voices of Maria Callas or Lisa Gerrard, or the sublime and very sensual sounds of Shakti, or the eternal music of Mozart and Verdi.
Gainclone, or not so Klone (according to Thorsten L.), it is a lot of Lollipop, it's good for your car stereo and is not gonna get any better, I'm sorry. All arguments and rude comments should be addressed to me (stan_nesta), you can find my e-mail address, I believe and stop litterring this forum with bullSUGAR, we don't have to read your biased, offensive, rude and immature response to every single topic.
If one has nothing else to do, then he/she should build a low power Aleph (3, 4, 5) and concentrate on the music, then maybe you' ll see what I'm talking about.
Very Kind Regards
Stan
P.S. Fell free to send all your venom my way, I don't care.
Guys, it gets a bit boring - Gainklone (or ...clone, doesn't really matter) vs Something Else, don't you think so...
I built a similar amp (using LM3875) a few year ago, sounds nice, does not upset the neighbours, and so what - it can not really compete with my old trusty (slightly tweaked) Rotel RA-930 AX. I'm sorry, but anyone willing to argue should come to my place and listen, and I bet my shed on it , but you'll lose.
Let's not mix religion with Hi-Fi, and let us not forget that the sole purpose of all this gear is to enable us to listen to music, to the divine voices of Maria Callas or Lisa Gerrard, or the sublime and very sensual sounds of Shakti, or the eternal music of Mozart and Verdi.
Gainclone, or not so Klone (according to Thorsten L.), it is a lot of Lollipop, it's good for your car stereo and is not gonna get any better, I'm sorry. All arguments and rude comments should be addressed to me (stan_nesta), you can find my e-mail address, I believe and stop litterring this forum with bullSUGAR, we don't have to read your biased, offensive, rude and immature response to every single topic.
If one has nothing else to do, then he/she should build a low power Aleph (3, 4, 5) and concentrate on the music, then maybe you' ll see what I'm talking about.
Very Kind Regards
Stan
P.S. Fell free to send all your venom my way, I don't care.
How about i take you up on that bet Stan?
I live in SA too, i can be around in a few hrs
You probably built the old "reference design" style amp.
There are large differences between the way a inverted gainclone design and the old proven NSC design work.
Build a inv. gainclone and you might get a supprise.
I live in SA too, i can be around in a few hrs
You probably built the old "reference design" style amp.
There are large differences between the way a inverted gainclone design and the old proven NSC design work.
Build a inv. gainclone and you might get a supprise.
MWP,
I'll be glad to have this test tomorrow, how 'bout that, just send me some mail and we can organise it. And BTW, no-one thinks that all the Gainclone lovers are lying, just that they are not telling the truth and the whole truth, but let's make it simple - give me a call (my e-mail address, which you can find at the bottom of the page) and we'll organise a fair comparison with a range of speakers (most of them 4ohms) and a range of sourse equipment and we'll see.
You can play your favourite music and I will play mine, sounds fair, doesn't it, and we'll publish the results on this forum - that's a fair deal I think.
P.S. You can bring all you gear, including CD players, turntables, speakers, etc.
Kind Regards
Stan
I'll be glad to have this test tomorrow, how 'bout that, just send me some mail and we can organise it. And BTW, no-one thinks that all the Gainclone lovers are lying, just that they are not telling the truth and the whole truth, but let's make it simple - give me a call (my e-mail address, which you can find at the bottom of the page) and we'll organise a fair comparison with a range of speakers (most of them 4ohms) and a range of sourse equipment and we'll see.
You can play your favourite music and I will play mine, sounds fair, doesn't it, and we'll publish the results on this forum - that's a fair deal I think.
P.S. You can bring all you gear, including CD players, turntables, speakers, etc.
Kind Regards
Stan
Whatever, Nielsio
When one builds something, one thinks that this is the best "thing" in the whole universe, but the time is the only judge. Build something else and compare it, borrow somethig else and compare it, but be fair, and if not sure, invite your friends(which more than likely will be unbiased) and play them their favourite music, then tell us fairly what the outcome was.
BTW, my equipment selection criteria is based on 10% measurements and various tests and 90 % listening tests, which involve friends and other family members, so my judgement is based mostly on my listening experience. Despite the fact that I highly respect John Dunlavy, all his work, ideas, innovations and theories, I still let my ears be the final arbiter (which is not a contradiction anyway).
Kind Regards
Stan
When one builds something, one thinks that this is the best "thing" in the whole universe, but the time is the only judge. Build something else and compare it, borrow somethig else and compare it, but be fair, and if not sure, invite your friends(which more than likely will be unbiased) and play them their favourite music, then tell us fairly what the outcome was.
BTW, my equipment selection criteria is based on 10% measurements and various tests and 90 % listening tests, which involve friends and other family members, so my judgement is based mostly on my listening experience. Despite the fact that I highly respect John Dunlavy, all his work, ideas, innovations and theories, I still let my ears be the final arbiter (which is not a contradiction anyway).
Kind Regards
Stan
Hi Niels,
I think it looks OK, I am curious how it sounds. But the blank copper wire will corrode in the future and sound will deteriorate. Or are they insulated ? I like the re-use of old cases too, especially the old Sony cases from the seventies are very practical since you only need to have a sheet of aluminum or Inox cut in the right size for a new frontcover. The TA-1630 is such an amp. You can find them on bazaars and the like for cheap. Not to much holes and very neatlooking with a new front.
Still awaiting the parts for my clone/klone. The parts shop will open next week. Had several PCB's layed out but I didn't even like the smallest version. The signal path was too long. It is true that hardwiring this amp is the best solution. If only I could make it like Peter did...
Stan,
You're not constructive yourself either if I may say so. If you would understand the art of reading you would have seen the smiley after my remark about central heating which points out it is not meant seriously. Who am I to criticise Pass products if I never heard one ( as I said in the same sentence ) ? If such a remark causes you to call me "biased, offensive, rude and immature" you better don't read the newspapers.
Of course I am biased, just as anyone else. That's why our species is called "humans". Nevertheless I am still able to listen to tubes, Mosfet's and IC's and be objective about them. What is best is best. As an excuse I can say I am only rude if I am dealing with rednecks.
If you were a man with character you would have adressed your comment to me personally instead of speaking in general and thus polluting this thread more and giving other people the idea you're talking about them.
Who are you BTW to tell me to refrain fom comment, do you run this place ? It wouldn't hurt you either to shut up and read for a while instead of being offensive
I think it looks OK, I am curious how it sounds. But the blank copper wire will corrode in the future and sound will deteriorate. Or are they insulated ? I like the re-use of old cases too, especially the old Sony cases from the seventies are very practical since you only need to have a sheet of aluminum or Inox cut in the right size for a new frontcover. The TA-1630 is such an amp. You can find them on bazaars and the like for cheap. Not to much holes and very neatlooking with a new front.
Still awaiting the parts for my clone/klone. The parts shop will open next week. Had several PCB's layed out but I didn't even like the smallest version. The signal path was too long. It is true that hardwiring this amp is the best solution. If only I could make it like Peter did...
Stan,
You're not constructive yourself either if I may say so. If you would understand the art of reading you would have seen the smiley after my remark about central heating which points out it is not meant seriously. Who am I to criticise Pass products if I never heard one ( as I said in the same sentence ) ? If such a remark causes you to call me "biased, offensive, rude and immature" you better don't read the newspapers.
Of course I am biased, just as anyone else. That's why our species is called "humans". Nevertheless I am still able to listen to tubes, Mosfet's and IC's and be objective about them. What is best is best. As an excuse I can say I am only rude if I am dealing with rednecks.
If you were a man with character you would have adressed your comment to me personally instead of speaking in general and thus polluting this thread more and giving other people the idea you're talking about them.
Who are you BTW to tell me to refrain fom comment, do you run this place ? It wouldn't hurt you either to shut up and read for a while instead of being offensive
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.